Why do you think many service members aren't interested in college nowadays?

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 19:45:04 -0500

Every time I mention college to soldiers they make excuses for why they can't do it. Everyone wants to go to military schools, but not something that'll help them post military. We have every opportunity to get an education before we get out (Tuition Assistance), but many seem to not be interested.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Jan 8 at 2020 7:47 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 19:47:17 -0500

I am sorry that this is the case (seemingly so) in the Army. It isn't so in the AF or it certainly wasn't a couple of years ago. I think if the Army stressed, as the AF does, how quickly you can get an associates degree (CCAF) more might be willing.

Response by PO3 Phyllis Maynard made Jan 8 at 2020 7:59 PM

PO3 Phyllis Maynard — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 19:59:52 -0500

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member I don't know the interactions servicemen have encountered with colleges. But as a veteran and then my son following me, the college system as was our experience, does discriminate against us as a class of people. In summary, in our experience, professors, counselors, internships, etc. would circumvent the services they were suppose to do to help us, down grade our grades, etc. because they without shame declared we were getting something for nothing and they did not owe us anything. Those of us who managed to graduate never got the real benefit of Veteran's preference or our children who derived college benefits from our disabilities were badly treated. Research this and talk to advocates that can bring this to the Veteran's Liasion in the White House. The DAV has a liaison at that level.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2020 8:03 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 20:03:14 -0500

My experience has been somewhat different. Before I went to the dark side I think all of my last squad except for one was in school or had already earned their degree. One was even working on his Master’s. Personally, I was able to pay for an Associate’s and Bachelor’s degree with TA before I left the Army the first time. During my break in service I earned another Assoc. and Bachelor’s using my GI Bill. Then after I commisioned I attended a fully funded doctorate program. If you serve long enough the Army will use you up so you might as well use them back.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2020 8:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 20:50:39 -0500

It's an organizational cultural issue. If the leadership or someone influential isn't motivating Soldiers to attend college, many won't care and will just focus on the things they know their leaders care more about. Genuine leadership emphasis plays a large role in inspiring others. In any organization I'm in, I become known as "that NCO" who constantly engages with Soldiers on their academic goals and in-progress courses.

It's about creating a culture of learning, which is exactly what the Army wants, according to the Army Continuing Education System regulating (AR 621-5).

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2020 9:26 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 21:26:44 -0500

Kind of reminds me of when I went to MEPS the last time to see the eye specialist to get my waiver. A young kid was going to see the eye specialist as well. Kid has some college credits but dropped out and decides to join the army. Decides he’s going 11B. I said “so what are you going to do for a career?” He says “the army” and I said, “you’re in the your near mid 20’s. What after the infantry? What if you get hurt and can’t stay infantry? What is your long term goal in 10 years? He couldn’t answer it.

I for one don’t think college is for everyone, but I wish more folks would take advantage of the learning and education opportunities the military offers. I wish we as a society not just as a service honored and respected education more.

I try to speak with every enlisted soldier I come into contact with at drills about their long term career goals and education goals. I would be in school now probably for a masters in nursing or PsyD if I could afford it and had the ability to do it and work full time. I love education.

Response by SFC Jeffery Hodgkinson made Jan 8 at 2020 9:37 PM

SFC Jeffery Hodgkinson — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 21:37:20 -0500

To many people have degrees and the market is flooded with book smart people. What is in high demand is people with a vocational skill, i.e. carpentry, automotive mechanics, sheetmetal workers....

Response by PFC Teiana Po made Jan 8 at 2020 9:39 PM

PFC Teiana Po — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 21:39:56 -0500

I know I was not ready. Once I did go I took to many breaks. Now I have 6 classes left.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2020 10:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 22:28:45 -0500

What's even more ironic is everyone says it's too hard to go to college in the Army and they'll wait to go when they get out. Because somehow it's easier to go to college full time with a part time job, car payment, and dependents

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 8 at 2020 10:51 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 22:51:59 -0500

A lot of young folks are eschewing college education and reject the "traditional" way of reaching success as we know it. They also want to define success differently than "we" do, although I have yet to hear any good alternatives what they are rebelling from.

Response by Lt Col Leslie Bryant made Jan 8 at 2020 11:46 PM

Lt Col Leslie Bryant — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 23:46:09 -0500

When you use the GI Bill, do some real research as to whether the degree you are choosing is marketable. After 10 years of working international health and emergencies and disasters without a Master of Public Health degree; I decided to pursue a Master of Public Health in International Health and Development degree. Since leaving the USAF, at age 50, I have never been hireable despite 28 yrs in the USAF; 2 Bachelors and 4 Masters degrees; a new Masters with new skills; 10 yrs in International Health and experience in 4 career fields to include nursing, policing, forensics and intelligence. Many tell me it’s that I’m over qualified; the reality is it’s AGEISM which is alive and well in US! Did I have a degree do over would have gotten a Masters in Nursing or Master in Emergency and Disaster. Despite ageism, those would likely have been more marketable skills.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Jan 9 at 2020 6:48 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 06:48:18 -0500

The quality of output from too many colleges and universities is substandard. Also, the only way to learn in life is not from a college or university. This is the paradigm we have lived with for a hundred or more years. College is becoming a box check for too many. I need this degree to get that job so off I go. It is not doing a great job at educating people.

There are many that will excel in a college/university there are many others that will not. The notion that a degree makes you smarter, more talented etc. is simply false. There are careers you absolutely need higher education for such as Doctors, lawyers, engineers etc. Many of these degrees being conferred now are only lining the pockets of colleges and universities and are not really educating people.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2020 7:58 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 07:58:38 -0500

Many of my friends from college wish they didn't get their degrees because they were not worth the time and money put into them. College for the sake of college doesn't always add value. That could be how your troops see it.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Jan 9 at 2020 8:34 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 08:34:36 -0500

I recently wrote a Master's thesis on generational differences in communications methodology and one of the tidbits of research I found was that Gen Zer's (IGen) are far less interested in generalized education and far more interested in focused, technical training that prepares them for a career. I think experiencing their parents and older siblings deal with the burden of college debt while not seeing a significant salary increase has had a tremendous impact on younger generations. They no longer see college as necessarily a pathway to success, but rather an expensive, yet mostly ineffectual time sink.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2020 9:19 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 09:19:07 -0500

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t use TA, Especially single sm’s. They say they want to stay in 20+ years but don’t realize a degree is almost necessary to get above SFC

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Jan 9 at 2020 9:37 AM

LCDR Joshua Gillespie — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 09:37:48 -0500

I think young people in general, are questioning the value of a traditional degree. Think of it this way: why go $100,000+ in debt just to compete for a job that pays $40k-$50k for the first five years, only to lose it in year two to a "newer model", and end up working for minimum wage? The alternative, made more attractive by a variety of state programs, is to get a technical certification or associate's degree that will allow one to enter a profitable trade...such as HVAC or utility work. Might be harder to "get in"...but once there, it's vastly easier to stay. Add into the equation that all reports seem to be indicating severe shortfalls in skilled labor...and it's even less difficult of a choice. I have a four year old child...I went to the Academy. If it hadn't been for the Navy, I'd have had to borrow or work my way through college. Even with that "prestigious" degree, my first job coming out of the Navy as a former officer was as a desk clerk at a hotel making just over minimum wages. I went from that into being a night watchman...for even lower wages (but less hassle), then finally into construction, before eventually coming back into the Navy. If my son wants to get a degree, I'll help him all I can...but I hope he's smarter than his father, and goes the Trades route.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Jan 9 at 2020 6:37 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 18:37:08 -0500

higher educations are in question these days. Are students being educated to problem solve to meet the challenges of this generation or are they being indoctrinated for social justice demonstrations and historically failed marxist ideologies

Response by MSG Brandon Lloyd made Jan 10 at 2020 2:19 AM

MSG Brandon Lloyd — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 02:19:32 -0500

I went to college and played football before the army and finished 2 post grad degrees during my 17 years. I think the easy answer to that question is the right one. I was severely wounded twice and had to come to terms with early retirement and losing everything I knew. It’s no secret the issues our generation is having after coming home and trying to reintegrate into our families, then our community and eventually civilian society as a whole.
I couldn’t imagine having to put myself in a situation where I was on a college campus with thousands of today’s young people. There is such a disconnect between post 9-11 veterans and college aged kids these days. I could go on forever about why but it boils down to we have been fighting wars or getting trained and ready to go back and fight wars for over 18 years. The majority of young people today were so young when it all started that it’s not something they ever think about because they have no reason to.
For a lot of veterans trying to get an education in a public university is an overwhelming thought. Like trying to make a specific point To a person who has no idea what language your speaking.

Response by SGT(P) Christopher Poole made Jan 10 at 2020 3:43 AM

SGT(P) Christopher Poole — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 03:43:43 -0500

Depending on the unit, honestly SSG, some leadership positions don’t offer the time or try to work with soldiers who are in school to help give a “work”/“school” balance.

Granted our job comes first, always, but there are some units and leadership positions who would preach “Go to school” and not do a thing to help a soldier out when a soldier enrolls. So for some soldiers in MOS that require a lot of time, (such as Mechanics, etc.), they push it to the side because some leadership positions don’t make it seem important as it really is. (I’m speaking from what I’ve seen so far)

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2020 4:35 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:35:25 -0500

To add to some of the great responses already posted, going to college while in active duty he hard. It requires a level of resiliency and planning that many people simply aren’t interested in. There were many times that I had to forgo social gatherings and other weekend activities in order to study for tests and complete projects.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2020 11:15 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:15:37 -0400

After ten years of some of the best times in my life, the Air Force retired me due to medical issues. As a condition of my retirement, the VA offered to pay for college through their Vocational Rehabilitation program. All of my tuition, books and supplies were covered, and they paid me a monthly stipend to go to school. I was in a position to go to school full time, and finished my bachelor’s degree in management information systems with the University of West Florida in 2006.
College was a piece of cake compared to military service. Not academically. Any written test I took in the Air Force was multiple choice over information I had just seen, and I never had to write a thirty page term paper in the military. It was the mechanistic structure of military service that made it a challenge. You had to dress like everyone else and you had to act like everyone else, and you had to be on time and on point and on target 24/7. And that’s exactly the kind of structure and discipline we all signed up for.
Once I got to college, though, I realized a significant paradigm shift. I could show up late and leave early. And no one was worried if I was there or not. The professors and staff were always available and willing to help, but the impetus was entirely on me to do the work. There was no team, and the only mission was for me to graduate.
As a society, we have convinced ourselves that a person needs a college degree to have a good job, that the only reason to go to college is greater employability. And we have intimidated ourselves into thinking it’s exceedingly difficult. Make no mistake; college was not easy. It was a ton of studying, writing, a significant outlay of work and time, and maintaining focus through four years on a degree just over the horizon requires a lot of discipline. But it is no harder than what trained and experienced troops do on a daily basis. As leaders, as NCOs and officers, we need to relay to our subordinates that the rumors they hear about college are no different than the rumors we all heard about Basic Training.