Why does QMP message say soldier has 7 months to get out but it's actually 6 or less by time of notification?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 02:59:31 -0400

I was notified May 3rd that I have till 1 November to leave the service and never be able to serve again due to overweight 3 years ago. With 60 days saved leave that puts me at 4 months to find a new career after serving 11 years.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 7:18 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 07:18:37 -0400

So they are booting you because you failed height and weight 3 years ago? Nothing else to it? Are you in compliance now? How are your recent NCOERs? That sounds absurd that they would QMP someone because of height and weight 3 years ago.

Response by CSM David Heidke made May 18 at 2016 8:58 AM

CSM David Heidke — Wed, 18 May 2016 08:58:36 -0400

Sergeant, sorry to hear of your predicament. It seems like you're at the end of the "appeal" process and you need to make final arrangements.

I would suggest that you find a way to transfer to the Reserves so that you can continue to earn toward your retirement. I wouldn't want to waste 11 years of active duty points. Even if you earned minimal Reserve points, your pension would be double mine.

Don't discount this.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 18 at 2016 9:40 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Wed, 18 May 2016 09:40:03 -0400

Look at http://www.portioncontroller.com an external lap band !Medicare approved though I don't know if the svcs accept iit or if it'd do you any good at present given your circumstances though you might try. The nelts are used with a modified Atkins diet they must ONLY be adjusted by trained clinicians never the patient, they got me from 342 lbs to about 257 lbs now thankfully. Also if you haven't tried it look at doing aikido a very aerobic martial art that also very seriously helped me lose all that weight as well, honest.

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Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made May 18 at 2016 3:45 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Wed, 18 May 2016 15:45:24 -0400

Look for a federal job. What is your MOS?

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 4:01 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 16:01:52 -0400

In a company I worked for they tell about a group who returned from lunch to find pink slips on their desk. The had until the end of the day.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 6:19 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:19:47 -0400

That NCOER should have been thrown out. Even under the old system, you stated if the profile hindered duty performance or not. Since you met medical retention standards, received a P2 (L), and authorized to take an alternate event, the rater should not have put that you have a permanent profile for running.
Did you submit an appeal? A sister company had two selected, both appealed and one was granted.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 6:19 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:19:52 -0400

Was that the only time you didn't meet standards or was there multiple occasions or other reasons they're taking into consideration?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 6:26 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:26:16 -0400

Are you in the same grade as you were when you were not in compliance with 600-9 3 years ago. The 4 block at the bottom of that NCOER would do it. You fall right into what QMP was designed to do. It's not what ya want to hear, but it is what the mandate is? I too am sorry to hear that you were picked to be separated. You were given some advise about possibly the reserves. It's worth a shot. If you crossed over you could MOB and earn active retirement as well. So it is still possible to get to retirement, it just might take longer than you expected. Good luck as you transition.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 6:27 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:27:02 -0400

The RE-4 is easier to get waivered with the National Guard. Each state is different, but my Career Counselors told me that is the best route for QMP Soldiers that want to continue to serve. Find a National Guard recruiter in the state you are going to reside in. You do get discharged before you can submitted for the waiver though, but it queued up and ready to go.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 6:39 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:39:40 -0400

Use the G.I. Bill and please go to school. Try to focus on a 21st century career will not end a dead-end.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made May 18 at 2016 6:42 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:42:22 -0400

I'm sorry to hear that SSG Santana. That's part of the Army that I don't miss at all. Although I wasn't in your predicament, I can offer a few recommendations.

First, file for VA disability for whatever medical, including psychological, conditions you've been treated for during your 11 years of service. If you've ignored taking care of your medical conditions, now is the time to rectify that. Even if active duty medical personnel don't feel compelled to treat your symptoms in a way you deem appropriate, you're still considered presumptive for issues that arise within 12 months after your separation. Make sure your symptoms (knee pain, back pain, depression, anxiety, headaches, acid reflux, etc.,) are documented in your medical record before you leave the service.

I didn't have the GI Bill offered back in 1978 when I enlisted. I entered between the old GI Bill and the new one. Anyway, after being found with 20% va service-connected disability, the va agreed to pay my way through college. I received an associated and bachelors via Vocational Rehabilitation. Then I earned a Masters, but the VA paid for that. Under VOC REHAB, the VA not only pays for the college tuition, books, paper, pencils, calculators, computer software, etc., they also pay us to go to school. The amount you receive depends on the amount of hours you attend and how many dependents you have.

Next, don't expect employers or anyone else to give you anything for your service. I retired an SFC in 2000 with many years of experience, but without the degrees it didn't matter. They want all the perks of military service (on time, hard worker, dependable, disciplined, etc.,) but they aren't paying extra for those traits and characteristics. Keep your head up and drive on. Keep going to school no matter what!

Last, never give up!! I admit, it was hard working full time, being a husband, father, homeowner, and student, but I did it. If I can (and millions of others do it all the time), so can you my brother!

God bless you and your family!!

Response by COL Jon Thompson made May 18 at 2016 6:44 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:44:05 -0400

I am sorry to hear about this. Unfortunately this is what the Army is going through now as we continue to downsize. I was passed over for promotion to Major in 1995 totally unexpected so I had to find a new civilian career. Here is my advice. I don't think you have to take the leave and can sell that back to the government. That would give you those two additional months of looking for a career. You would also have that little nest egg to help you when the time is up. Second, I would start looking for a job right away and I would tell you to expand your horizons to consider things you may not have thought about before. I went back to Chicago from Alaska with no job and ended up working for Hertz Rent a Car as a manager. My leadership experience led to me getting promoted to the next level of management over more senior managers only 7 months later. When I left there 11 years later to work for the Army, I was the number two person at one of the company's largest operations. Spend your remaining time wisely. I will end by saying that you may be torn for the last few months between your duties to the Army and the transition. The transition has to be your number one priority so make sure you have good balance.

Response by SFC(P) John McLaughlin made May 18 at 2016 6:49 PM

SFC(P) John McLaughlin — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:49:49 -0400

That's QMP for you. I have seen how the QMP is selective in its process. I've witnessed from SGTs to SGMs who should have been booted but on how they are rated and by whom; its part of the good ole boys club. But they QMP soldiers who had a minor fraction early in their career. While QMP is needed to an extent it does a disservice to a lot of good soldiers. Leadership is failing at an alarming rate.

Response by SFC(P) John McLaughlin made May 18 at 2016 6:54 PM

SFC(P) John McLaughlin — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:54:43 -0400

Are they going to give you an RE-1/2/3 at a minimum or an RE-4?

Response by TSgt Jennifer Disch made May 18 at 2016 7:20 PM

TSgt Jennifer Disch — Wed, 18 May 2016 19:20:59 -0400

Focus on the future. Get copies of everything! Make sure you get your PIF. Sign up for TAP classes. Find out about transportation entitlements. See if you can get a letter stating you are separating (personnel) and get on USAjobs. You served and don't look back. Congrats and don't let this jade you!!!!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 7:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 19:28:02 -0400

We flag Soldiers for stupid sh*t like this as if it is going to motivate them. Can the SM do the job? If yes, they stay.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 9:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 21:14:38 -0400

This should put everyone on notice. If you have "bad paper" in your records, you should start working on plan B post haste. Too late for you, SSG Santana, but maybe others can learn from your situation.

Response by Jason O'Toole made May 18 at 2016 9:26 PM

Jason O'Toole — Wed, 18 May 2016 21:26:49 -0400

Sorry to see how you are being treated. But at least you got 11 years. I tried to enlist but due to no fault of my own (congenital cataracts) was denied even though I scored top 2% on ASVAB and vision was correctable to 20/20 and I had some college. Military life was all I knew. I was an Air Force brat, then a Marine brat and finally a Navy brat. Anyway I wish I could have gotten any time as active duty so I am jealous. Keep your head up, the civilian world isn't that bad. Thanks for the 11 years that you safeguarded my freedom.

Response by SFC Joe Ping made May 18 at 2016 10:44 PM

SFC Joe Ping — Wed, 18 May 2016 22:44:05 -0400

Sounds like you pissed your senior evaluator off

Response by SPC Kortney Kistler made May 18 at 2016 10:54 PM

SPC Kortney Kistler — Wed, 18 May 2016 22:54:53 -0400

Don't forget to file for unemployment when your leave runs out. Most states you can draw for six months. It's money you have earned, don't be afraid to take advantage of it. I know plenty of joes that didn't know they could do that when terminal leave ran out. They ended up spending their savings trying to stay on top of things before they settled back into civilian life.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 11:26 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 23:26:33 -0400

This is BS. Whoever marked your NCOER as marginal is what is screwing you. How can you have three success one excellence and one needs improvement and be a marginal? They don't see it as you were over weight but that you had a bad NCOER. Have you appealed?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 7:58 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 07:58:11 -0400

Sounds to me that you were notified three years ago to get within army standards or risk separation from the service. If you are still not in compliance, you choose the latter. The SFL-TAL will be a great asset during you transition. You should enroll quickly and they will walk you through all you options and benefits. Separating honorable after 11 years is still a remarkable achievement. You might find yourself better suited for civilian positions that allow you to continue towards a retirement.

Response by SFC Jimmy Phillips made May 19 at 2016 2:50 PM

SFC Jimmy Phillips — Thu, 19 May 2016 14:50:30 -0400

I am sure they are looking at a much bigger picture, ratings over the last three years, pt scores, current height and weight and body fat. Plus the 11 year Staff Sergeant bit, and your promotability potential. If any of those don't look good they are cleaning up the ranks and making room for personnel who should be promoted and have future promotability potential.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 2:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 14:50:35 -0400

Unless you are not passing PT Sergeant or having any medical impediment that might red flag you to your duty/s I don't see other reason this might had happen due to either software or documentation or legal interpretation incompetence in part of home office. I am no legal advisor nor linked to any administrative personnel but it don't take a rocket scientist to see their is an error or at least misuse of information or breach of contract. I strongly recommend to seat down with your unit's legal advisor, keep your command inform at all time and avoid any outside legal movement since as an active duty member you cannot take any legal action against federal government ruling (Federal Tort Claims Act). If you get too impatience or too hasty you might blow any chances of getting the right help. If your unit does not resolve your issue follow always the chain of command, we are not civilians were we can just jump hoops ignoring what is ahead of us. This might stands as an Grievances: Article 138 Complaint but you must follow the proper procedure and give your command the opportunity to solve the issue, that means from bottom to top.
If anything else I am most certain there are other ways to accommodate a loyal and long term service member like yourself into a different MOS or service component. Meaning talk to your retention office and make proper arrangements.

Good luck SSG
Regards

Response by MAJ Daniel Buchholz made May 19 at 2016 9:43 PM

MAJ Daniel Buchholz — Thu, 19 May 2016 21:43:54 -0400

A "Marginal" from your Rater and a 4 and a 3 from your Senior Rater? The moment that NCOER hit HRC you were being set up on a hit list in the current environment. If your 1SG, CDR, and SGM cleared this through without giving you a heads up on the risk, they did you wrong.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 9:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 May 2016 21:58:12 -0400

I have the same situation. I was notified May 16 and have the bloody same date (November 1) to leave. I don't understand it, either.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 11:28 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 11:28:57 -0400

SSG Santana's question is still unanswered. Why do we have less than seven months to complete outprocessing and get out. Our due date is November 1.

Response by Cpl Elijah Gordon made May 20 at 2016 11:45 AM

Cpl Elijah Gordon — Fri, 20 May 2016 11:45:25 -0400

But Sarge....

Response by SPC Steven Garcia made May 20 at 2016 12:10 PM

SPC Steven Garcia — Fri, 20 May 2016 12:10:02 -0400

I'd hate to see you throw away 11 years. Get the weight off (stay away from sugar) and see if you can go into the reserves or guard. If you can go IRR, that'll buy you time, time that'll allow you to lose weight and transition into the reserve or guard. Once in the reserve or guard, do online courses. The courses will help to grow your retirement. Take care.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 1:10 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 13:10:54 -0400

Can they do a medical evaluation board if you are on a permanent medical profile? At least you would get severance pay before you get your VA claim situated. http://www.wtc.army.mil/modules/soldier/s6-medicalBoards.html

Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) and Physical Evaluation Board (PEB)

The mission of the Warrior Transition Command (WTC) is to develop, coordinate and integrate the Army's Warrior Care and Transition Program (WCTP) for wounded, ill and injured Soldiers, Veterans and their Families or Caregivers to promote success in the force or civilian life.

Response by SPC Gerald Stacy made May 20 at 2016 1:19 PM

SPC Gerald Stacy — Fri, 20 May 2016 13:19:51 -0400

This junk is the reason that I embraced my ETS with open arms. My last unit had a perpetual E-1 who could never make the standard to get his rank and didn't care. Stuck around for years at the same rank while others were being chaptered for silly reasons in comparison. Meanwhile the Soldiers that worked hard and made the occasional honest mistakes because they put themselves out there more often were slapped with article 15's at the first opportunity.

Response by Sgt Tom Beard made May 20 at 2016 1:24 PM

Sgt Tom Beard — Fri, 20 May 2016 13:24:21 -0400

Hell, join the USAF my second to last NCOIC was Fat Boyed out of the Army. They gave him an extra stripe and everything...

Response by PO2 Dave Ackerman made May 20 at 2016 2:46 PM

PO2 Dave Ackerman — Fri, 20 May 2016 14:46:58 -0400

Maybe it's the Ht/Wt issue coupled with the permanent running profile. Kind of hard to be a fighting man when you are not able to run. I wish you the best of luck in your transition.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 4:48 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 16:48:29 -0400

SSG,

I apologize for my lack of compassion for your situation, although I do hope you are able to find a job and transition well into the civilian world or reserves.

Why should people who have never been flagged for overweight, UCMJ, etc have to compete with someone who has in the time of a draw down? Sorry to say, but that's just the bottom line when you are cutting personnel. You don't stack up to those that never were in that situation. It's nothing personal, and we all make mistakes, but some mistakes will cost you your military career during an intense draw down.

That's not the people we are trying to retain in the Army, I'm sorry.

EDIT: Lastly, the report is subjective. Even if you had passed ABCP, they still could have mentioned that you did NOT pass ABCP during the rating period. They could comment to the effect that you were not always in compliance or something, and be within their right.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 6:18 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 18:18:42 -0400

my only responce is get in shape

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 6:28 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 18:28:41 -0400

reserveres or gaurds get your shit together because we floate sms no matter wha, get in shape, do what is right and no problebelms

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 6:29 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 18:29:15 -0400

3 years after the fact?!? Piss poor

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 8:45 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 20:45:22 -0400

Sergeant,
Make sure you are doing the Soldier for life ACAP mandatory program. It is a lengthy process and with only four months left in the Army your time is very short to accomplish everything in the program. With that being said you also have your CIF, medical physical and everything else in the clearing process that you have to do to reenter the civilian world. BLUF: you do not have much time for anything else, but taking care of you. At this point it is all about you. Your unit should not be counting on you to work all day and expect you to accomplish everything you need to do for yourself on your personal time.

1SG Thomas W. Graham

Response by CW3 Steven Prestridge made May 20 at 2016 10:36 PM

CW3 Steven Prestridge — Fri, 20 May 2016 22:36:48 -0400

Tell them you're transsexual. The ask that the BF% be recalculated under female standards. If that doesn't work, tell them they're bigots. They'll back down.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2016 11:30 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 May 2016 23:30:44 -0400

You definitely need to contact your local ARCC (Army Reserve Career Counselor) to look at continuing your career in the Reserves. They will be able to do one of two things for you. Option A is to reenlist you into the TPU program as a drilling Reservist with a unit. Option B is to reenlist you into the IRR. There are advantages to moving to a TPU position. As a drilling Reservist, you can continue your career and progress. Additionally there are programs available to you such as P3 which will assist you in landing civilian employment. Option B is a good one to consider if you are not ready to commit to a TPU position. It will offer you the chance to enter a TPU position when you feel you are ready but still offer progression in the IRR. If you have trouble meeting with an ARCC at your current duty station, feel free to contact me and I'll help you make the contact you need.

Response by CW3 Tom Sheahan made May 20 at 2016 11:31 PM

CW3 Tom Sheahan — Fri, 20 May 2016 23:31:11 -0400

Question for you, did you pass the Tape Test??

Response by SPC Robert Conway made May 20 at 2016 11:40 PM

SPC Robert Conway — Fri, 20 May 2016 23:40:43 -0400

Yet another reason why 600-9 is a piece of crap. A length of plastic should not be the measurement of what makes a good soldier.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 8:12 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 May 2016 08:12:27 -0400

Did they change QMP? You should have been given a one shot 60 day appeal window on a DA 4941. Letters of endorsement from current CSM and chain are often persuasive, but normally QMP selects can not muster those because they deserve to actually go. In the direct appeal you can attack inappropriate language on the NCOER like the profile discussion (called a material error appeal)but most importantly you must emphasis your ongoing and increasing value to the organization(improved performance appeal). I have heard nothing about the Soldier's response on the 4941 being eliminated. Go back to legal assistance and ask to speak to the NCOIC and OIC; ask them to help with these appeals. If they say they don't understand how to help, ask if they will call TDS and set you up to meet with a Judge Advocate experienced in boards, eliminations and rebuttals.

Response by 1SG Clevan Wilson made May 21 at 2016 12:39 PM

1SG Clevan Wilson — Sat, 21 May 2016 12:39:20 -0400

Bad business, just plain wrong!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 2:21 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 May 2016 14:21:59 -0400

The reg reads "By the first day of the seventh month after notification." If you are notified at the end of one month it can be very close to 6 actual months.

Response by SGT Jason McVey made May 21 at 2016 5:09 PM

SGT Jason McVey — Sat, 21 May 2016 17:09:45 -0400

Ok so I have several things to bring up.

I want to start off with a quote I heard a marine say: "I run a 270 pft what the fuck does it matter what my body mass index is!"

First is this really true? Is he really getting kicked out 3 years after the fact? Is there more to this story?

Second is he currently over weight and body fat? If not then FO

Why is the army still using the rape method you can not convince me that it is accurate. I have seen brick shit houses that score 300 on the apft with a six pack weighing 240 and barely pass tape. They are straight up studs and yet some dip shit barely passing his apft smoking 3 packs a day and weights all of 140 is AOK by the army really WTF. That is bullshit and we all know it.

It's time for a more accurate system or for that matter fuck height and weight and just base keeping a soldier off his PT score

If you want to have height and weight fine but have the common god dang sense to realize if a guy has a 296 pt score he's in awesome shape no matter what the scale and tape says.

We as human beings are evolving. I don't believe we came from monkeys but we are getting bigger and stronger and faster. Yes there are plenty that are getting fatter but that supports my point.
In the food we eat today there are all sorts of antibiotics steroids and other chemicals. Yeah no shit we are bigger, I wonder why(sarcasm) and we can be stronger and faster if we train to be.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 6:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 May 2016 18:19:25 -0400

You was given 3 years to lose weight you chose not to do it now you choose to blame the military for something that is your responsibility your professional career it's just that it may sound mean but it's not when given opportunity to better yourself and you chose not to I would like to know why you didn't choose to lose weight in 3 years with all the threats that came within those three years you knew this day was coming those with choices you decided to make now you have to live with it and then your next career do the things that will improve it

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 9:58 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 May 2016 21:58:42 -0400

This is not matter of leadership in the military side. Not so many major operations going on and congress wants to get rid off people to save money. They will take any excuse to kick people out. That is how our government is taking care of service members. Throwing them out like they are disposable.

Response by SFC James Bashaw made May 21 at 2016 10:50 PM

SFC James Bashaw — Sat, 21 May 2016 22:50:19 -0400

I haven't verified my membership so you won't be able to find me on rally point. I retired after 23+ years of service. The last four or five years, I was constantly fighting the overweight issue after I was assigned to a TRADOC unit (long hours and piss poor PT program = weight problems). I still had to deal the regulations and meet the minimum qualifications. With that said, I don't know your entire history so I can't comment on your case specifically. Your leadership can't ignore US Army policy nor do they have control over the QMP board. The QMP board like the promotion board doesn't always have all the information they should have when they make decisions about the future of a soldier. They act based on the information they have and make decisions the best they can. Remember, you have 4 months before you are looking to find a new career. Get every medical issue documented and your dental taken care of. I don't know your MOS but make sure your get the resume class and look for external resources (Wounded warrior program and welcome home resumes) to prepare yourself for the future. It is a fact of life that the democrats downsize the military and the republicans reward it. If your military career is over, take advantage of everything you can and move on.

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made May 21 at 2016 11:28 PM

LCpl Steve Smith — Sat, 21 May 2016 23:28:22 -0400

You my friend getting the Big Green Weenie and I bet they didn't even offer to give you a reach around. It do to Downsizing, Every time they do rapid downsizing after war anything and everything negative in your SRB is looked at. It's a very Shitty Deal. I was in during Clinton taking office and seen them looking at SRBs to Holt reenlistment's and offering people Early out retirements and other early out packages. now are they discharging you Honorably? or are they kicking you out under something different? pg 11's over stupid shit wreck great personnel's careers. Have they forgotten Lifers is what keeps the boots from shooting themselves in the foot or putting the Claymore the wrong way.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2016 12:09 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 May 2016 00:09:40 -0400

Wow, competence should have been an excellence. 2 Exc and 1 marginal. This NCOER doesn't make sense. The CSM /1SG should have vetted this. The senior rater comments make no sense either. A 4 block AND rated as the top section in the platoon? What is going on with the command?

This NCOER should have been thrown out if the one before and after are compared in opposite performance. This would identify a biased leadership. Any board would have recognized this. There has got to be something else not mentioned that cause the QMP board decision.

Response by Nicole Marie made May 22 at 2016 1:08 AM

Nicole Marie — Sun, 22 May 2016 01:08:04 -0400

The army is cleaning house. So many soldiers are getting booted out. My husband just went through the same thing. They got rid of his helicopter and made getting promoted to CW3 almost impossible. They transitioned many Kiowa pilots but we all know they are doomed when promotion rolls around since they are far behind the original men and women in whatever aircraft they were transitioned to. My husband was four months short of 15 years. We know all too well how it feels to be kicked in the teeth. Him more than me. Roll with the punches, life has something better planned for you so don't stress.

Response by SPC Christopher Harvey made May 22 at 2016 1:42 AM

SPC Christopher Harvey — Sun, 22 May 2016 01:42:16 -0400

man its pretty easy to stay within weight while in the military PT alone is forced weightloss. Im not going to bash you but this is your fault no one elses. Hopefully your soldiers see you as an example and strive to not be overweight.

Response by 1SG John Aaron made May 22 at 2016 8:28 AM

1SG John Aaron — Sun, 22 May 2016 08:28:28 -0400

There has got to be more to this story, being enrolled in the weight control program three years ago and one poor NCOER isn't going to automatically qualify a Soldier for QMP.

Response by CPT Craig Reuscher made May 22 at 2016 12:18 PM

CPT Craig Reuscher — Sun, 22 May 2016 12:18:15 -0400

I'm confident you knew the Ht/Wt/Fitness standards within that 3 year period...likely earlier on than later. As an NCO; rather, ESPECIALLY, as an NCO you have little excuse in this situation since you are a standard bearer. I have little empathy for you in this circumstance. Under my Command and the guidance of a remarkable 1SG we took a Company from a 185 avg on the APFT and 38% overweight to a unit with a 295 PT avg and 0 overweights...separating none! However, we abided by regulations, policy and applied swift leadership principles to develop the best leaders possible from E-1 to O-3 in a Company of 140+ soldiers. Many of those E-4's/-5's are now E-7's/-8's or officers. Best of luck to you!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2016 12:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 May 2016 12:31:22 -0400

SSG if you have any questions about how to put together a federal resume let me know. Maybe I can help you out. Service doesn't have to end when you take off the uniform.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made May 22 at 2016 8:58 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Sun, 22 May 2016 20:58:13 -0400

Depending on your state, you can probably start with it's department of corrections within a couple of months of separation, if you start on it now. It's not glorious, and to be quite honest, it frequently sucks, but if you have patience and drive, you can have a somewhat entertaining career. And then there is the federal system, and they pay better etc.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2016 12:00 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 May 2016 00:00:12 -0400

How about don't be fat. You are owed nothing from anyone, especially the military. I am assuming you were an NCO when flagged, so being out of standards is unacceptable and degrades the backbone of the military. Bye Felicia.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2016 5:31 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 May 2016 05:31:07 -0400

I don't know my unit went to reset everytime the 1sg changed. so myself and other solders got lucky I guess

Response by SFC Daniel Corbett made May 23 at 2016 6:12 AM

SFC Daniel Corbett — Mon, 23 May 2016 06:12:14 -0400

Bottom line here is simple: The Army is drawing down and they are looking for ANY reason to show a Soldier the door. They have been directed to drop 40,000 Soldiers. This is their plan to do it. Those of you who have been in longer than one Presidency will remember: Democrats ALWAYS cut expenses by cutting the Military first. Then a Republican comes along and rebuilds it. Remember Carter followed by Reagan? Same thing. Many careers were cut short for stupid stuff.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2016 6:35 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 May 2016 06:35:45 -0400

Sorry to hear that. I had to have surgery twice and because of that I got passed over for promotion until after I was fully healed. By the time I was i didn't have enough time left to make rank and ended up RST ' ing. I spoke with a recruiter and rolled over into the IRR and then transitioned into the reserves. I can now do my last 5 years and get my retirement. Don't know if this helps but it's worth a shot.

Response by CSM James Winslow made May 23 at 2016 7:55 AM

CSM James Winslow — Mon, 23 May 2016 07:55:05 -0400

Instead of being miserable about your fate, I would get active and embrace the inevitable- to survive the first 6 mos you are going to need some cash reserves and a steady nerve. Check and see if you can cash in the 60 days and stay until the end- this will give you an extra months' pay (after taxes). The 180 days will be the minimum you need to process for the medical portion of the VA. Do a Resume (have it professionally done (about $200)), because you really don't have time to screw with it. Start applying for jobs now through USAJobs, and be prepared to relocate- your Spouse will have to get busy on the housing side of it if you live in quarters. I am sure the military will give you your final move, so there is no fear of extra outlay there. If your spouse doesn't work, it would be time for her to find something (if that is possible). This is where the learned talent of backwards planning kicks in. There is a lot to do, and I wouldn't really plan on working the first month or two after you get out- you will need time to decompress. Don't forget to check if you are eligible for unemployment from the State too. And start downsizing. If you have any toys (like a Motorcycle, boat or any of the other things we all have) figure out how to make it cost nothing until you can afford to pay for it (insurance). Sell if necessary.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made May 23 at 2016 10:15 AM

1SG Harold Piet — Mon, 23 May 2016 10:15:24 -0400

Not to be too judgmental and offend anyone. Keeping in mind that as a 1SG, I always am offending someone. He was QMP'D because of our politicians decision to draw down. Obviously the QMP board looks across the entire group of people and by MOS. He is an E-6 with 11 years, he has a permanent profile, he is or was overweight. Depending on the number of people in his MOS that have to be eliminated he may have the statistics to have fallen in the QMP because the other SSG in his MOS was above him. In other times, the QMP board may have not chosen him. He needs to look at the other options available to him. VA disability for profile. Reserve or NG units or move on with his life. When the money is tight and you have to cut back, you only keep the best.

Response by MAJ Dianne Stewart made May 23 at 2016 4:47 PM

MAJ Dianne Stewart — Mon, 23 May 2016 16:47:38 -0400

The headline is misleading....simple being overweight 3 years ago is not why he is being let go....he failed to meet standards, he didn't compete for promotion, his time ran out and so did his appeals.....the Army is awesome at telling people they are screwed up, putting it in writing and following through if you fail to meet minimum standards while at the same time rewarding those that meet and exceed standards....simple showing up and doing your job is not justification to keep someone that doesn't meet the minimum standards that his peers so and receive the same benefits.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2016 5:06 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 May 2016 17:06:08 -0400

Here is the text of a letter I wrote for a SSG who was on last year's QMP list. As you read it note his accomplishments since the incident that resulted in his QMP. After his appeal was sent in he was retained.

Read the second paragraph. After getting in trouble and getting a FG ART-15 he excelled at everything. In addition to this letter he got one from the Division CSM stating that he was the runner up for DIV NCO of the year. He also provided information that the board already had such as: NCOERs letters of commendation and awards that attested to his stellar performance.

Yes, you can "beat" a QMP. It isn't easy, but if you can show that you are not the guy that the Army needs to get rid of you can be retained.
Now if you were overweight and since that time your performance has been middle-of-the road you will likely NOT be retained, but it is worth a shot.

I will copy this to a response to the original post so more see it.

1. SSG XXXX receives my highest recommendation for continued service as a highly valued Leader within the US Army. If the purpose of the QMP program is to rid the Army of leaders with no further leadership potential, he must be retained. Despite his identification for QMP by the program’s automatic filters, his outstanding performance demands that we fight for his retention. He is a Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) that has exhibited a proven ability to handle the duties and responsibilities above his current rank of Staff Sergeant and he has the potential to rise to the highest ranks of the NCO Corps. He is a valued and relied upon member of our Brigade Combat Team (BCT).

2. Since his arrival to XXXX, SSG XXXX performance has been among the top 1% of the NCOs across the Brigade’s seven battalions. He was selected as our Brigade NCO of the Year and will represent the Brigade at the Division NCO of the Year event and higher. He earned such distinction because of his proven ability and success, as well as the beneficial impact and influence he has on peers, subordinates, seniors, and the entire organization. His leadership skills and professionalism is beyond that of his peers. He constantly demonstrates the foresight to anticipate requirements, and a talent for identifying future opportunities and/or obstacles. He does not just identify issues, he solves problems and teaches others to do so as well. He is in outstanding physical shape. He is a consummate team player. He is a resilient and tough NCO. As a Combat Engineer NCO, he is of even greater value to the BCT as the Brigade is poised to re-activate the Engineer Battalion into its formation. His leadership and MOS expertise is needed to re-integrate the engineer capabilities into a team that focuses on both the Wide Area Security and Combined Arms Maneuver mission scenarios. He also competed in, and finished third place in the Division Best Sapper competition, during which the contestants covered 50 miles in 50 hours. His tenacity, fitness and determination were on display.

3. SSG XXXX is a competent and capable leader with unlimited potential. He builds trusting teams by demonstrating a genuine concern for others, while simultaneously pushing his team to greater levels of success. He consistently performs at a level above his rank. His advanced leadership competencies and attributes provide a rock-solid foundation for his unbounded potential to handle increased challenges, duties, and responsibilities. SSG XXXX receives my highest recommendation to be retained for continued service. This recommendation is not easily earned, and it is based solely upon merit. SSG XXXX recommendation results from observed professionalism, performance, and determination.

Response by CPL Daniel Schwinge made May 23 at 2016 7:28 PM

CPL Daniel Schwinge — Mon, 23 May 2016 19:28:07 -0400

So sorry to hear that another service member is going thru this like I did. I couldn't keep my weight down, so I was bared from reenlistment after 10 years of service. Luckily I had civilian marketable skill, during my 30 days leave, I had 2 job offers. This was also before you needed a certification to be a Operating Room Tech. My class was before the CST was even checking schools. Now I have over 20 years experience and because of botched back surgery at the VA I am now 100% and 53yrs old with nothing to look forward to.

Response by SGT Steve Burczyk made May 24 at 2016 9:30 AM

SGT Steve Burczyk — Tue, 24 May 2016 09:30:45 -0400

Yet, they let a Brig. General who's currently overweight & has not tested for an APFT for over three years remain on full time guard status with the New Jersey national guard stay in.....total B.S. Officers should lead by example for lower ranking personnel to follow. Sickening knowing a BG chapters lower enlisted personnel for not making weight standards when he is overweight himself. Probably will get an MSM or higher for a retirement award as well.

Response by SGT Steve Burczyk made May 24 at 2016 9:41 AM

SGT Steve Burczyk — Tue, 24 May 2016 09:41:28 -0400

Take transition leave "Do Not", cash your leave in as you will be taxed 28%. Transition/Terminal leave you will still get sep. rations, BAQ/VHA, Cola if your overseas, & paid leave. Talk to a career counselor/retention NCO to see if you can serve in full time IRR after you discharge. You're entitled to ACAP brefing/training prior to discharge, ensure you request it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 2:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 May 2016 14:24:33 -0400

Regardless of what they say the QMP board is for if you are in a position in am overstrength MOS regardless if you sneezed and crapped your pants 15 years ago... You are getting the boot. That is just my insightful opinion

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 25 at 2016 12:31 AM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 25 May 2016 00:31:25 -0400

Good Luck!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 7:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 May 2016 19:22:05 -0400

Good luck to you! I'm done fighting it, already accepted it, hit the transition hard and got a job in the place I wanted doing what I want for ALOT more money. The Army has been good to me and I hope they will be good to you. Just don't panic if they say no, 1 door closes, 100 open. I'm excited!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2016 4:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 16:18:45 -0400

All QMP separated soldiers receive an RE-4 code. non waver-able. when you got your notice of denied further service you had 3 options
1. Appeal ( followed by involuntary separation if you lose)
2. Inv. separation you will ETS by 1st day of 7th month
3. Vol. separation (out in 90 days)
what they don't tell you on the paper is that if you choose the 7 month (actually 6 ) option your 3 letter discharge code on your DD214 reads that you were separated for failure to meet or maintain army standards. However if you select to get out in 90 days you get coded as separated for needs of the army. Seems like no big deal but it severely effects your ability to get federal jobs.
It really is a whole lot of unfair there are soldiers who are being looked at for poor NCOER's from 10 years back

Response by CSM James Winslow made Jul 14 at 2016 12:44 PM

CSM James Winslow — Thu, 14 Jul 2016 12:44:34 -0400

Because 6 months is the minimum time anyone would need to roll out of the Army. That you have 60 days leave is your commander's fault. You need to buckle down and start making decisions. I would verify that this QMP bars you from USAR or NG service. Talk to your retention NCO about it. I do not think the overweight was the only reason you were asked to leave. Use your leave to find a job or get enrolled in school or a training program. Put this part of your life behind you and don't take it personal. Rocky said it best: "It doesn't matter how hard you hit in this life, but how hard a hit you can take and still get back up." Good Luck!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 4:18 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 04:18:51 -0400

Simple answer to a simple question: "SM will be separated by the first day of the seventh following release of the board results" or something to that effect. For the last board that convened in March, the results were released in May. You count May, June, July, August, September and October. The separation date is NLT than 1 November, with November being the seventh month.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2017 5:22 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 May 2017 17:22:16 -0400

I understand your concern and how conveying this message can be very ambiguous. How the months work in the QMP process this that Soldiers are given 7 months to separate from service, however.. it is not 7 months from time of notification. It is 7 months from the time that G-1/HRC approves the list of the QMP board results. Inform your Soldiers of this as it will benefit them to know so they can better prepare. G-1 may approve the list on 1 June 2017, but if you are notified 1 September 2017... you have to subtract those months and that's how much time your really have to separate from service. Yea I know.. doesn't seem right does it?? but this is true. Also, G-1/HRC take into account the amount of years you have in service. For example, if a Soldier has 17 years and 8 months in service and was being considered for QMP, he or she would not populate on the approved QMP list because they would have reached what is called, "a state of sanctuary" upon time of the approved list (in other words they remain retained). Because a Soldier has 7 months to separate from service at time of approved list, a Soldier with 17 years and 8 months of service would reach 18 years and 3 months during that 7 months window of time to separate.. Since 18 years and 3 months is the starting point for state sanctuary.. Soldier will not get QMP'ed and will get to retire with full benefits (but has to retire at 20 years and not a day long). He or she probably wont ever get promoted again.. but they can at least retire as long as they haven't or will not reach an RCP date before 20 years. I hope this was helpful for those in question. I have battles who missed the state of sanctuary literally by one month. Horrible to be told you have to get out of the Army at 18 years and 2 months in service, but if you had 18 years and 3 months, .... your safe, you can retire.

Response by SSG Michael Laventure made Oct 24 at 2019 9:51 PM

SSG Michael Laventure — Thu, 24 Oct 2019 21:51:15 -0400

If you are no longer overweight you can write to the Army Board for the Correction of Military Records IAW AR 15-185. Hire a civilian attorney and have them save your career or don’t it is totally your call.