Why does the Army baby sit grown men and women on a daily basis? I never understood this.

2014-02-12T17:06:07-05:00

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2014 5:10 PM

2014-02-12T17:10:46-05:00

Mainly because they lack maturity and experience.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2014 5:29 PM

2014-02-12T17:29:05-05:00

I honestly believe that if every leader empowered their Soldiers and allow them to complete a mission without telling them how to skin the cat we can probably have more mature and reliable Soldiers in the Army.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2014 6:15 PM

2014-02-12T18:15:15-05:00

tl;dr - different cultures because of different missions

Because we have created a culture in which personal accountability includes accountability for subordinate actions. The weekend safety brief is a perfect example.
Do we really need to tell a large group of adults (well, mostly adults) that certain things are a bad idea to do or do they already know? The question answers itself when the leader stands on the carpet along with the offender and is asked by a leader a few echelons above him "did you tell him/her not to do this?"
It hurts my heart to have to tell a grown man who leads hundreds or thousands into harms way "Yes, I told him not to drive drunk and solicit prostitutes after beating up his girlfriend." I really shouldn't have to tell anybody that. It's covered under basic education of "these are laws; if you break them, you will be punished."

The reason for the different approach is sensible: The ground services rely on the individual actions of the subordinates to be 100% while under fire. The fewest of the USAF missions do not have a more senior Airman checking the E-4-and-below's work prior to sending it up the chain.
As in: The commissioned officer in the cockpit can rest assured that the compulsively-marrying-exotic-dancers 19-year-old E-3 with less than two years in service is not his last line of defense against critical component failure. The Army/USMC platoon leader does not have that luxury when it comes to not becoming a victim of fratricide because PFC Snuffy can't keep his gosh darn sectors of fire straight.
Does this dichotomy apply to the Army outside of combat arms? It shouldn't, all logistics and maneuver support has more senior leaders checking subordinate work. But the Army bases itself off the combat arms world as everything not -combat arms simply supports combat arms.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2014 6:41 PM

2014-02-12T18:41:32-05:00

its like in civilian work sector, they don't want us to get hurt and do something stupid because it costs them money to get us fixed up if we get hurt and stuff like that. I personally am getting sick and tired of hearing this "safety first" bs . Lets just be adults, professionals and responsible for our actions and there will be no issues. Lets put away our smart phones and focus on what's in front of you so you don't get hurt by walking in to something or drive and txt at the same time. Its all TOO EASY, lets just do it and this baby sitting will go away.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2014 7:21 PM

2014-02-12T19:21:12-05:00

I think its because Army puts no emphasis as a whole on personal responsibility and accountability. If a Soldier is jacked up, usually his NCO gets in trouble and then the soldier gets nagged as a result. My policy with my soldiers and NCOs has always been, you are a "grown ass man or woman, do what you think is right in the situation you are in, and right or wrong I will support you as long as you take responsibility for your actions" If you empower your soldiers to make their own adult decisions, usually they will act like the adults you expect them to be. At least thats worked for me so far. I don't insult their intelligence by standing in front of them every friday and telling them that rape, domestic abuse, and AIDS is bad…..its all about persona accountability and responsibility and the army pretty much takes it away.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2014 9:44 PM

2014-02-13T21:44:00-05:00

This is because we are dealing with a generation of Soldiers that come from the mentality, they are ' Entitled", and they think they do not have to take personal responsibility for their actions. It is always someone else's fault. And now with an Army where leaders fear reprisal and false claims of harassment, they enable this type of behavior even more. Hopefully over time we can weed out the substandard Soldiers and retain the true dedicated mature Soldiers.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2014 1:07 AM

2014-02-14T01:07:13-05:00

Because unlike any other job, Soldiers are Soldiers 24/7.

As an NCO, I never cared if others thought I was "babysitting" my guys when I checked on them in the barracks or on long weekends, as long as my guys are ready to go, I'm fine.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2014 1:14 AM

2014-02-14T01:14:57-05:00

I was just having this conversation with some fellow NCOs the other day. It use to be “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime”

Now we are required to pile buckets of fish in front of them and force them to eat. Its ridiculous. We coddle our young Soldiers and then wonder why we have less than competent leaders. Because you spend your entire early career having things handed to you then when it is your turn to lead you don't know where to look. Now that SFC has to hand the NCOs the information to lead the Soldiers. Wrong answer in my book.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 14 at 2014 9:02 AM

2014-02-14T09:02:18-05:00

Because the organization is mostly children, ie 17-21. I know, I know, they're TECHNICALLY adults, but arbitrary numbers and maturity have nothing to do with each other..

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Feb 14 at 2014 9:39 AM

2014-02-14T09:39:20-05:00

I can't speak for everyone else but, I'm in the Army and I don't babysit anyone. I give direction, when it's not followed I give appropriate consequences. Doing this and being consistent with it, I've found that the problems work themselves out, literally (chaptered).

Once you start to babysit, you'll be known as a babysitter. Frankly you can't complain about a job that you do if you choose to do it.

Response by CSM Michael Poll made Feb 14 at 2014 10:43 AM

2014-02-14T10:43:25-05:00

The term "Babysit" is in the eye of the beholder. The main job of leaders in the US Army is to supervise and manage. It is up to the Soldiers in the individual units on how much supervision and managment is needed. If Soldiers are doing the right thing at the right time and in the right uniform, I tend to stay out of thier way, just check up on them from time to time to ensure they are doing whats right. If they have a habit of not dong what they ar supposed tobe, causing issues etc. This means that a ittle more "hands on" supervision is required.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2014 5:09 PM

2014-02-17T17:09:53-05:00

Because we as a collective leadership group allow it. It sucks, but that is the answer.

Response by CMC Robert Young made Feb 18 at 2014 7:49 PM

2014-02-18T19:49:24-05:00

It's not the Army alone. The unfortunate fact is that we have two generations of special people (everybody gets a trophy) who are either not interested in, or not capable of, taking care of themselves or functioning to degree that's required of adults. It's not possible to give our junior members what they didn't get from their parents.

You can either take care of yourself or you can't....clearly, a large number in our hallowed fraternity simply don't get it. Maybe letting them sink would inspire them to step up; or maybe it wouldn't.