Why Does the Army Call NCOs "Sergeant" and Officers "Sir"?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 00:53:30 -0400

Throughout my Army career, I have been taught that we refer to NCOs as "Sergeant" (or, beginning with Master Sergeant, their full rank) but we refer to Officers as "Sir" or "Ma'am." However, recently I was challened by an E-9 in the Air Force (Chief Master Sergeant, I think) to find out more about this. Is this simply the unwritten rule, a part of Army customs and courtesies? And, if it is, where did this come from? Or is this actually written somewhere, in a regulation I have not found yet?

Note that at no point am I saying this is incorrect. I am just trying to get some actual facts on the tradition, so that, as an NCO, I know more about the facts behind the traditions/customs/courtesies.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 9 at 2015 1:11 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 01:11:39 -0400

I honestly think that it was begun in the army to show a mark of respect to those in the enlisted ranks that had been selected as leaders, and promoted out from the ranks. The Title Sergeant, is an honored position dating back centuries, and I am proud to have earned the right to use it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 1:34 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 01:34:13 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, I don't know its origin, but it is regulation. AR 600-20, table 1-1 provides the titles of address (e.g., Sergeant First Class = Sergeant), and AR 600-25 provides the appropriate greetings (e.g., "Good morning, Ma'am."). *EDIT* In case you weren't aware, the title of address for Master Sergeant is "Sergeant", not "Master Sergeant."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 2:14 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 02:14:43 -0400

I've never called a MSG/E-8 a 'Master Sergeant', they are still a 'Sergeant', unless it's a First Sergeant, CSM/SGM(Sergeant Major), Drill Sergeant or a Corporal. If you refer to them in third person 'Master Sergeant So-So wanted the motorpool..etc etc.." that might be okay.

Inspector General Friedrichvon Steuben standardized NCO duties and responsibilities in his Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States (printed in 1779).
Among other things this work (commonly called the Blue Book) set down the duties and responsibilities for corporals, sergeants, first sergeants, and sergeants major, which were the NCO ranks of the period. It also emphasized the importance of selecting quality enlisted men for NCO positions.

"Though not always recognized as such, servant leadership — putting the needs of others first and helping people develop and perform as highly as possible — is ingrained in Army culture and within the NCO Corps. In fact, the very word sergeant comes from the French word for servant "- Command Sgt. Maj. Rory Malloy

Historically, officers were prominent aristocrats or landowners who received a commission from the country’s ruler, giving them permission to raise and train military units. By contrast, the enlisted were “the common folk” the officers led into battle. This was once true even in the United States: Military units were raised for the Civil War by wealthy and prominent community members, who would obtain a commission to recruit and train the people in their home town.

Its late, this is all I could come up with at the moment.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 9 at 2015 3:02 AM

PO1 John Miller — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 03:02:54 -0400

Navy regulations cover the same thing.

For example, E-4 through E-6 can be addressed by "Petty Officer" or by a combination of their rank and rate. Example. I was an Information Systems Technician (abbreviated as IT), First Class Petty Officer, abbreviated as PO1. I would go by either Petty Officer Miller or IT1 Miller. Same for Petty Officer Second and Third Classes, PO2 and PO3.

For the Senior Petty Officer ranks, E-7 through E-9, pretty much the same thing except for the "Petty Officer" part. Do NOT call an E-7 & up Petty Officer. Call them Chief (E7; CPO), Senior Chief (E8; SCPO) or Master Chief (E9; MCPO). You can also throw in job title: ITC, ITCS, ITCM. For whatever reason when combining rank with job title at E8 and E9 levels, the letters for rank are transposed. So CS instead of SC for Senior Chief and CM instead of MC for Master Chief.

All Officers can properly be addressed as Sir/Ma'am. Regulations also state that a junior officer can be addressed as "Mister" or "Miss." So Ensign Jones can be called Mr./Ms. Jones.
More senior officers (I believe O-3 and above) can also be called by their rank (though it is also acceptable but unwritten to call all officers by their rank). Example: "Good morning Lieutenant Commander Jones."

I've also noticed during my work as a contractor for the Air National Guard that a person higher in rank than you, enlisted and officer, be addressed as sir or Ma'am. So an E-3 calling an E-7 "Sir." I do NOT know, nor do I particularly care to know, if this is a written regulation or an unofficial practice.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jun 9 at 2015 6:25 AM

PO3 David Fries — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 06:25:50 -0400

If Navy Corpsman served with the Army it would have made my life easier. Lol
Referring to a Staff Sergeant, Gunnery Sergeant, First Sergeant, Master Sergeant, Sergeant Major/Master Gunnery Sergeant as just Sergeant would more than likely would have led to my early demise. Lol

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 9 at 2015 6:49 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 06:49:20 -0400

It's part of the Customs & Courtesies, and it is generally codified differently in each services' regulations, but it is NOT an "unwritten rule."

"Sir" is an honorific, historically denoting fealty (root word Sire), and its usage among the US military is a direct "inheritance" from the British military. The British commission system (historically) aligned with Nobility, and the simplest explanation is the carryover from one to the other. though like many things from military customs & courtesies, the exact origins are unclear.

As for why enlisted are referred to by rank instead, it's also a matter of strict courtesy, going back to the British (if not farther) systems. As we look farther back, the number of ranks trims to that of Private, Corporal, Sergeant, Sergeant Major (more of a billet).

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 9 at 2015 7:07 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 07:07:29 -0400

I think that is more to it than calling an officer sir or ma'am. Here you are calling a 21 year old young man or lady sir or ma'am who is wet behind the hears and are void of experience but possesses a four year college degree. Perhaps you are more educated than him or her; they are commissioned officers and you are enlisted. Tradition along with discipline and good order dictates we call them sir or ma'am. I sometimes wonder why some enlisted speak to officers like they are a second class citizen. It's like they are afraid the officer is going to crack a whip so to speak. Some enlisted act timid to officers which I am totally absent of that behavior. I have actually met several officers who speak and treat enlisted like regular colleagues. It's officers like those who I prefer to work with and for.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 7:08 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 07:08:33 -0400

Hello, first, yes, AF E-9 is Chief Master Sergeant. (I would recommend that you become familiar with all branch ranks as it is an invaluable piece of knowledge.) :)

It is the same in the AF, according to our "Little Brown Book", AFI 36-2618, the ranks of E-5 through E-8 can be called "Sergeant". E-9 will be addressed as "Chief" or "Chief Master Sergeant".

The AF tends to address everyone as "Sir" or "Ma'am" irrespective of rank. Coming from an Army background, I have mixed feelings on this. I like the respect of it up the chain and down, but I am a bigger fan of the Marines' addressing full rank.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jun 9 at 2015 8:19 AM

SGT William Howell — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 08:19:56 -0400

Because if you called an Army Officer, "Sergeant" it would confuse him for months!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 8:55 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 08:55:07 -0400

Close answers...read my book Sovereigns, Dynasties, and Nobility available on Amazon. As with many things in history, much depends on your chosen snapshot in time. By the time of the 11th Century, "Sire" was the term generally offered to most male nobles in Europe including serf-knights. The term eventually morphed into "sir" and was applied to the merchant class and gentry. People who model their beliefs on Hollywood notions thus link 'sir" as in Sir Lancelot; however, the correct term was "sire". By the 16th Century, military officers still tended to be from noble/upper class families and were customarily referred to as "Sir".
Similarly, "Ma'am" or "Madame" was a term originally applied to noble or royal ladies (Baroness and higher).
The position/rank/term of "Sergeant" also had different meanings in different times, from Sergeant Knights/at arms (Sergeant at arms) to Sergeant Major Generals....in such cases the "title" or "rank" was applied in cases when the term "sir" or "sire" did not apply, as in the case of lower knights and squires.
D

Response by SrA Daniel Hunter made Jun 9 at 2015 9:16 AM

SrA Daniel Hunter — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 09:16:27 -0400

To find it's origin I would say British Army is where you might start. Throw on a little French and Prussian for seasoning.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 12:44 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 12:44:34 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I applaud you as well for wanting to uphold the standard and that will be great practice for when you become one of us. That being said regulations are there as a baseline, but any unit can add to but never take away from any of them at the commanders discretion. Some of the inherited customs and courtesies are just that. For me, E8 and up will get their full rank in a greeting except for CSM's where it is always "Sergeant Major" (as I have been told). On most occasions in garrison I am always called "Sergeant", but in most line units I always get "Staff Sergeant", which to be honest isn't necessary to me at all, but the level of respect that shows is nice.

Far to often we greet and answer people with little to no thought of the person instead we focus on the question...I am guilty of this as well. Complacency kills!! Ultimately neither way is wrong, but like I said it could be command driven or a preference from that NCO.

When Speaking to an Officer it's always "Sir" or "Ma'am" unless you are speaking about them to someone else, but then if they are an LT it's "Lieutenant" with no number attached to it or "Colonel" for both O5's and O6's in some cases. Generals can often be the same way, but again its all up to that specific command.

Now what we call ourselves in our own little groups of people that we work with or see often is a completely different animal. There are a lot of First Names and Nicknames thrown around, but that depends on those individuals and the level of comfort that you have with each other.

Hope this helps and keep pushing to be the example that you want your soldiers to look up to and emulate!! Best of luck to you!!

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jun 9 at 2015 1:57 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:57:11 -0400

While I don't have an answer for the question, it did remind me of an exchange between me and an Army sergeant at Rhein-Main AB.

I was doing an ID check at the gate outside the base clinic when said sergeant approached me on his way to an appointment. I checked his credentials and said, "Have a good day, sir." Keep in mind that my training taught us to address everyone professionally by using sir or ma'am. This is how our post briefings would start regardless of who was doing the post check. Anyway, he paused and said very matter-of-factly, "Sir? I work for a living! You need to address me as sergeant!" The response took me by surprise because I wasn't sure if he was joking or not. It should also be noted that at the time both of us were E-5. I apologized citing training and the such, but I never forgot that day.

From that point on, I addressed every Army soldier by their rank, except for the officer corps where a simple sir or ma'am suffices.

Response by SFC Rocky Stepp made Jun 9 at 2015 3:56 PM

SFC Rocky Stepp — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 15:56:08 -0400

Sergeant comes from the Latin word serveins which means servant. They were assistants to the Knights and we're responsible for training and discipline of the soldiers.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jun 9 at 2015 4:57 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 16:57:46 -0400

Jason!!!! Where have you been hiding??!! Look for my contact request in 7 hours, Yoda.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 8:17 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 08:17:56 -0400

Once again, different times, different services, different customs and courtesies. Colonial times defaulted to nobility practices as we explained earlier. Fast forward to 1812 and you see that dropping off except for commissioned officers; enlisted troops were called either by their rank or last names. By the time of the Civil war "Sarge" was an acceptable term among enlisted troops except for the titles of 1SG and Sgt Major and that continued during WWI, WWII, Korea (encouraged by Hollywood), including "familiarism" of first or last names. During 60s and forward we find a more "professional" NCO Corps that began demanding respect; a new SMA Position created, "integration" of the Women's Army Corps (which had more formal customs, courtesies, traditions)-leading to VOLAR and official policies in the 1980s--yes policies--to address soldiers by the actual rank and last name. The Navy (and Marines) of course long had tighter policies for key leaders; the Army Air Force was more lax until the Air Force itself was formed. However, most of the more formal addresses we see today arose in the 1980s as part of VOLAR.

Response by SPC Brian Bay made Mar 18 at 2016 10:56 PM

SPC Brian Bay — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 22:56:24 -0400

....Because God said...and Sergeant Major concurred

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2016 3:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 May 2016 15:41:38 -0400

It's one of those hidden buried traditions from the revolutionary war that just continued on. I'm sure it's written somewhere but I can't recall.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 13 at 2016 12:04 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 00:04:51 -0400

Officers are made "gentelmen" by act of Congress. It is a throwback to the old English system that our Army is based upon. Plus like SGT William Howell said, it you called a Cherry Lieutenant "sergeant" he would likely go off by himself and sit in the corner for a week drooling and trying to figure out who you were talking to.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jan 26 at 2018 3:36 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Fri, 26 Jan 2018 15:36:10 -0500

" Back in my day" we were all Sgt, except the 1st Sgt and Smaj. No one saluted you or stood on one leg when you came into the room.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 17 at 2018 11:12 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 23:12:40 -0400

You need to go back to the Middle Ages for that.

Response by MSgt Robert Shoemake made Nov 14 at 2018 8:44 PM

MSgt Robert Shoemake — Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:44:03 -0500

Speaking as a Air Force MSgt. I’ m proud to be a member of the senior nco tier. All of us try to reach the Chief Master Sargents rank. To me it is a position of honor!