Why does the army force good soldiers away from re-enlistment?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:06:51 -0400

Good soldiers have it worst than POS soldiers. I feel like good soldiers get driven so hard to the point they burn out then don't re enlist. The POS soldiers just kick back with FTR and council statements for 20yrs

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2020 11:13 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:13:47 -0400

Absolutely. It's a major problem. That's why we have other opportunities that only quality Soldiers qualify for. CMFs 18/37/38, 160th, 75th RR, SMUs, Attache, WHCA, WHTA, JCU, OSW, JSOC. (list does NOT include SFAB)
Drop packet, leave conventional where shammers sham and quality is run down.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2020 11:42 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:42:43 -0400

I noticed the change in 2007, the Army went soft, we as NCOs could not longer dust a Soldier off, everything went on the 4856. But it stopped there. No one wants to dish out UCMJ anymore (maybe it looks bad on the Commander for having to do his job, "why is he having to punish Soldiers, they should be perfect!") I had a Soldier in Germany that I would be writing counselings probably every other week. This kid had NEVER once even qualified with his M4. The PSG literally told me "He is going to slip through the cracks, because we need our numbers". So we then deployed and not only did I have to fight insurgents, but babysit this kid 24/7.
The other problem is that not having the screw ups in trouble, aka on extra duty, means more details for everyone which takes away from training. Biggest complaint among NCOS? Too many details so we can't train. That's the reason we're ALWAYS in BRM and can never get the unit past it to do the fun shooting - because not everyone is going to the range due to BS details and online training, and taskings.
Officers please UCMJ the hell out of the screw ups, HQDA will give you replacements, as long as you do the paperwork and use the system!!!

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Apr 10 at 2020 11:58 AM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:58:32 -0400

That's not just an Army problem....

Response by SPC Christopher Krusey made Apr 10 at 2020 12:00 PM

SPC Christopher Krusey — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:00:41 -0400

In my case it's because some people convinced the government that I was a TERRORIST!

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 10 at 2020 2:31 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:31:24 -0400

My experience in the public and private sectors say people do not leave companies (organizations), they leave managers (NCOs and Officers). Everybody in a supervisory or leadership position is mutually responsible when a Soldier decides not to re-enlist. In some cases it's a good thing. You don't want the POS Soldiers re-enlisting. You do want the hardworking, dedicated, honest Soldiers to re-enlist and get promoted. I wholeheartedly encourage leaders to set standards for excellence and hold their Soldiers and Civilians accountable for meeting those standards. Those who violate directives must be rehabilitated if possible, but "chaptered" if not. Disciplinary actions, including USMJ Article 15, can be part of rehabilitating a Soldier or part of getting them out of the Service. In addition, publicly praise and award the Soldiers who positively exceed standards.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2020 2:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:32:10 -0400

It’s simple. Good soldiers are reliable, POS soldiers are not. Good soldiers get tasked with a majority of the work because leaders Know the tasks will be accomplished properly and in a timely manor. I’m not saying this is right, everyone is part of a team but because the good soldiers don’t re-enlist, the cycle continues. If good soldiers re-enlisted and become NCOs, the POS mentality can get Bread out if that makes sense. Not saying there isn’t anything leaders can do about it and I absolutely agree it’s very frustrating for motivated soldiers to carry them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2020 4:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:13:42 -0400

I've reenlisted probably over a thousand Soldiers by now and I would very much disagree with that statement. Young Soldiers like yourself are very emotionally driven. If you ask a group of first term Soldiers if they plan to reenlist, they'll all tell you no. But 80-90% of them who are eligible to reenlist, will.
On one day, they will walk in and swear they're never going to reenlist. A few days later, their buddies will tell them about this magical place - Campbell, Bragg, Europe, USASOC - where everything is better and they get to deploy, and they'll reenlist for it. Then two weeks later they'll have a bad day and ask if they can get out of their contract. A month after that, they can't wait to leave. After getting to their new duty station they realized how much they miss the last one.
It's all just a bunch of emotions until you start treating it like a career instead of a life adventure.

As for getting driven so hard, the ones who work are the ones who get promoted. Bare minimum you have to make E6 to stay in long enough to retire. But you're an 88M, you can realistically retire as an E8 in 20 years. Those Soldiers who do the minimum, get the minimum. Those who work hard get the choice assignments that get them promoted. They get selected for schools that translate into post-retirement certifications like Project Management, Lean Six Sigma, and others.

Spend less time worrying about others and focus on your own growth and you will be happier.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2020 5:29 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:29:49 -0400

I agree with WO1 C on this. And SFC Carroll to an extent. I recommend to everyone to get out of the big Army and go into a specialized field. Rather it be Ranger Batt, CID, CI, SF, or CA there's a lot of hidden gems in the Army. You have to get your mindset of the entire Army is terrible when it comes to POS being favorites. I know it happens I've been stationed where it happpened. Try to match what you want to do long term and match it up with the Army. You can really network out if break away from the Big Army

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 10 at 2020 5:48 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:48:21 -0400

I will have to disagree. While there are average Soldiers who re-up, average Soldiers don’t make it to 20 years. As for Poor Soldiers getting over, th at can only happen under poor leadership.

Response by SSG Dennis R. made Apr 10 at 2020 9:22 PM

SSG Dennis R. — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 21:22:17 -0400

A very long time ago I was told by a First Sergeant: I spend 90% of my time with 10% of the troops". So often, that is reality.
I didn't keep numbers, but virtually everyone walking into a mental health clinic or alcohol and drug rehab center was facing charges of one sort or another. Seldom did one actually volunteer to visit. I saw patients for 16 years while on active duty, nobody above the grade of E-6. Amazing. Not one single senior NCO, warrant or officer ever had a substance abuse problem or mental health issue.
If any of that still holds today, then it's little wonder reenlistments may be problematic.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 10 at 2020 10:44 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 22:44:38 -0400

Yes it is abusing the studs. So when I was a commander, I wanted everyone to share the wealth when it came to taskings and missions.

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Apr 11 at 2020 12:25 AM

LT Brad McInnis — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 00:25:08 -0400

Over time, many of the average soldiers won't make it.

From a leader's perspective... you have 10lbs of crap to get into a 5 lb bag before the next tasking invariably comes down the pike. You have 3 soldier/sailors/airmen/Guardsmen or Marines, 2 of which will barely get anything in the bag. You have one that will shovel 6 lbs. Unfortunately, the one good SM is going to get the lion's share of the work because it has to get done. Hopefully, you or better yet, your senior enlisted, will get an equitable spread, but if they don't, the bag still needs to get filled. It sucks, but that is the way it is. As a leader, I tried very hard to even out the assignments and timings to my senior enlisted for further distro, but it wasn't always possible.

Response by CPT Derek Wren made Apr 12 at 2020 4:16 AM

CPT Derek Wren — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:16:39 -0400

As far as the army directly forcing good soldiers away from reenlistment, I would have to concur with some of the other NCOs on here. The army does not force you out, unfortunately you have POS soldiers everywhere just as you have POS civilians at their jobs and those that bust their butts and do good often get driven harder then others and wonder WTF. I myself was in that same position as an E-4 and asked my PSG one day and he gave me a straightforward no BS answer, I tend to ride you and certain others harder because I know I can count on you to get the job done and get it done correctly, where as the POS soldiers will most likely screwed up and or not complete the task(s) given, then requiring additional soldiers to fix what they did.
Work hard, set a goal as far as rank, or position, or anything that keeps you driving forward and ultimately you will succeed and surpass those POS soldiers and when that magical 20 year letter pops up, you’ll be glad that you did! Best of luck to you.

Response by TSgt George Austin made Apr 16 at 2020 3:24 PM

TSgt George Austin — Thu, 16 Apr 2020 15:24:13 -0400

You just have to cope with the fact that boot lickers get ahead. I have seen a commendation medal awarded for organizing paperwork. You just gotta "drive on". FIDMN