Why Does the Army Treat its Reservists and National Guard Soldiers Like Second Class Citizens?

2015-09-06T04:06:45-04:00

I've spent 37 years in the Army, in both the active and reserve components. Most of my career has been in the reserves. Regardless, I've consistently seen different "rules" and regs applied not to mention the never ending attitude on deployments that reservists and guardsmen are inferior to active component Soldiers.The active component gets promoted faster, has priority at required schools and typically treats reservists/guardsmen like second class Soldiers on deployments. I can give dozens of examples if needed but I'll save it for now. Bottom line is the Reserves/Guard constitute the bulk of the Army - the Army needs the Reserve/Guard and can't do without them so treat them as equals and not second class Soldiers. Give them the same opportunities for promotion and schools. And especially to the active component, quit assuming we are "inferior" Soldiers during deployments. We often outperform active duty Soldiers plus we bring a multitude of other skills to the table - we are cops, engineers, CEO's, nurses and so on. Let's make everything equitable.

Just to clarify, not all AC elements are like this, nor are all RC/NG elements "top shelf." This issue is a problem that has been around since when I joined the Army in 1978 - I'm sure it goes back even further. This post is about fixing attitudes, ending stereotypes and providing equal educational opportunities to RC/NG Soldiers that AC Soldiers enjoy.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Sep 6 at 2015 4:44 AM

2015-09-06T04:44:52-04:00

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) - our Reserve Component Soldiers are a very viable part of our mission! Soldiers from my unit are in 12 countries tonight spread across three continents, do you think for a minute we could be spread that thin and not rely on our full spectrum force, which includes our Reserve Component force? We not only incorporate them, we rely on them and trust them, they are our partners, sometimes you just have move past the stereotypical blinders and trust that people will do their jobs, they often bring many better practices or ways of doing things with them!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 5:34 AM

2015-09-06T05:34:10-04:00

Those that behave that way have either been informally indoctrinated or frustated by RC unorthodox methods of getting things done.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Sep 6 at 2015 5:56 AM

2015-09-06T05:56:49-04:00

Huh, I guess I am surprised that this is still an issue ... I was under the impression that the Reserves and National Guard commanded more respect from the Active components in the post-9/11 environment. Sadly, what you describe CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) is what I saw in the 80s and 90s.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 6:24 AM

2015-09-06T06:24:28-04:00

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) With all due respect, I disagree with that premise. Understanding that in comparison, I have the third of your time in the Army, I have always been a mobilized reservist. In an honest comparison, I would say yes, the RC is more laxed with the Rules at times, but there is that experience in a civilian career that ups the ante. You can not compare an Active duty soldier that only knows the active duty side, to one that has knowledge of his military job, as well as other jobs experiences, and maybe a college degree. Usually RC units are more easily adaptable to an ever changing battlefield.

AC component usually forgets that we have 2-3 days a month to do what most of them do in 30 days, in addition to our regular jobs outside the military. We are more versatile when it comes to wearing multiple hats. Even sometimes, like my unit is presently experiencing, have a command that has no regard or knowledge of downtime to let troops recover. (meaning pulling 12-14 hr days every single drill weekend)

As a good example I can give you my unit's last AT operation, were we had to set up our level II medical facilities in the field, and be operational within 36 hours. Mind you we are not at 100% strength, more like 60%. Well, instead of 36 hours we were already up and ready in the first 24 hours, and able to start the training, in addition to do 2 more real life medical support missions to OCS training taking place in another location. In less than a week we proved to our command that we were able to meet the demands of our METL and SubMETL tasks 100%. It really came in handy that we had medics that were electricians, builders, and heavy equipment operators.

This was not easy to accomplish, but I am very proud that our soldiers were able to get the big picture of what we do in our unit.

I am not trying to put down the active component, but my personal experience is that as a single soldier, I have earned the respect of both AC and RC component commands. This has never been an issue with me, and this is more like that usual banter between our branches of service, because when the metal meets the meat, these preconceptions all die suddenly.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 8:08 AM

2015-09-06T08:08:29-04:00

I agree with you wholeheartedly Chief! I have been in the active duty component also. But I have been promoted faster in the Guard then the Active side. I would like to send my soldiers to school which I get asked regularly. Hell, I tried to go to military schools myself. This is a problem for the Army / DoD. Stop the separatism because the reserve components turnover rate number is not good! Everytime I come to drill within two months, another soldier has ETS, AWOL. I say have these schools available for soldiers so they will not complain to their leadership about how the unit is etc. I constantly have to defuse these issues! And work with what I have. I usually try to have Sargeants time when we have some downtime.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 9:12 AM

2015-09-06T09:12:19-04:00

Many of the systems whether it be training, promotions, pay or attitude, is leftover from when the Reserve component was simply a strategic reserve.... to be called up for all out war. Since the 90's, the Reserve amd National Guard has been very much part of the Operational forces. Yet, the progress on the attitudes and systems are still there. (If you've deployed into a combat zone, examine your retirement points. The system will still record each day as 'Active Duty for Training.')

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 9:23 AM

2015-09-06T09:23:33-04:00

As a reserve officer of 22 years, I am still adjusting to SSD requirements. I understand that there is more training the needs to be done than can be accomplished in 'one weekend a month.' But I would rather see a streamlining and efficiency study done in the reserve system., than obligate Soldiers when off duty.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-09-06T09:54:28-04:00

A couple of reasons for this. One is the us against them mentality that pervades the military. We have it in the Guard too. It's good for camaraderie and esprit de corps, but has it's downsides as well. But we see it at all levels. "B Co is sure ate up, glad I'm no part of that crap show." Next month when you're at B Co because of a promotion, "B Co, second to none!" I believe that a lot of the crap talking that I've heard about the Guard and Reserves belongs in that category, and I just don't take it very seriously.
One other reason that I believe that the Guard and Reserve components don't like talking about is that quality varies from unit to unit, and I believe though I don't have any basis other than gut feeling that it's worse than the AD. I believe that if the RC wants to be taken seriously, we need to ensure that all our units act and work as professionals. Not just drinking clubs and good ole boy buddy buddy clubs.
The company that I'm in now, I'd go anywhere with. I can't say that for every unit I've see.
I allow that active duty has their dud units, but I would expect that it's not so bad because soldiers PCS and leadership changes. While commanders and first sergeants move through units like they would on AD, the AGR staff can stay forever, as well as e-7s and below. Sometimes this is good. Oft times it's not.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 10:53 AM

2015-09-06T10:53:58-04:00

I could not agree with you more Chief.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Sep 6 at 2015 11:03 AM

2015-09-06T11:03:48-04:00

I don't know if the average Active Duty Joe in the trench sees the Reserves and NG as inferior, but I do suspect the Army as an organization does. Why that is, I don't know. Perhaps its natural to assume that those who do something fulltime are better than those who do a thing part-time; a reasonable argument, but I'm just hypothesizing.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 11:46 AM

2015-09-06T11:46:39-04:00

After over 14.5 years of active duty AF. I will say that in my 8.5 years in the Army Reserve I was treated very well and felt that we were ready to go do our assigned mission if called.

During our AT, we were received and shown respect by the cadre at our assignment.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Sep 6 at 2015 12:21 PM

2015-09-06T12:21:52-04:00

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) My experience with that attitude was accurate, until about 2002, then saw significant change (because everybody's ass was on active duty). Still see it a little, but usually from the younger AD NCOs who have not had a chance to deploy with a guard/reserve unit. And that usually goes away once the rough edges get knocked off and everybody settles in. I have seen it as late as 2011 and as high up as a CMSgt who had total disdain for the Guard/Reserves-but in fairness, I do not think he had been outside of a cubicle much. Sometimes you have to just into that face....

I think there will always be some hard feelings, but anyone who knows anything, knows that a good % of the Guard/Reserves came from AD, and most of the Guard/Reserves are also doing it for the right reasons, and often suffer financially from mobilizing-so they also must really believe in what they are doing.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 6 at 2015 12:58 PM

2015-09-06T12:58:40-04:00

I have seen a couple things that would lead to such discrimination. Sometimes the Reserves and NG that go active duty do not make a good impression such as wearing of the uniform or obesity. Sometimes the AC look at itself as varsity, and the Reserve/NG as JV. That is wrong as we all bleed red, and expect to be treated with dignity and respect. One year I received a few Reserve augmentees, and I sat down with my soldiers and said they are sacrificing their home and their family life. They are part of us now, we will treat them with dignity and respect.

Response by LTC Andrae Evans made Sep 6 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-09-06T13:46:23-04:00

Amen! There is also in inferiority complex when it comes to Reserve and Guard leaders who too quickly defer to the active counterpart even though the Reservist or Guardsman have more experience, more maturity and better judgment. The gains made by four of my five multi-year deployments were erased in months by active duty counterparts that thought they knew it all. in today's world, running an 18 year old's two-mile pace is not what keeps you alive, it is how you use your brains without the grace of machismo that bring the soldiers you are charged to home alive.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Sep 6 at 2015 3:15 PM

2015-09-06T15:15:16-04:00

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) I served for 37 years (one extra) there Chief and I experienced this as well, but I didn't let it take over my deployment. I was integrated with active duty component personnel and I made it clear as the Commander that I wouldn't tolerate (them, they, we, active duty over reserve, etc.). During that time period I made it very clear we all bled one color and that was "green". The attitude going in was one of inferior and the attitude going out was "One Team, One Fight". In my opinion senior leadership both on the officer side and senior NCO side are the ones that can make or break this attitude. I had senior officers (generals) and senior NCOs that knew we were the real deal and treated us just like everyone else. There is something to be learned from both (Reserve soldiers and learn from their active duty counterparts on those skills they get to train on 24/7 every month for 365 days a year and the Active Duty can learn valuable civilian skills they haven't been exposed to). If handled properly it can be a good experience for both and for me it comes down to leadership on both sides of the equation. Yes, I've had bad experiences too, but I corrected them very quickly. I told my Active Duty CSM on day one that I was active duty before he was out of diapers, so we can put that to rest right now - he got the message. Just my opinion Chief - don't shoot the messenger!

One other comment. I had more problems from a disciplinary standpoint with the ative duty during that deployment than with the reservist. No disrespect intended, but that is a fact!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2015 1:44 AM

2015-09-07T01:44:31-04:00

As a reservist, guardsman and active duty solder I can say that there are great soldiers and horrible soldiers in all three components. That being said the one trend I observed is that active duty soldiers tend to be more observant to customs and courtesies and be more respectful to senior personnel. Does this make them better operationally? Probably not. But appearance is everything

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2015 8:56 AM

2015-09-07T08:56:07-04:00

Pre-9/11, it was very much a culture of "You RC guys don't do what we do, as often as we do it, so you're not as skilled as us. And your crap is old." Now it's seems to be all about funding. It seems that the people at the Army Secretariat level are more worried that RC units can accomplish some traditional "T10" missions as well as the AC forces, i.e. the National Guard taking over the MFO mission while all the AC focused on GWOT. I'll believe the whole "one team one fight" line better when you see M-Day officers going on COTTAD orders to AC units for commands and KD assignments and NCOs going to the AC NCOES courses, etc, will I feel that there's been a perception shift. This was the way it was before 9/11 and how it is now, just for different reasons. More than once downrange, I had an AC Soldier tell me, "I don't know or care how you do it in National Guard land, but in the real Army..." when I arrived or they finally got in theatre, before ever working with me. It seems to be an ignorance about how RC units train/operate, or they just don't care.

And when AC funding is at stake, they'll sacrifice RC units/pax/readiness.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2015 3:15 PM

2015-09-07T15:15:32-04:00

Simple answer: ignorance. I've been AD and NG currently. When I was AD there was all kinds of smack talked about RC troops. But when I went to war (as NG), not a single AD troop bitched cause without us, there wouldn't have been any rotating home after 12/9 months.

They can't understand that we have to meet the very same standards as they do for their careers while maintaining our civilian career as well.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Sep 7 at 2015 3:27 PM

2015-09-07T15:27:52-04:00

As an MP, I treat NG and Reservists as civilians unless they are on orders. They don't even have to worry about UCMJ unless the are on orders but that besides the point. If someone wear's the uniform I will treat them like service members and not some second class.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 1:15 AM

2015-09-08T01:15:25-04:00

Because the old bunch use to be nothing but s bunch of drunks and bbq blunders, and as traditions goes it is pasted down from generation to generation of the AD that's how all Reservist and Guards Units are.
But, times are changing, and with the past wars and conflicts this country has been involved in the AD are learning that the Reservist and Guard units are a squared away bunch. Actually almost 60% of the Reservist and Guard personnel are prior AD service members.
To educate the younger generation (who listen to their old grandpas and daddy's who served back in the day tell stories). Units S-3 and the Post/Camps to to have a refresher induction class which should have been introduced in basic and AIT. Exposing the structure and strength of the military forces.
It is knowledge and written that during time of conflict it war that 70% of the fighting force on the front lines and rear support are Reservist and Guard Soldiers. Those AD units that rotate out or AD S/M that take R&R are being supported and relieved by Reservist and Guard Soldiers and Units. If it wasn't for the Reserve and Guard, the AD units would be best to death on the line, because that's where they will stay until it's over or their done in for.
So, when the AD talks smack, and your wearing your tabs and patches. Just smile and say; "yeah Battle we sure kicked some butt over there didn't we."
If there not patched just smile and walk off and laugh. but the best thing is educating them and teach them you all wear the same color. The name tapes are the same and everyone is sent to the same battle line sooner or later.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Sep 8 at 2015 1:30 AM

2015-09-08T01:30:36-04:00

I wasn't Army, but I saw some of the same stuff in Navy attitudes. The reason was that experience wasn't equitable. Reservists had to be reminded or retrained every time they came aboard on how to do their jobs during those weekend training days. The hand holding got frustrating after a while of seeing under trained personnel revolving on and off ships and then seeing them again in a month or two still not understanding their jobs.

Response by SGT Shawn Schweinberg made Sep 8 at 2015 2:38 AM

2015-09-08T02:38:59-04:00

You are correct Chief regarding the NG and Reserves. It all depends on leadership, Moral, and Training. I've grown to learn that it doesn't matter what branch, or if they are Active or not.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 3:22 AM

2015-09-08T03:22:52-04:00

It's ironic that I am sometimes very disappointed by the quality of Soldiers and Units I come into contact with from AD. I came from the active side, and spent my time with a disciplined and well trained company. I assumed the whole active force was like that. Deployment after deployment prove that my assumptions were incorrect. We're utilizing equipment from a sister battery (AD), and I've never seen equipment so poorly maintained and a lack of technical knowledge at the NCO and higher levels. At this point I've seen it all, studs and duds.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Sep 8 at 2015 8:45 AM

2015-09-08T08:45:17-04:00

Just a perspective from my deployment, the reserve soldiers seemed to put themselves in the backseat to active duty soldiers. I imagine since they do their military jobs less often then the active component they are less confident in their abilities and in their knowledge of regulations. They are still great soldiers, but I feel that some of this perceived negative treatment is due to the position they put themselves in.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 8 at 2015 2:25 PM

2015-09-08T14:25:34-04:00

Sir, I'm going to chalk this up to interservice rivalry's. In the 90's we (the AC guys) made loads of fun at the expense of the NG (No Go's) and the Reserves (Weekend Warriors). This continued on through my reclass where I went through 25B school in 99 and where the AC could be penalized for failing the APFT or even sent home for failing school tests, the NG/RC troops couldn't. That is frustrating to see. Moving on, I got to see again where there was a divide between us when I was at RAF Molesworth. This time it was the level of training. The NG/RC troops had a BIG leg up being they usually served as contractors for various defense contractors and knew LOADS more than the AC component. When I deployed, I saw it for the last time with the SF groups there. The active guys were typical snake eaters and we were "lesser common" Soldiers and treated as such. In came the NG 19th and 20th groups and it was like night and day compared to their AC counterparts. The SF commo SGT took me and showed me how to use the "lovley" radios we all had to where there were features I never knew existed or was able to use what I new better. They would take the time to show us better ways to shoot, move, and communicate. They took us IN and didn't see us as "big Army rejects", like the AC SF troops did. In order to make this "ONE" force, it takes buy in. I made my NG/RC jokes and still do, but I know without them, I wouldn't be here typing because anyone that served in TF Phoenix knows it was all NG/RC led. The Army needs to promote one force rather the component force it does now. I've never heard the Jarheads make a big stink of their AC vs. reserve componets...but I don't hang with many jarheads anyways. We're one force, and it takes all of us to make it run....except for the Coast Guard. Gotta bust chops on the Coasties.

Response by CSM Michael Chavaree made Sep 8 at 2015 9:51 PM

2015-09-08T21:51:55-04:00

I did 2 years 11 months and 26 days in the NG, doesnt even compare to my active experience. There are some great NG Soldiers out there, but for the most part I have never seen a NG unit with the same capability as what I have seen on active. But my experience is pretty much limited as I have only been in units with no NG equivelant. As far as schools are concerned, I dont think NG should have priority or equal order of merit as the Active Soldiers may be relying on that school to be fully mission capable in a unit that needs that capability to remain an asset to the DOD. (airborne school for an 82nd paratrooper on GRF is kindova big deal).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 10:34 PM

2015-09-08T22:34:04-04:00

I may not have been in as long as some, going on 8 yrs in the reserves, mobilized for 5 of them now. In that time while working with the active component, I heard plenty of reserve jabs and jokes, as expected, but a strong work ethic, keeping up your physical fitness, and staying on top of your education/schools doesn't go unnoticed. Respect can always be earned. You hear things all the time-"Reservists are lazy. They don't know what they're doing. They don't do PT. Their uniforms look messy." The list could go on. The best thing you can do is prove those individuals wrong. Stay proficient in your MOS. Don't become complacent with where you are. Stay motivated. Be the solution to the problem, not the catalyst.

Response by 1SG Adais Garcia made Sep 9 at 2015 4:31 AM

2015-09-09T04:31:56-04:00

We are all the Same force just different mind sets they do their get up every day and reserve and Guard do it once a weekend but what todays Regular Army Generation does forget is that most of the Reserve and Guard were once former Full timers as well just different mind sets that's all We are still one Huge force all wearing the same uniform HOORAH

Response by LTC Hillary Luton made Sep 9 at 2015 10:47 AM

2015-09-09T10:47:13-04:00

Chief, I'm terribly sorry that you have had that experience. I guess I should consider myself fortunate. I have very rarely, if ever, encountered the attitude from my Active Duty brethren that would make me feel less than I was. In fact, there was a time in which I would say something like, "I'm just a Reservist" and my AC buddy would set me straight and say, "No, you are a Soldier. You wear the same uniform as me." During deployments, I was always treated with respect by my AC counterparts and never treated as inferior simply because I was in the Army Reserve. As an AGR working for FORSCOM, I was always treated like everyone else. In fact, I mentored 20 AC commanders and they all knew I was AGR. They still reached out to me for support and advice.

I was certainly not the perfect officer, but I always found if I treated others with the respect they earned, no matter who they were and if I made it quite clear I was very capable of doing my job just as good (and occasionally better) than fellow PAOs, I never had a problem. I've always been a firm believer that people will treat you how you let them treat you.

During my last deployment, we originally worked with the 1ID and later worked with the 28ID. Shortly before departing the camp, the CoS from the 1ID and I were chatting about how much we enjoyed working with each other. He then made the comment, "Gus (yes, that is my nickname) I have to say, you always came across as confident, but never cocky." I will never forget that compliment, because it reminded me that is what professionalism is.

If you show confidence in your ability to do your job and don't allow yourself to feel inferior, you will be treated as an equal. We may not get the same amount of training or equipment as the AC, but we can still be just as effective.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 2:40 PM

2015-09-09T14:40:03-04:00

Simple,

A significant number of military leaders value physical abilities above all others, while the NG/RC Soldiers are vastly superior to AC Soldiers in many aspects, (Engineering officer with most of my NCO's as construction foremen way more skills than any AC construction unit because they aren't legally allowed to construct significant projects) We are uniformly sub-par when it comes to PT, so the shortsighted Jock's and bullies who typically tend to be loud-spoken rule out the common sense Soldiers.

Almost all senior leader's O5+ are either on board with the reserve component or are quiet on the subject.

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Sep 9 at 2015 8:16 PM

2015-09-09T20:16:20-04:00

Simple, active duty gets 1st priority.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 1:55 AM

2015-09-10T01:55:34-04:00

The Reserves and NG need to hold their leaders to the standards, plain and simple. Too many times I see NCOs not knowing the basics of leadership. Too many times I see NCOs not in compliance with HT and WT. Too many times do I see NCOs not passing the the APFT. Too many times do I see NCOs avoiding NCOESs. And you know what happens? NOTHING and these are just the NCOS. So how can you lead or enforce the standards if you can't meet the standards? There is no punishment or discipline in this world and why do we not encourage these Soldiers to PCS more? Why is it possible to move from PVT to 1SG in the same unit? Why don't the Reserves or NG promote out of the unit? Most reservists are lazy, not all but most, and they continuously look for shortcuts like coming in during the week to take bogus APFTs. Hold your Soldiers to the standard then you'll see our image improve. Keep babysitting the terrible Soldiers then we'll forever be second class!!

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 10:15 AM

2015-09-10T10:15:58-04:00

Agreed 100%... I've been bumped from my WOAC twice because I'm a Reservist (also with AD time prior to joining the Reserves). The reason I've been given both times - Active Duty take precedence for advanced course seats... So, I submitted my name to attend specific course dates a year in advance (since I need to coordinate with a civilian job), but I get bumped the month before for an AD Soldier who waited until the last minute? Yes, makes perfect sense.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-09-10T18:32:56-04:00

good question
any AC Service member who thinks that we has an outdated concept of the reserve Component
NG Soldiers have been 1st Responders on 9/11, OIF vets and OEF Vets (my mentor as an example of this ) while holding down a career and a family. How many AC Personnel can say that ?

Response by SGT Carissa Lara, RCS made Sep 11 at 2015 12:28 PM

2015-09-11T12:28:35-04:00

I was active duty of a little over 11 years. I transitioned to the reserves about a year ago. So far my experience in the Reserves has validated my negative opinion of them while I was on active duty. Granted, I'm really hoping it's just my unit that's this bad and not the whole thing. My husband, who spent about 15 years in the Reserves, Tells me my unit is the worst he's heard of.
Customs and courtesies are very relaxed. Uniform and hair standards are not enforced. Officers and NCOs don't take care of their soldiers. And it feels like they don't plan anything. We do next to no MOS training. Every time I make the 3.5 hour drive to drill I feel like I'm doing it for nothing. I'd rather sit around and do nothing at home.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2015 4:42 AM

2015-09-12T04:42:30-04:00

All I know for sure is that I can think of only two places where I wasn't told something to the effect of: "Hey, you're pretty sharp for being in the Guard!"

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 7:33 AM

2015-09-23T07:33:12-04:00

Reserves and NG are treated poor in the most weird ways. I have 9 years between three branches and I see it so often. Being I am AGR near an Active Instillation, when my patch is seen or I mention I am AGR I see the tempo of them helping me or even their attention to what I am saying demenish. Even deployed, as must as my units had to offer we were questioned until my detailed soldiers started taking over more cross tasking with Host Nationals because the Active MOS exposure was so limited. You have to walk in our shoes to truely understand the headache.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 1:31 PM

2015-09-24T13:31:02-04:00

I believe there are multiple reasons for the attitudes that go BOTH ways. The active duty does a great job with repetition. Where as most RES/NG soldiers have a better understanding and ability to think on the move in the senior leadership positions and it probably doesn't go over well. I have seen this throughout my career in maintenance. In many cases it is the BIG Army's fault, they put a kid through two months training and come out a mechanic. I have seen many times a career soldier retires or a over ten gets out and comes to a dealership and talks a great game until it comes time to diagnose a simple problem without a TM. Most cases they last two months if there lucky. I almost feel sorry for the guy that preaches he was a mechanic in the Army for so long, but until reality hits him he doesn't understand its a totally different world on the civilian side. Your not guaranteed a job for three, four , five or six years. It may be just one chance and your done. Go back into the military that you thought was so bad. I would take a Reservist or National Guardsman any day in the technical field both on and off the Army field over a active duty soldier in my field.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 8:33 PM

2015-09-24T20:33:55-04:00

I got to pull that one on a LTC. He told me he didn't want me providing anesthesia to him. I told him, "Sir, I can go get someone who doesn't do this often however, I do my army job 60-80 hours a week. I am a reservist that practices in my profession daily. I am pretty sure you want me to do it for you and not someone who does paperwork all day, every day."

He was convinced.

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Sep 26 at 2015 7:10 AM

2015-09-26T07:10:19-04:00

My guess is that such Active-duty Soldiers see themselves as "full-time" while the Reserve and Guard are "part-time".

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 11:10 AM

2015-09-30T11:10:25-04:00

So true! I hung an ARNG banner up by my office. I was told that it could be an EO complaint! I was later asked by the XO, under duress I'm sure, to take it down because it was offensive and unprofessional. ( this was a professionally done cloth banner by ARNG) I took it down and put it across my wall in my office. I'm proud to serve in the ARNG and consider us to be the best suited, adaptive leaders that the Army is privileged to have!

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Sep 30 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-09-30T14:52:49-04:00

When I went back on active duty, I was an E6. And a lot of the people I worked with were pissed off that I was not demoted.

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Oct 3 at 2015 2:39 PM

2015-10-03T14:39:39-04:00

I was Regular & Reserve & never in my 8 years noticed any difference as far as treatment was concerned....

But in the field Regulars performed much better than Reserves who got some kidding because the Marines put so much emphasis on physical conditioning.. And some Reservists didn't miss too many meals & it showed.

Don't know if this helps this discussion but thought you might like to know about the Marine Regulars vs Reserves...

Response by SGT Jaime Becerra made Oct 5 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-10-05T14:43:20-04:00

unfortounately this is true in many ways.
Budgeting is a major concern in many units and i have found being in a HIGH SPEED unit is best .
but active duty components work all month and as a reservist we have to work on our OWN time to maintain the standards and do our mission requirement over a weekend.
people do not realize a 40 hour work week or more and a family life and then have to drill over a weekend what it takes.
airtaz

Response by SSG(P) Brian Kliesen made Oct 8 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-10-08T13:32:24-04:00

The Reserve Component will always be the ugly stepsister of the Active Duty and National Guard. The Guard has personnel in place to 'work the system' to their states benefit. More missions = More Money = More Prestige to the state and the cycle continues. The Reserves will always get the hand me downs of active duty only when it is their benefit to do so. Training slots, schools, missions, equipment all are sorely lacking. We in the reserves only find out about opportunities at the last minutes where we are expected to drop everything and go to a school or training. Why, because we only find out about extra seats at the last minute and as we have civilian jobs, families, etc., we can't 'up and leave' to go to a school the next day. When we are able to go to the school or training, we are often un or under prepared and our fellow soldiers see this. I have been in for 10 years and still haven't seen all my TA-50 or a complete set of ASU's because my unit is unable or unwilling to make the proper order. To go to WLC I had to borrow equipment from others to have the minimum. Air Assault? Can't go, you don't have the minimum equipment. The new OCP Uniforms? the Reserves will be lucky to see these in 5 to 7 years. Mobilized to Active Duty, 'Can I go to this class?', 'No, you are in the Reserves'. 'But I am mobilized to Active Duty', 'No, you are an Activated Reservist'. No school/opportunities for you...

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 6:03 PM

2015-10-08T18:03:16-04:00

Only being out of OSUT since May, being a ARNG soldier, I've already seen this first hand as well. Hell, this attitude was happening during OSUT from the Active guys to the reserve/NG guys. I agree with you, Sir.

Response by SFC Clark Adams made Oct 10 at 2015 6:54 AM

2015-10-10T06:54:42-04:00

As an Old Guy who served on AD during the VN War , I recall that a vast majority of NG/AR Soldiers were "Draft Dodgers" who were just going through the motions to avoid the war. I went through BCT with only 20-30 RA Trainees the rest were RC and many were college students most were at least PV2 and a few PFC's due to the long wait to get BCT slots. I took note that when they did AT most of them slacked off and you couldn't count on them to complete the tasks assigned to them for many stated reasons unit meetings, not qualified, going on sick call or just not caring. Back in those days being sent to AD was a form of punishment for RC Soldiers who failed to participate in UTAs. So we on AD didn't meet the best of RC Soldiers when these people reported to our unit. These negative encounters of RC Soldiers poisoned the well for me so by time I became an NCO I just wrote off RC Soldiers when they came for AT. I can never recall dealing with a fully mobilized RC unit while I was on AD. I think it wasn't until the threat of the Draft and the war ended the RC began filling up with people who did want to be there, but the actions of past RC Soldiers/units stuck. Remember most of the senior General Officers of todays military were LTs back when RC Draft Dodgers were still prevalent in the ranks. So that being said I think what isn't understood or part of Soldiers sphere of influence won't be well received or readily accepted, which is what I think is a major part of the AD/RC disconnect. Also Title 34 vs Title 10 service laws ignorance exacerbate this disconnect. Just my $.02 from the sidelines.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2015 10:42 PM

2015-10-10T22:42:52-04:00

One problem for Army Reserve/Guard is that the NCOs need their schools to get promoted. Sometimes their is no money to send them to the required schools. Less of a problem for AD soldiers, because they are already receiving their. Some may not even need travel pay either if they are on a large installation that conducts the NCO prof. development schools.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2015 3:46 AM

2015-10-11T03:46:04-04:00

I can tackle this one. I'll tell you why, it is because you are cops, engineers, CEOs, nurses and so on. All of that has nothing to do with being say an Infantryman, or a Tanker, or a whatever. The greatest asset of a Reservist or a National Guardsman is not their duty MOS, it is what they do in their civilian life. The active duty don't realize this and the Reservists/National Guardsman often fails to capitalize on this. When you do something part time, it is hard to justify the image that you are just as good as someone who does it full time. However, when you take a step back and realize that your civilian credentials, in combination with your military experience, are what make you valuable and you sell that to active duty commanders then you become an asset. Own what you are and stop being a victim.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2015 4:27 AM

2015-10-19T04:27:33-04:00

Im currently in Ammo company, which there are not very of. In the last 2 years we have done 4 Ntc missions, with another one coming up. I've got to say that I have been impressed with how well respected my units been by active units during these rotations. There's no doubt my Soldiers know their job and put safety first. I've enjoyed supporting different BSBs and working with Active duty ,
Reserve and guard units with different CSSBs.

From a training and readiness standpoint, it's always a struggle for guard and reservist to get the same experience as active when your time , available resources and funding are so limited. We do the best with what we have. Respect just goes back to the golden rule.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Oct 19 at 2015 9:33 AM

2015-10-19T09:33:48-04:00

I spent 915 days in Vietnam in the Navy River Patrol. We had naval Reservists with us, who did the same jobs we were doing. Later in my life I would spend 11 years in the Marine Corps Reserve and 10 with the New York Army National Guard. The point is, I got to see it from both prospective. Most of the resistance to the Guard and Reserves comes from people who never spent time in combat. I'm not talking about serving in a combat zone, I mean in actually combat. When the chips are down no one gives a shit if your active, reserve or guard---Except some pogy-bate shit-bird who hides in the rear. and then tells stories about other peoples experiences

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 4 at 2015 12:19 PM

2015-12-04T12:19:31-05:00

Some of us on AD were egocentric assholes.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2015 10:26 AM

2015-12-28T10:26:49-05:00

Ignorance mostly

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Dec 28 at 2015 6:23 PM

2015-12-28T18:23:26-05:00

Because historically the Guard and Reserves has earned its reputation. General Officers with in many states are chosen by the Governor, the state legislature, or in one State Publically elected, another State has given a State Adjutant General a Third Star he can wear in the state, but was only federally recognized as a two star. Misappropriations of funds, how many states have a Taj Mahal somewhere in their state where funds were siphoned off from training areas to fund some pet project? How many National Guard or Reserve Units have gone somewhere and pulled a major bone head issue?

I was active for 10 years in Field Artillery, I saw combat arms NG units that were not up to snuff. These were units with lineage that went back to the 13 colonies, and were jacked up. Granted that was the 1980's.

What changed my mind was working Automotive maintenance. I got to see an area where reservists/guardsmen walk all over the RA. In recent years I have watched the RA look down their noses, yet the Guard reserve often times make them look slow at things we weekenders do as a full time job.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 22 at 2016 4:10 PM

2016-01-22T16:10:55-05:00

Some of us are egotistical jackasses.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2016 4:36 PM

2016-01-22T16:36:30-05:00

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that since they are stuck on a base this automatically makes them feel like they are giving more to their country. I know plenty of reserve/National Guard units that have some pretty high speed drills leading up to a deployment. This also includes spending almost a month at NTC and spending a majority of each month leading up to a deployment training and going to schools. But like you said, not all active units are like this, just some. But the same can be made about many infantry units in any component that look down on support MOS's . It's a vicious cycle anyway which way you put it. More so than other branches, the army as a whole is a big ego contest sometimes.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 3:08 PM

2016-01-25T15:08:37-05:00

I was called up in 2005, sent to Ft. Jackson along with 88 fellow reservist to supplement the staff. Most of us were assigned to Bravo company and worked the ranges. Our Active duty 1st SGT went out of his way to make sure we were treated with respect. After about a month, at lunch he told me he wished he had more of us, we would do what ever it took to complete the training even if some of us spent a few bucks out of our own pockets, some of this AC guys were more worried about when it was time to go home than complete the training mission.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Apr 26 at 2016 6:35 PM

2016-04-26T18:35:42-04:00

2/3 of my MOS is RC (FACT). The overwhelming majority of the ones I've worked with knew their jobs. RC Soldiers often know their jobs extraordinarily well, especially when their civilian job overlaps their CMF.

That said, it is the "profession of arms", and there are certain elements of it that require full time commitment to master. Or to even be proficient at.

If called upon to execute a Joint Forcible Entry, you would call upon the 82nd (All the way!) and not the 29th ID (Let's go!). I am a proud alumni of both.

Now for the multiple deployments to Bosnia at the turn of the century (that seems odd to say, huh?), I believe that the Soldiers of the 29th were ideally suited to that role, and continue to be well-suited for lower-intensity conflicts than many if not all of our AC formations.

Within my CMF, we did our RC brethren a grievous disservice when we severed ourselves from their acquaintance and handed all of their training and equipping to USARC, which also made what used to be second-nature: training with each other, common schools etc..., a much more difficult process. And as I mentioned before, with 2/3 of our mass in the RC, we separated ourselves from roughly 2/3 of our organizational knowledge. Dumb move.

Look at it this way: most AC Soldiers will spend more time training with NATO partners than our own RC. It's no wonder the RC seems foreign to them.

Response by CW3 Kim B. made Apr 7 at 2017 12:35 AM

2017-04-07T00:35:42-04:00

Look at the RC/NG billeting, equipment etc and you will see that the Army system encourages separate treatment. Some of the billeting and training environments are required but not all. Training for mobilization should just be considered as a training cycle for the reserves, instead many time the reserves receive substandard training and are not treated with same respect as AC personnel. I have seen this through a 28 year career as an AC, NG, and AR Soldier. It is not necessarily the individual Soldiers but the Army system that promotes this different treatment.

Response by 1SG Thomas Griffiths made Apr 19 at 2017 9:04 AM

2017-04-19T09:04:00-04:00

Every element is important. Remember there have been more reserved and Guard boots on ground in the middle east since 9/11 than active. A good way to look at the difference between the Soldiers is that most Guard and reservist join for the college benefits and after thier commitments are both civilian and military professional were most active personnel are lucky to even go to classes on thier 4 years commitment and are now 4 years behind thier pear's when they have to look for work.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2017 1:51 PM

2017-04-20T13:51:01-04:00

I agree wholeheartedly! The reserve components deserve the respect and gratitude of their AD counterparts. I have 15 years with 4 years AD. The difference in benefits is astounding especially when it comes to permissive TDY at the end of an AD period! Why does the active component soldier need MORE time than the reserve soldier to get their affairs in order to go back to a sometimes non-existent job!!! They need us and should act like it.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 25 at 2017 10:33 PM

2017-04-25T22:33:29-04:00

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) 1st Thanks for your service. Yes there is a condensing view... But, in most branches, we can't make it without our reserve and ARNG brothers. Most support branches have 60-80% of their strength in the guard and reserves.

So, these are my thoughts...

I can only speak from my perspective and experiences... I knew a CPTs/MAJs who were completely incompetent (more than one) who got out after Desert Storm (drawdown) and even after that... and re-emerged in the guard, reserves, and/or AGR... They got out because they were not competitive in the Active force. Many of them were promoted ahead of me in their compos... I am a due course officer by the way...

While deployed I worked with countless guard and reserve units, and in most instances they struggled to meet standards. I understood, as we had much more time to train and get ready, as that is all we did before we got a Warno... But, whenever they were confronted, they made excuses.

The other issue I have seen many times is the guard and reserves want to be part of the Army when it suits them, but they quickly let you know they are not in the active Army when it does not. So, you can't have it both ways. Either are all in, or you are not.

Nevertheless, I have nothing but love and respect for our reserve and guard brothers, as we can't do anything with out them. During OEF and OIF I learned they many many hardships and difficulties they face... most of which I never really dealt with. On most days, it seemed the 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year life was much harder and unpredictable than mine. I have nothing but respect for the guard and reserve....

Finally, having never been in your shoes, I have often wondered how the guard and/or reserves view the active force.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2018 8:52 AM

2018-01-09T08:52:56-05:00

I spent 13+ years on Active Duty in the Corps. Got out for 9 years to raise my son. Wanted back in, but the Corps does not take old men; even when you have a lot of specialties.

Went to the Guard and still in the Guard. As with Active Duty Units...Guard units are hit or miss.

At the end of the day..it really boils down to one thing... Active Duty or Guard. Poor leadership = Poor Unit. NCO's are the backbone. If you have a unit that has Poor NCO's... you have a Poor Unit.
Best Example was my battalion; 1st Bn 9th Marines at Horno in 86. Bad NCO's and Senior Leadership = Bad unit. Next Training Cycle - New BC/Sgt Major/First Sgt's/Company Commanders/SNCO's and NCO's. = Best Infantry Bn in the Corps (on the west coast anyway - don't want to pick a fight with Camp Swampy (even though I was stationed there for 7 years and 4 deployments))

Now I am in the Guard. Hot and Cold. Iraq Deployment with Mostly good NCO's = Mostly Good Deployment.

We don't train like fight. We don't do the basics over and over. We are stuck doing SRP after SRP after SRP. CEI/PHA's/Sensitivity/SuicidePrevention/insert more useless classes here that take away from "Lethality Training." Don't get me started on using Behavioral Health to get out of everything!!! - the Magic "No-Go" bullet.

NCO's need to step up...or you need to be E-4's.

I am frustrated by what I see, experience and try and correct over and over!
We need to change the way we train in the Guard...Yes I have a plan for that.

Response by SPC David Willis made Jan 9 at 2018 4:55 PM

2018-01-09T16:55:26-05:00

When I was AD I had two experiences with NG soldiers. One hit the 911 button on a BFT spinning us up for QRF needlessly as well as taking air assets away from where they would potentially be needed. The other experience was an NG convoy firing at our COP thinking our tower was an enemy position. So we were all pretty biased against the NG (rightfully so Id think). BUT when I switched to the guard I was a team leader in a squad that was just as good if not better at some things than my AD unit is.

Now as far as schools and equipment go that's probably just a state funded vs federal funded issue.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2018 12:01 PM

2018-10-10T12:01:21-04:00

I agree that we as National Guard are just as good as the active military. We have just as much training and knowledge

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Oct 10 at 2018 12:25 PM

2018-10-10T12:25:15-04:00

A lot of it stemmed from the fact that few National Guard and Army Reserve were mobilized during Vietnam and service in either was considered almost draft dodging. The fact was that most of the post Vietnam Senior Leadership had that Idea instead of looking at the Historical record that in all the previous large conflicts, Guard units were often the first units in combat. While some of that was changing when I joined in 1982, if you look at the first large scale mobilization during Desert Storm, the Round Out combat units were not deployed with their divisions and no Army National Guard combat unit was sent to Saudi Arabia, although several were taken to NTC and abused as an excuse not to deploy them (I had just come back from a round out at NTC and can personally tell you how many Active Units get their asses kicked their at the time, All Of Them). It's simply not possible today to operate without integrating the Guard and Reserve, but some of the old prejudices still exist. I really didn't hear anything negative about the performance of the Guard in the War on Terror, so hopefully those prejudices are going away.
The funny thing is that in the case of Engineer, Maintenance, Transportation and Medical units, the performance on the Guard/Reserve side was superior to those Active Units. I would have matched my Engineer Company against any on Active Duty, I had real, experienced operators and mechanics and even the 12B's really knew their jobs and took them serious.
The Air Force has always done a better job integrating their Reservist than the rest of the Services.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2018 9:18 PM

2018-10-14T21:18:40-04:00

While at an NCOES course, a have a fellow NCO start slamming the benefits we get in the guard when deployed.
I asked him what is his second job, how much does his house cost, gym membership, medical insurance and so on.
I ask him how much money does loose and how much does it cost him to drive to his unit.
The final thing is I pay more in taxes then I make in the guard so come kiss my ass for the taxes I pay that pay your benefits and pay.
Later I was helping him with 50 cal and he said I can't believe how much I have learned from guard guys.
I told him most of were active at one time.
Nice kid

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2019 6:06 PM

2019-01-26T18:06:56-05:00

You know the interesting thing about this is the fact that my peers that Commissioned into the AC actually are the ones reaching out to me for job opportunities in the civilian sector.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Jan 26 at 2019 10:02 PM

2019-01-26T22:02:21-05:00

Hallelujah! 40 yrs in service as of Sep 2018!

Response by PFC Russell W made Sep 19 at 2019 9:06 PM

2019-09-19T21:06:07-04:00

I dont think that's true however I think the VA treats Reservists who don't have "Active Duty" time as such. Apparently were not "Veterans".

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 23 at 2019 5:30 PM

2019-10-23T17:30:04-04:00

Edit

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 16 at 2020 12:39 PM

2020-12-16T12:39:34-05:00

Short Answer: Math
Pretty straightforward answer on this one. Let's approach this mathematically.

Active duty Soldier: 365 days a year.
Reserve Soldier: 62 days a year (48 MUTA +12 ECT).
Now, we'll use your 37 years as an example. We'll pretend it's all Reserve time for simplicity.

RESERVE: 37 years x 62 actual Army days a year: 2,294 total served days. Divided by 365 actual days in a year: 6.28 years. So in 37 years of Reserve Time, a Soldier will do 6.28 years of actual Army Time.
His Active Duty counterpart with 37 years will do 37 years of actual Army time.

An Active Duty Soldier with 6.28 years is generally a low ranking officer or junior NCO. So a Reserve Officer, NCO, Warrant, etc... with 37 years has as much actual Army time as an Active E-5/6 or junior CPT.
Now this doesn't include prior service or deployment mobilizations, but it paints the picture for the disparity.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2020 10:16 AM

2020-12-20T10:16:31-05:00

There’s always the perception the Reserve and Guard Members aren’t as good as the Active Component.
I’ve always loved the challenge of proving them wrong.

Response by SP5 Alesia Williamson made Feb 19 at 2021 11:39 AM

2021-02-19T11:39:27-05:00

So So correct, I witnessed this myself while serving in the Army Reserves on Active duty. My unit being treated unfairly. We Put our life on the line just like Active duty with less benefits. And may do longer deployments. I was stationed in Bosnia with an Active duty Air Force unit the deployment was 4 months. My Reserve unit was 6 months an we worked our butts off. My Unit filed a complaint on the Band Unit in Germany. While we where on our way to Bosnia our Unit had to stay in the Band Unit barracks. We where treated very unfair. For starters women an men had to live together in the Attic. We made the best of it. But the kicker was being told we couldn't use the latrines on the 5th 4th 3rd 2nd flr. We had to walk from the 6th floor to the 1st floor where the offices where located and used the latrines.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 6 at 2024 2:26 PM

2024-01-06T14:26:04-05:00

I was a commander at Ft Riley and received four Reservist augmentees because we deployed a few soldiers after 9-11. I told the unit that they would be treated with dignity and respect, and they were one of us.

Treating people with dignity and respect is very important to me. We all bleed red.

I was a young Reservist and deployed to Desert Storm with my heavy equipment maintenance unit from San Antonio. Reservists bring a wide skill sets. We were at Dhahran, Saudi Arabia which was a marshalling area. SFC Flores was having his 53rd birthday, so I paid the cooks to bake me a birthday cake for him. This started a tradition of celebrating birthdays during the deployment. We had welders and they turned 55 gallon drums into large BBQ grills. Our sister company was a quarter master unit and gave us steaks and meat for our cookouts.

My fellow soldiers were content doing nothing, but I wanted to stay busy. I would use the machine shop to make furniture and even made a small wooden car with a sail. One day I let the wind take it away into the desert. I also made bench press equipment from scratch. There was not much to do for our machine shop, but SFC Flores tagged me when there was work to do. He wanted to teach me stuff. I smile. He used to call me son and took me under the wing. I wish I would have visited him before I left San Antonio.