Posted on Sep 25, 2015
Why doesn't the Army take pride in their SNCO ranks? For example, how the Navy has CPO inductions and such.
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Promotions
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Soldiers
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 12
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The question now is, why doesn't the SNCO ranks take pride in the Army. We have lost our way with the history, traditions, and courtesies of this profession. SNCOs need to take pride
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SN Greg Wright
SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr - You're not kidding SFC. No WAY in today's PC climate sailors these days wind up with the bloody hands and knees and asses that we did.
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SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr
SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr - You can also tell by the way we address our ranks, US Army E-5 / E-6 / E-7 are all to often referred to a Sergeant ... Master Sergeant I'd say 50 / 50 by title or by Sergeant. The only rank above E-5 that is guaranteed is First Sergeant 1SG / E-8, and Sergeant Major SGM / E-9 even our Command Sergeants Major CSM / E-9 in generally addressed as only Sergeant Major.
The bad part is it goes down the same way ... and past Sergeant we have our Corporals (CPL) and Specialist (SPC) both E-4 then its Private First Class (PFC) E-3 Private (PV2) E-2 and a Private (PVT) E-1 ... but who is in charge of E-4 and bellow? Easy right? The Corporal, Specialist, Private First Class and the Private. Correct ... you take the CPL and SPC out of the mix and you a bunch of PVTs running around like chickens with there heads get cut-off.
Now flip this general scenario to the USMC and:
PFC is telling the PVT to go fill all the water jugs, "yes Private First Class"
LCpL is telling the PFC to get all the MREs, "yes Lance Corporal"
CPL has the LCpL laying out all team / squad/ platoon weapons "yes Corporal"
Sgt walk up to the CPL "Clear & Function Test on every weapon "yes Sergeant"
SSgt stand a side with Sgt, "did you start this?"... "no"... Stay on them and we'll have the jump on the rest of the company I was going to tell you to start"
SSgt reports ready for pre move inspection "Gunnery Sargent"
I think you get the jest of this ... the respect for rank and position has stayed strong the Army was hurt by WWII and there was an attempted to repair; however, the draft for Vietnam help to slow everything way down. "Relax, We got this" ... was a punch to the gut. As the Army trying to stand up in the 70's and 80's later numbers of Drug Use would Late 80's and 90's the NCO Corps was working hard to fix this.
9 / 11
This put a halt on all think moving, buckle down defense, secure as many prim targets ... then OEF begins OCT 2001 followed by big brother OIF begins in MAR 2003.
Now is the hard part ... a large majority of junior enlisted no nothing but how to live & survive Down Range. They have no experience in garrison duties or standards to judge from. The Senior NCOs are going to be forced to work way down low in the trenches again.
As units are being re-established remember that some Soldiers only know the life of down range
The bad part is it goes down the same way ... and past Sergeant we have our Corporals (CPL) and Specialist (SPC) both E-4 then its Private First Class (PFC) E-3 Private (PV2) E-2 and a Private (PVT) E-1 ... but who is in charge of E-4 and bellow? Easy right? The Corporal, Specialist, Private First Class and the Private. Correct ... you take the CPL and SPC out of the mix and you a bunch of PVTs running around like chickens with there heads get cut-off.
Now flip this general scenario to the USMC and:
PFC is telling the PVT to go fill all the water jugs, "yes Private First Class"
LCpL is telling the PFC to get all the MREs, "yes Lance Corporal"
CPL has the LCpL laying out all team / squad/ platoon weapons "yes Corporal"
Sgt walk up to the CPL "Clear & Function Test on every weapon "yes Sergeant"
SSgt stand a side with Sgt, "did you start this?"... "no"... Stay on them and we'll have the jump on the rest of the company I was going to tell you to start"
SSgt reports ready for pre move inspection "Gunnery Sargent"
I think you get the jest of this ... the respect for rank and position has stayed strong the Army was hurt by WWII and there was an attempted to repair; however, the draft for Vietnam help to slow everything way down. "Relax, We got this" ... was a punch to the gut. As the Army trying to stand up in the 70's and 80's later numbers of Drug Use would Late 80's and 90's the NCO Corps was working hard to fix this.
9 / 11
This put a halt on all think moving, buckle down defense, secure as many prim targets ... then OEF begins OCT 2001 followed by big brother OIF begins in MAR 2003.
Now is the hard part ... a large majority of junior enlisted no nothing but how to live & survive Down Range. They have no experience in garrison duties or standards to judge from. The Senior NCOs are going to be forced to work way down low in the trenches again.
As units are being re-established remember that some Soldiers only know the life of down range
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CSM Charles Hayden
SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr Shellback? I have a certificate from: "Domain of the Golden Dragon" (Ruler of the 180th Meridian), re: crossing the int'l date line enroute to Korea on May 24, 1954 aboard the USNS GENERAL WILLIAM WIEGEL!
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SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr
CSM Charles Hayden - "Shellbacks" if is still done is "traditional right of passage" when someone crosses the equator for the first time.
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At the risk of showing my ignorance, what changes during the promotional process in the US Army and USAF, other than advanced responsibilities with each stripe. In the Navy it means a complete change in uniforms, similar to what the Commissioned Officers have and separate messing and living quarters when it is possible. The CPO initiation/induction was countenanced by the Officer ranks, but the Navy management has nothing to do with it. It WAS set up by the E-7-9s and the entire proceedings were conducted in a venue that the average sailor does not see or participate in. It WAS a right of passage that the Navy apparently felt was not inclusive enough and, of course in our new world, not PC since it was not dignified.
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PO1 Charles Kozlowski
I had never made Chief myself, but I do understand a bit of that process after 15 years active duty. I find the recent restrictions on the Navy CPO initiation process to be emasculating to say the least, and takes away from the pride felt from getting pinned. I have little knowledge regarding the other branches, but the Navy has a special niche for "The Chief". They are tasked with both leading Sailors, and training Junior Officers. A good Chief comes prepared with the tools to perform both with rigor, being hard on training and leading, also being the person who takes care of his (or her now) Sailors. Besides, anyone who made the rank had the choice to not participate. I used to laugh when the Chiefs referred to them as E-7, and not Chief.
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SFC (Join to see) - excellent question, which I ask myself often (as an officer coming from the Navy NCO ranks). I always explained to my senior SSGs and even my SFCs that I had work with - about the CPO initiation and the pride one has for making CPO. I always try to add a little more "oomp" to their pride for making SFC...or for the person who is already a SFC, instilling some sense that even though it might be a more common rank in the Army...it's still a huge accomplishment in their career and they should feel accomplished and treat the rank accordingly.
On a side note - When I was a PL, I was also mind blown by the E-4 mafia, and how so many were content with staying at the E-4 rank vs trying to get promoted. I remember talking to my PSG and implementing platoon level NCOPDs, in which all E4 and below in my platoon attended - as I wanted to re-ignite the passion that these guys had when the first joined. It also helped quickly identify who just showed up for a paycheck as well. I remember when I was enlisted - I was always hungry for more responsibility...which is probably why I'm where I am now - still hungry for more responsibility!
On a side note - When I was a PL, I was also mind blown by the E-4 mafia, and how so many were content with staying at the E-4 rank vs trying to get promoted. I remember talking to my PSG and implementing platoon level NCOPDs, in which all E4 and below in my platoon attended - as I wanted to re-ignite the passion that these guys had when the first joined. It also helped quickly identify who just showed up for a paycheck as well. I remember when I was enlisted - I was always hungry for more responsibility...which is probably why I'm where I am now - still hungry for more responsibility!
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PO2 Karl Lehn
Perhaps its time the Army followed our MMarine brothers in addressing everyone by rank. I never witnessed anyonr call , say a Staff Sergeant anything other than Staff or Staff sergeant. Of course there are certain "things" that are different per service branch but instead of addressing ALL sergeants as sergeant perhaps those little "formalities" for lack of a better term should be instituted.
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