Why doesn't the United States Military consider adding electric or hybrid vehicles to their fleet of installation vehicles?

CPT Angela Wilder — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 18:10:09 -0400

As I understand it, long distance driving and infrastructure are a barrier to many civilian consumers, but on-installation vehicles don't travel outside of their immediate vicinity and electric charging stations could be built in the motor pools.

Response by CPT Angela Wilder made Aug 17 at 2021 6:11 PM

CPT Angela Wilder — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 18:11:56 -0400

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/04/oshkosh-delivers-usas-1st-electric-fire-truck/?fbclid=IwAR2jjRhZJYAfVKbQPIDT5oSeXvmzmEgN9WAuAQ7aazWNjYbtf6G6t9MCLz0

Oshkosh Delivers USA's 1st Electric Fire Truck

Last year and last month, I wrote about Volvo Penta and Rosenbauer developing an electric fire truck. They're not the only team in town working to electrify firefighters, though. More recently, Oshkosh Corporation has announced

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2021 6:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 18:23:25 -0400

CPT Angela Wilder good point!

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Aug 17 at 2021 6:36 PM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 18:36:34 -0400

CPT Angela Wilder interesting!!

Response by AN Ron Wright made Aug 17 at 2021 6:49 PM

AN Ron Wright — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 18:49:45 -0400

it would be nice. but is it feasible
America and the world have an issue
there is NOT enough rare earth metals currently in the world to support the amount of electric cars, phones, computers, tablets etc.... everyone is predicting something like 85% of what we do have comes from china so the more electric we have the more we support china
afghanistan is sitting on rare earth metals and guess who the taliban was seen with ... china
then how do you charge them all California has already told citizens to stop charging cars so their rolling blackouts can be reduced texas exposed the flaws with solar and wind not being reliable
until such time as there is a major breakthrough in batteries this will never change

I like the idea i do not like supporting china

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Aug 17 at 2021 6:53 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 18:53:56 -0400

CPT Angela Wilder - I like the concept! For strictly home station uses, I don't see why this wouldn't be a workable option. It's just my own opinion but I think part of the hesitancy is that many service vehicles (pickups, vans, maintenance vehicles, etc) could be sent "downrange" depending on the location and mission requirements. Charging stations may not (and most likely won't) be available whereas POL is more readily obtainable. Also, I can refuel a gas/diesel vehicle in minutes when the "fecal matter has impacted the atmospheric oscillator" whereas most electrics can take hours to fully recharge. Technology advances almost on a daily basis so that may become moot before long as well.

Response by SPC David Batterson made Aug 17 at 2021 7:03 PM

SPC David Batterson — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:03:46 -0400

Two thumbs up. Let's make sure the vehicles have the best batteries and quickest recharge available. And it doesn't have to be made in USA.

Response by Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin made Aug 17 at 2021 7:35 PM

Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:35:13 -0400

They do. A quick search and viola…

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/795307/hanscom-going-green-with-electric-vehicles/

Hanscom going green with electric vehicles

In efforts to save energy, the 66th Logistics Readiness Squadron recently unveiled Hanscom Air Force Base

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Aug 17 at 2021 8:13 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:13:29 -0400

Good Question.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Aug 17 at 2021 8:34 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:34:50 -0400

OK. So maybe I am missing something here. But what vehicles are you referring to? Our TMP motor pool with civilian vehicles was for long-distance official travel. Our bus fleets often traveled local, but was expected to be able to travel greater distances when necessary, including distances up to 400 miles.

Our MP vehicles yes, were installation based, and when they did go off base were to local partners. However they were often kept running for most of a full shift.

And, of course, our tactical vehicles were, well.... Tactical.

Aside from the one staff duty van per unit, which could theoretically be electrified, I am not seeing a great quantity of vehicles here that would necessitate this shift or prove a value.

So what fleet of vehicles should we be electrifying?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2021 8:58 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:58:26 -0400

As an Civilian employee of the Army Ground Vehicle System Center....we are.

Response by CWO4 Terrence Clark made Aug 17 at 2021 9:01 PM

CWO4 Terrence Clark — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 21:01:49 -0400

What would be the benefit?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2021 10:51 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 22:51:47 -0400

Some posts do have them but they are not functional with most units. If a unit was expeditionary then it wouldn't make sense. Some post do use this with their garrison units that support the post or their TMP vehicles that belong to post. A major issue is that you it would take a large investment. The average cost of a fully installed level 3 EV charging station is around $50,000. Every Battalion has their own motor pool. Plus if you needed to charge multiple vehicles at a time due to a BN mission you would have more vehicle down time. It just isn't quite there yet to support a unit. The vehicles that you would use this for would be few and far between.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2021 3:04 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 03:04:21 -0400

Because they're expensive to maintain and create a lot of hazardous waste in the form of batteries.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 18 at 2021 10:34 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 10:34:30 -0400

I have seen several installations using compressed natural gas vehicles in an effort to reduce emissions. I've also seen installations move to electric carts for base employees zipping about working on things. There will most likely be an initiative at some point to move towards electric vehicles for wider use but the existing fleet is still functional and electric vehicles are still relatively expensive. Most bases keeps installation vehicles for a very long time. Look at the gov auction sites and you will see extremely old vehicles except for ones that were damaged

Response by SFC Charlotte Honsinger made Aug 18 at 2021 3:30 PM

SFC Charlotte Honsinger — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 15:30:58 -0400

Excellent point and aligns with the Army's zero base strategic plan end game.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Aug 18 at 2021 4:12 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:12:56 -0400

Over the years the US has looked at various things, I don't recall that any were going to be all that great for a tactical lane. I will say adding terminal to existing facilities can be rather expensive, where as a newer building may be a cost affordable option. I can say the base where I work at as a civilian has tons of electrical vehicles, and IMHO they over priced, and fail often. Those made in the US are often cheaply made and cost almost as much as a regular vehicle.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Aug 18 at 2021 5:12 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 17:12:26 -0400

Best response:
CWO4 Terrence Clark
So, let's have U.S. military even more dependent on China?

Read an article today that only 25% of those own currently own EVs intend to buy another when it comes time to trade,

Response by TSgt Walter Thalacker made Aug 18 at 2021 7:13 PM

TSgt Walter Thalacker — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 19:13:02 -0400

In some ways some installations have already started this. Units are getting or have gotten electric golf carts and the like for running between facilities or across smaller test site compounds. Hybrids are used for many of our commanders so that they can travel to off-base homes. The issue here depends on how the base or post is situated and handles its vehicles. If a location has 2000 vehicles, motor-pool would have to be huge to be the only charging station and then what size substation and if renewable energies used, what size wind/solar farm would be necessary to support it. At our local base, units are assigned vehicles and they're held by each, charging stations would have to be built scattered around for that scenario. The the real world issue of electric infrastructure comes around. States and cities are struggling with space for placement and where the power will be supplied from. Military bases are no different in that regard. POTUS has mandated a portion of vehicles go electric, I'm not aware of what that number is yet but I'm sure its coming to a base near us all. Monies will have to be redirected from training, readiness, T&E, lifecycle management or some other pot to pay for the upgrades necessary, that said, it will be monetarily painful for some folks.

Response by MSgt Frank Askins made Aug 19 at 2021 7:01 AM

MSgt Frank Askins — Thu, 19 Aug 2021 07:01:38 -0400

There is a little more to it than just putting in a charging station in the motor pool. Unless things have changed, the military also works on their vehicles instead of taking them to a local mechanic. Once you have a fleet of electric vehicles, you will also need a crew of mechanics trained to work on those vehicles. Another thought is the cost of repairs, battery replacements, etc.! Don't fret too much...I'm sure Buy'd In, AOC, Sanders, and Milley are already working on turning the military pool into a plug and play station instead of a gas station!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2021 12:08 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Aug 2021 12:08:52 -0400

Fort Rucker has something to that effect. I found a old article.

https://www.government-fleet.com/65729/fort-rucker-to-add-17-electric-vehicles-to-fleet

Another advantage, I assume, is that there are probably savings associated with the limited speed. I imagine a vehicle like that has a less robust engine and other components that are associated with highway speeds.

Just a moment...

Response by MSgt Brian Williams made Sep 1 at 2021 6:44 PM

MSgt Brian Williams — Wed, 01 Sep 2021 18:44:26 -0400

Is the suggestion program still around. I know a MSgt that made some $$ making suggestions like motion detectors in the hallways of billeting.

Response by SGT Gary Stemen made Sep 11 at 2021 3:26 PM

SGT Gary Stemen — Sat, 11 Sep 2021 15:26:48 -0400

dependability for off road usage ,

Response by SGT Gary Stemen made Sep 11 at 2021 3:33 PM

SGT Gary Stemen — Sat, 11 Sep 2021 15:33:04 -0400

vulnerably when charging, lack of range, dependability in the field.....

Response by FN Bryan Kimble made Nov 9 at 2021 9:22 AM

FN Bryan Kimble — Tue, 09 Nov 2021 09:22:13 -0500

Good enquiry. As I read I wonder when electrical powered planes and jets will come into use.