Why doesn’t the US Army’s fireteam not have a Assistant Automatic Rifleman?

Jake Lang — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 01:48:42 -0400

Hello RallyPoint, hope everyone is doing well. My question for today is what the title says, I’ve noticed that Marine fireteams have an assistant auto rifleman that helps carry extra ammo for the auto rifleman. We know that the auto rifleman’s job is to lay down suppressing fire, which does eat up quite the amount of ammo, so why is it that the army doesn’t have one? Is it to keep the number down to an even four? I can only imagine the peace of mind a fireteam would have in knowing that they still have more munitions for their main weapon that helps them maneuver under fire. The question just popped in my head recently, but I can only imagine moments that a fireteam (or even a squad with both SAW gunners) where the problems they would encounter when ammo starts running low for their M249. Anyways, hope all of you are doing well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2020 1:57 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 01:57:02 -0400

There is no Assistant Automatic Rifleman in the USMC, it was removed in favor of a Grenadier. A drum of SAW ammo is not that heavy and doesn't require a dedicated second person to carry it.

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Aug 12 at 2020 2:00 AM

SGT Christopher Hayden — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 02:00:05 -0400

I spent about a year and a half as a SAW gunner (including 12 months of that deployed) and never felt like I needed someone else carrying any ammo for me. A gunner in a team isn't laying down as much suppressing fire as a 240 gunner on a weapons squad would be generally. It's sort of that "in between" weapons system and not something you'd want to be going cyclic on in a firefight unless you knew you'd be getting out of there fast or had access to more rounds than what you're carrying on yourself via nutsacks or drums.

Response by SPC Bradly Martin made Aug 12 at 2020 4:29 AM

SPC Bradly Martin — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 04:29:39 -0400

You’re over thinking this honestly. The m249 is not ONLY for suppressing. Rounds sent down range at particular times make it a force amplifier (makes the enemy think there is more individuals that need to be accounted for). It’s the team leaders job to move each team member and dictate fields of fire, rate of fire, etc. A SAW gunner understands cyclic is an option but not THE option that should be used in a firefight. The 240 however, literally there to chop a house in half. Denying movement is literally the purpose of the weapons system. It’s simply not the purpose of the SAW.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 12 at 2020 5:07 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 05:07:10 -0400

While it is not the case, the Marines no longer have this position. It is the duty of the Gunner to carry the ammo for their weapon. Army Soldier train year round to do their jobs and that includes physical fitness. Soldiers have no issue carrying their gear.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2020 8:45 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 08:45:00 -0400

So most have already answered that an A-gunner isn't really needed for SAW's but I will say that if carrying ammo ever became an issue the rest of the team would haul it. All extra gear and ammo gets spread across the squad regardless of who uses it. Claymores, mortar rounds, optics, water, etc. all get spread out and the same would be true for extra ammo if needed. The same holds true for the 240 gunner to some extent but the SAW just has no one Soldier dedicated to the task.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2020 10:08 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 10:08:20 -0400

A 200 rd drum of 5.56mm is only 7.5 pounds and a SAW gunner will carry 800-1000 rds mission dependant. I say only because every 100rd belt of 7.62 is also 7.5 pounds.

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Aug 12 at 2020 11:23 AM

SGT Philip Roncari — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 11:23:39 -0400

Ah nostalgia, back in the Sixties training with the 4th Infantry Division there was indeed a designated automatic weapon individual/s assigned to platoon/company using the M14 with full auto selector ,don’t remember an assistant though,all that changed with Vietnam and the introduction of the M16 and the M79,missed the hell out of my M14 in any configuration .

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Aug 12 at 2020 12:01 PM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:01:35 -0400

The Army has been doing the same thing as Marine does until after Vietnam. A machine gun crews is either 3 or 4 man team. The assistant machine gunners aside from carrying ammo and spotting target he will have to run back to get ammo. This take away fire power a modern gun (M16) can do comparing to the M1 Garand single shot with 8-round pre-loaded. M249 SAW is a 5.56 air cool, gas operated, belt fed or magazine fed, automatic, assault rifle. The belt contained in the drum which has 200 rounds and an individual basic load for the gunner is 600 rounds or 3 drums. It designed to get rid of runner and spotter which they can help increasing the volume of firepower. That's the logic behind the designing of M249 SAW. There are, of course, other reasons but I am trying to keep it short.

Furthermore, the Army has mechanized infantry and light infantry. The mechanized or Stryker infantry has more ammo in the vehicle, the dismount squad never goes far from the vehicles. The light infantry has supply line (truck) and para-shoot drop. Marine has chopper, and a boat. They also has supply line established if fighting to far inland, case and point Operation Iraqi Freedom. They were down to one 2 litters water bottle and one MRE's a day. Sea Stallion has to sling load everything in support of the fighting units, including fuel for tanks, tracks, and trucks and ammunition for individual weapon and aforementioned.

However, we have come back full circle with the introduction of M240B it's a replacement to M60 (10 years later). I'm not sure about light infantry, but for mechanized infantry one platoon was reduced from two squads to one with three teams in them. One of the team is a support team or machine gun team. Yep, as I said full circle. I don't know the official reason, but before 9/11 we never have enough Soldiers to fill two full squads of eight men. There has been time when we have to borrow Soldiers from other platoon to run a platoon exercise and gunnery.

I have been retired for almost 10 years now and not as an infantryman at that. So, I don't know what has changed since.

Response by SGT Patrick Reno made Aug 12 at 2020 1:06 PM

SGT Patrick Reno — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 13:06:50 -0400

At my first duty station in Berlin. Each platoon had four squads. Three regular squads and a weapons squad. Weapons squad was two M60 teams and two 90 recoiless rifle teams. When I got back to Benning each squad had an M60 team. M60 teams had a gunner and a assistant gunner to carry spare barrel and ammo. While I was at Benning they were just starting to do tests with the Saw. Not sure how squads are set up any more.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2020 2:42 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:42:16 -0400

I think you need to look at the manning for a Marine Corps squad. It is also a larger than an Army squad. I can't say much about the Marines but they have a much different mission set than we do.

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made Aug 12 at 2020 5:15 PM

SSgt Dan Montague — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:15:09 -0400

You are looking too far into this. The A-gunner for a saw was just a dedicated person to help carry extra ammo if needed. The gunner will always carry the A bag and ammo. Anyone in the fireteam can be tasked to carry extra ammo. This is a bit different when you get into the larger 240G when an A gunner is assigned. But not a saw.

Response by SGT Justin Anderson made Aug 14 at 2020 12:55 AM

SGT Justin Anderson — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 00:55:15 -0400

The guys carry their own gear. Depending on the mission or how kinetic the environment is, it would be spread across the team and squads. Your machine gunners shoot way more, the more kinetic, the more ammo. You just spread it evenly throughout the squad. 100rnds a man or what ever you need to do.

Response by PVT John Maloney made Mar 30 at 2021 9:19 AM

PVT John Maloney — Tue, 30 Mar 2021 09:19:53 -0400

Wow, things have changed. Back in the day, the assistant machine gunner had to carry the toolbag with tripod and extra barrel for the M60, plus ammo and their own weapon and gear. Does the SAW come with "extras"?
Speaking of heavy stuff to carry, what does an infantry squad carry for antitank? If you think the SAW is heavy, try humping a 90mm recoilless rifle.