Why has there been no push to authorize tabs or badges for all ASI producing schools (Sniper and Master Gunner just to name a couple)?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 13:34:33 -0400

Response by SGT Edward Wilcox made Jun 7 at 2016 1:39 PM

SGT Edward Wilcox — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 13:39:25 -0400

DO we really need tabs or badges for every school? Doesn't that start to enter the realm of narcissism? "Look at me, I've done something you haven't. Be awed by my accomplishments.". Personally, I think we have too many tabs and badges. Some of them don't even mean what they used to.

Why? Because we really don't need more crap on our uniforms.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 1:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 13:45:19 -0400

like he said we don't need tabs for every dam school out there, I understand there are some Bad A** schools that don't have them but hey man it is what it is. If you need to feel a tab on your shoulder then go to a shoulder or chest candy school.

Response by SFC Matthew Mason made Jun 7 at 2016 1:59 PM

SFC Matthew Mason — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 13:59:33 -0400

Tell me you are joking?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 2:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 14:08:02 -0400

Because creating a tab just to create a tab would be ridiculous. There is no need or reason to do so. They're not scout patches. They are tabs to identify specific types of units of assignment, with the exception of the Ranger tab. And there are already enough badges out there. No need for more

Response by SGT Ryan Fleek made Jun 7 at 2016 2:16 PM

SGT Ryan Fleek — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 14:16:47 -0400

Priority target of a sniper, is other snipers. The instructors drilled in into our heads to not make ourselves obvious that we were snipers. Why make yourself a target? As for Master Gunner, I'm sure its a difficult school, but the one I knew, was a complete shit bag who would start and finish every sentence with, "well in MG school..." Badges and tabs are meant to be rare because they distinguish someone for something that not a lot of people do. Don't turn uniform flare into a participation trophy.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 2:25 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 14:25:43 -0400

Because they are not that special. I think we have enough badges. We don't wan't to look like a North Korean General.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 2:26 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 14:26:04 -0400

Just a waste of time and money for a bunch of people to say oh look at me I have something on my chest. There is plenty of badges and tabs out there its just on that person to get it and achieve it. If they were going to create or do any kind of badge it should be a combine badge for expert and combat badges as one ie: Combat infantry and Expert Infantry or Combat Medical and expert medical.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 2:41 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 14:41:01 -0400

Because the Army has plenty already. But give it time....I am sure someone somewhere will make a big push.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 3:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 15:15:17 -0400

This is a topic where I believe the USMC is ahead.
As I have been proud of my CIB and my wings - we do not have to make every little snowflake looks different. The more we personalize the uniform, the less uniform it is.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 3:17 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 15:17:07 -0400

dont we have to buy enough crap already?

Response by SSG Nicholas Wright made Jun 7 at 2016 4:56 PM

SSG Nicholas Wright — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 16:56:31 -0400

There are Senior and Master Parachutist badges, so given the increased importance of air mobile insertion I'd like to see badges for Rappel Masters.

Response by MSG Pat Colby made Jun 7 at 2016 6:47 PM

MSG Pat Colby — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 18:47:01 -0400

I was pretty ticked when I was told my 18th Airborne Corps RECONDO badge was no longer authorized. That 17 day course was tougher than Ranger School.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 9:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 21:56:46 -0400

Tabs were created in an Era when they were sewn on uniforms. Those 4 tabs aren't enough? Not only that, but what ever happened to being a quiet professional? Keep yourself humble. Focus on earning tabs you don't have before worrying about why the school you've attended doesn't have one yet.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 11:43 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 11:43:50 -0400

Because there would be too much flair on the uniforms... Isn't having it on your ERB enough?

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jun 10 at 2016 2:12 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:12:52 -0400

Depends on how much you can afford to wear. A good example is the Marines and Navy have a ribbon called the Combat Action Ribbon (used to be exchangeable with the CIB if you went Army Infantry, not sure now) but I kept my CAR, and preferred the EIB. After awhile, there is too much stuff. When I was in Hong Kong, I went to. British outpost on the Chinese border. They thought getting three medals almost immediately for Vietnam, cheapened all awards. I am not defending their viewpoint, especially after seeing the Ghurka's... But to get a ribbon for some of the stuff the Air Force now gives out...makes one wonder wtf is that.

Response by SPC Kirk Gilles made Jun 10 at 2016 7:03 PM

SPC Kirk Gilles — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:03:57 -0400

I like stuff too. One of the reasons for School ribbons (PLDC etc) was for others (Commanders et al) to know at a glance what these soldiers had done with their time. So I hear what you're saying. But I guess there needs to be a limit. The Velco would go from Shoulder to Cuff to hold it all!

Response by SSG Edward Joy made Jun 10 at 2016 7:20 PM

SSG Edward Joy — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:20:26 -0400

They don't give sniper tabs anymore

Response by SPC Gerardo Aguilar made Jun 10 at 2016 8:49 PM

SPC Gerardo Aguilar — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 20:49:39 -0400

Why? Are you serious? It is the US Military. These are warriors, NOT boy scouts. They do not need a flipping merit badge for every flipping thing they do.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jun 11 at 2016 8:56 AM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sat, 11 Jun 2016 08:56:14 -0400

Seems to me the Army has a ton of badges and tabs, at least compared to a Marine who only has his name and rank showing.

Response by CW2 Carl Swanson made Jun 11 at 2016 1:20 PM

CW2 Carl Swanson — Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:20:40 -0400

Nope, sorry. When I was a tanker, we all knew who the MG was and didn't really care if any other MOS knew who he was or not. He didn't need a special badge or ribbon. The only people who need to know what extra ASI you are carrying are the ones looking at your 201 for your board.

I also agree on the USMC. The only people I ever saw with badges were scuba, jump wings and riggers. NO ONE else had any badges.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2016 1:54 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:54:51 -0400

I think if you look closely the have a patch over top of their right shoulder that says it all, it's the most important one ...

Response by Cpl Jon Westbrook made Jun 17 at 2016 3:41 PM

Cpl Jon Westbrook — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 15:41:47 -0400

Two reasons, people want to look good for promotion board pictures(basically they want their entire service record to be broadcasted on their uniform) and because our entire generation grew up getting trophies for everything.

Response by MSG Richard C Finley made Aug 16 at 2016 6:27 AM

MSG Richard C Finley — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 06:27:40 -0400

the Master Gunner Badge request has been going around for 41 yrs trying to get it approved. from my understanding the board that approves the badges is mostly Infantry. until someone gets over the fact that Armor was an Inf step child in WW I it never going to get approved

Response by SSG Roy Johnson made Aug 16 at 2016 7:49 AM

SSG Roy Johnson — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 07:49:22 -0400

No Need. If you are good @ what you do the important people{your guys, Officers, and NCO's) will know and will protect you. Your training will be entered in your 201 file. Make us proud! SSG (Ret)Johnson

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 9:32 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:32:03 -0400

I'm one from dropping such things on duty uniforms. I understand dress uniforms for recognizing accomplishments. If wearing it on any everyday uniform is just like putting your d*** on your chest.

Response by SFC James Beason made Aug 16 at 2016 10:31 AM

SFC James Beason — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:31:53 -0400

Why you want badges, you don't need no stinking badges. Seriously a sniper badge in this day and age marks you as a target for terrorists domestic and otherwise, as for a Master Gunners badge , I was a Bradley NETT instructed for about 4 yrs , starting in 82 when they were first fielded, the only difference then between Gunner and a MG, was paperwork and a course about range prep. The term was used to keep the Cav side of the house happy. I've retired since 90, so my info may no longer be valid.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 4:28 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:28:07 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, first and foremost; in recent history, they have been pushing to allow the Sniper, Mike Golf, and Jungle tabs to be worn with ACUs (though nothing has been said about ASU wear). I'm not sure how it is progressing, but it has been discussed multiple times over the last few years, to the point that some of my old NCOs that actually have those tabs were itching to put them on.

Second, on behalf of the rest of the Infantry, I would like to apologize for SFC Mason's crass, disgruntled attitude. As an Infantryman yourself, I am sure you're well aware that he is not a good representation of what our skill set and MOS are about. We are crass, rude and often downright offensive, but NEVER toward one another. I guess some people don't remember the teachings of "Buddies above self." We are all brothers under this cord, and his responses to your genuine curiosity are inexcusable.

Response by SGT Tim Soyars made Aug 16 at 2016 5:53 PM

SGT Tim Soyars — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:53:57 -0400

I have to agree that we have enough tabs and badges. Possible adding a clasp to the Bolo Badge that almost nobody wears anymore because there's no room left on the uniform. I thing the tabs that are authorized now are enough, i.e. Ranger and Special Forces. You can run the Bolo clasps on down the chest, i.e. Rifle, Grenade, Pistol, Machine Gun, Rollerblading, Disco Dancing, (Oops, I digress).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 7:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 07:51:44 -0400

Heard they were pushing for the chance for Master Gunners to be a Warrent Officer since it is a technical skill with a whole separate job title.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Aug 17 at 2016 7:54 AM

CPT Tom Monahan — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 07:54:45 -0400

The Army has too many stinking badges already. Look at the USMC, Navy, Air Force, Public Health Service and Coast Guard and compare their chest and shoulders compared to the Army. It looks like soldiers wear enough extra stuff to make us look like PX heros. Demononstrating a learned skill is more important than announcing you went to school for that skill.

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Aug 17 at 2016 9:19 AM

PO3 Donald Murphy — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 09:19:04 -0400

First of all kudos to the article writer for featuring the best rifle in the world: the M-14. Second, the Germans did that during WW2 and guess what they found out? Captured snipers were usually killed. They also found the enemy focusing its wrath on soldiers so marked. So if it were me...that extra jewelry would go in my shadow box and not on my uniform.

Response by COL R. Bruce Chisholm made Aug 17 at 2016 9:35 AM

COL R. Bruce Chisholm — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 09:35:01 -0400

This issue comes up about every other Chief of Staff, adding expert, combat, or master "fill in the blank". . The branches will send in comments for awarding Master Military Police, Expert Logistician and the like whereby the Infantry and Medics would lose some of what LTG Lesley McNair intended when the distinctive Infantry authorized insignia was established in World War II. The issue dies. It may change. However, I never thought I would see the day males were permitted the use of umbrellas.
Since my only ASI is 3L, Joint Qualified Officer, I'll pass on it being included. I envision a tab in purple letters that says Joint. Opens up too many questions.

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Aug 17 at 2016 10:45 AM

SFC John Fourquet — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:45:41 -0400

THE ARMY HAS TOO MANY TABS NOW. THEY DO NOT NEED ANY MORE. IF YOU ARE GOING TO SCHOLL FOR A TAB YOU ARE GOIN FOR THE WRONG REASON>

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 5:57 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:57:21 -0400

This must come from some without that many ribbons that ish gets expensive buddy and The army along with other services have enough miscellaneous badges already we don't need to add anymore lol if you went to those schools it will show in your training record and on your MBS I don't know if you guys have those but yeah just chill out you will be alright

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 8:40 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 20:40:54 -0400

I have always thought that the difficult job of UPL (unit prevention leader) should have a badge honoring the difficult job of all that ..... Hmmm maybe a rooster lol.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Aug 18 at 2016 12:08 AM

SPC Byron Skinner — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 00:08:11 -0400

Sp4 Byron Skinner…Give it a break guys. Cub Scouts and the USAF need badges to support them because of the lack of self esteem… Infantry and Scouts in my time 11D's now 19D's will always have a fractious relationship. Scouts are jealous of the CIB, the Infantry earns a CIB outside the Gun Shield…Whe Scouts want to get out of the field all they do is have a vehicle malefaction, wailt for the M-88 and get a ride to base camp, hot food, showers, clean uniforms and a full nights sleep…The only way a rifleman (Infantry) get out of the field is on a Dust off, and more likely he will be returning on the mail chopper…Back to C Rat's and night ambushes or recon patrols, Scouts are afraid of the dark.

Response by MSG Richard C Finley made Aug 18 at 2016 4:32 AM

MSG Richard C Finley — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 04:32:33 -0400

we have been chasing our Master Gunner Badge for a approval for 41 yeas. Master Gunners in my time were mostly at Company and Battalion level. eventually it progressed to Brigade, Division and Army hell we even had one at DA when i rotated out of Germany. We are there to train crews and advise Commanders. We do turret mechanic work when fire control problem exist that can't be solved by turret mechanics. And we do the planning for gunnery and present it to the Commander. As I did after returning to my unit. The Bn Cmdr told me you are now the Bn MG and my gunner, my tank has not fired a gunnery in 3yrs fix it. 3 months later we fired high tank in the Bn. The Master Gunner Course was long and hard then but now from what I understand it's longer and harder. Master Gunners need to have the badge approved it's a specialty just like recruiting yeah and even Drill Sargent's.

Response by SPC James Butler made Aug 18 at 2016 12:55 PM

SPC James Butler — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 12:55:16 -0400

https://www.army.mil/article/89644/Senior_leader_pins_Landstuhl_Soldiers_with_space_badges

Senior leader pins Landstuhl Soldiers with space badges

LANDSTUHL, Germany -- During his recent visit to Company C, 53rd Signal Battalion, Lt. Gen. Richard Formica awarded Soldiers with something unique to the Army -- space wings. Formica, commander of U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command & Army Fo...

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Aug 18 at 2016 3:33 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:33:30 -0400

I need a badge!!!!!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 7:01 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 19:01:33 -0400

Who cares really. Do we need a badge for everything?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 12:18 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 00:18:18 -0400

Because the Enlisted Records Brief (ERB) already shows the ASI and when records are reviewed, promotion consideration is given when they serve admirably in those ASI slots verses yahoos who go from school to school to get badges or tabs but their NCOERS are devoid of accomplishments in those ASI capacities (did the Army actually get something from that education & ASI?) Too many hunt schools and ASIs and never return the taxpayers investment in school costs with a tangible dividend to their unit. Frankly, we're starting to look like everyone gets a trophy or badge/tab mentality. I personally won't advocate it when asked inside my CSM mafia family

Response by 1SG Jeremy Plaxton made Jan 7 at 2017 7:46 AM

1SG Jeremy Plaxton — Sat, 07 Jan 2017 07:46:37 -0500

As of my retirement my MOS+ was 11Z5VB4F76B , I honestly believe there are enough tabs, badges, and awards out there. I believe those that exist should be tough to earn, limited in number to avoid the cartoonish effect we've seen in other militaries
.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Mar 3 at 2017 1:52 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Fri, 03 Mar 2017 13:52:47 -0500

Sp4 Byron Skinner Nearly all of these inform decorations have since my era appeared. I can see the moral factor, but fail to see any useful purpose on a field uniform. I do think the enhanced training in areas such as marksmanship, First Aid, Sapper etc. are worthwhile in a sustainable asymmetric combat environment but not so sure about wearing an arm full of tabs and a chest full of badges serves any real purpose in the field. On the Class A's go for it. Long ago the military dress uniform with all of the cords, fruit salad and badges makes the American military look like Latin American law enforcement. Back in the 1950's there was a movement to limit the showing of only six ribbons and earned combat badges on uniforms. As current members of the military can see this modest proposal went no where.

Response by SPC Matthew Birkinbine made Aug 18 at 2017 9:39 AM

SPC Matthew Birkinbine — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 09:39:15 -0400

I'd wear a H8 Recovery specialist tab, if one were authorized. Lol.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2018 11:03 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jan 2018 11:03:11 -0500

Where's the Lean Six Sigma Green Belt badge! or better yet....the belt itself!

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jan 23 at 2018 11:03 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Tue, 23 Jan 2018 11:03:32 -0500

Tabs for school, whistles, bows and funny hats. This is silly

Response by SFC Matthew Mason made Jan 23 at 2018 12:09 PM

SFC Matthew Mason — Tue, 23 Jan 2018 12:09:24 -0500

You seem to not understand the difference between scouts and CAV scouts. Cav scouts units have a large number of Infantry personnel and their primary purpose is mounted recon. This is much different from the Infantry scouts that are primarily dismounted during their mission.

You seem to want to fluff yourself up by pointing out the role of cavalry throughout history. You seem to forget that even though they were fearsome and effective, they still supported the Infantry, period. In this day and age with modern technology this is no longer the case. Your claim that only the best went to Cav is merely an opinion. A false one, but still your opinion. And you’re welcome to it unless you’re trying to sell it as the facts.

Perhaps you cannot fathom the fact that regardless of what you are fed, you serve one purpose and one purpose only, supporting the Infantry.

If you truly believe that ISR is has taken over the role of scouts then you’re sadly mistaken although it does give them an advantage that they were not capable of in the past.

Perhaps instead of getting so defensive about Cav scouts, you should realize that there will always be bashing. It’s the nature of the beast.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2018 5:08 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:08:03 -0500

Lot of MG talk, aren't there different MG courses? Like Bradley, Abrams, and Stryker? So how would a badge work, it would need to differentiate which course the person was a MG, so now that's 3 new badges. Oh but now we left out the light units, so we need the Small Arms MG badge.
The idea of a MG badge seems to be the nature of being in a heavy unit - you don't get as many of the badge producing schools because its a heavy unit. No ABN, no AASLT, SCUBA, MFF, etc... because the unit is to busy at month long gunneries and sweeping track marks off of concrete. Its also a pretty damn sure thing, if you go MG, you will stay in heavy world forever. Like I was saying heavy gets much less opportunity for flashy qualifications. So because someone chose to be in a unit that gets less opportunity we should give them a badge to signify their choice to stay in that kind of unit?
No.
However, there are a lot of badges already, but how many schools are there with no badge.
Jumpmaster, Rappel Master, FRIES/SPIES Master, Master Fitness Trainer, RSLC, ARC, SFSC, Sniper, Mountain Warfare (only the NG can wear it), the rest of the courses at Mountain school, SERE, Evasive Driving, Slingload Inspector, EO, SFARTAEC, TCCC, Foreign Weapons Course, Peculiar Weapons Course, Physical Surveillance, Technical Surveillance. Have I made the point?
CAQC and POQC don't even award tabs or berets.....yet

Keep in mind when many of these badges were created, we didn't have near the amount of courses we do now. It was like jump school, drill sgts, and recruiters at one point. So of course signify a special skillset, but now??? Pull up the ATRRS catalog and try to count the amount of courses there are out there...and that's just Army, let alone the other 4 services (yes I include the Coasties!)

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jan 25 at 2018 7:42 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 25 Jan 2018 19:42:50 -0500

Bad Idea, I didn't want my folks recognized by everybody, we had a hard enough time when folks saw us going to work. Guess no one but me remembers when damn near everybody special had berets- paratroopers, Air Assault, Tankers, CAV, PYSOPS, etc. Before the lid got shut them musta have been 8-9- every color of the rainbow.