Why is adultery a crime in the military?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 11:56:53 -0400

I would like to hear others opinions on this. Im not talking SM and SM because I want to hear more than an "army" answer. Example Soldier has an affair with a Civilian.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 12:04 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:04:25 -0400

Adultry is adultry, regardless if it is SM and civ or SM and SM.

Bottom line is that it is unprofessional and goes against good moral standards. That is the Army answer as well as what I was taught growing up.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Apr 28 at 2014 12:08 PM

LTC Joseph Gross — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:08:55 -0400

In the civilian world you don't have to worry about the good order and discipline of a unit. From that sense it is necessary that adultery be considered a crime. But also note that you never (rarely) see adultery prosecuted unless it is in conjunction with another crime (rape) or it has an actual impact on the unit.

Response by SSG Chris Cherry made Apr 28 at 2014 12:09 PM

SSG Chris Cherry — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:09:19 -0400

I hate to break out the Army Values but it's a simple explanation.

Loyalty, Respect, Honor, Integrity.

You're breaking each of those values when you either cheat on your spouse or knowingly have a relationship with someone else's spouse.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 12:25 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:25:43 -0400

I would say it is because we hold ourselves to a higher standard than civilians. Adultery is a pretty clear violation of our corps values of honor.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 2:55 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:55:04 -0400

Because adultery is counterproductive to loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and personal courage and it jeopardizes the ability to focus on the mission.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 5:25 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:25:13 -0400

I feel like I may have shared this story on here before, but if so, oh well, I'll share it again. I served 4 years. I left after 4 years because the military "lifestyle" wasn't for me. While I know better than to stereotype every servicemember, I will say that MY chain of command, for the most part, was worthless. Completely worthless. 11 years later, working very successfully in the civilian world, I still feel this way.

One such reason that my chain of command was worthless was that we had a LPO (PO1) who reported to the ship from a previous command. He was a newly wed to a girl who he married "only because" he got her pregnant, and this was after a quick divorce from a previous wife (his words, not ours).

Since he was new onboard the ship, there was a certain girl on the ship who had "that" reputation, and everyone saw it. She had her eyes on him. We all warned him of her. He didn't listen. So, without going into all the drama, I'll let your imagination run wild because you probably wouldn't be wrong with your assumptions.

I will say that as a 19-20-21 year old junior sailor, it was VERY difficult for me to respect this piece of TRASH first class petty officer. How could I, in good conscience, trust a word that came out of his lying mouth, when I knew that his personal life was a complete mess? Mind you, my age, and my upbringing (southern bible belt) I didn't believe in a grey world back then. You were either a good moral person, or you weren't. This guy was not. He cheated on his first wife and got another woman pregnant. Married her, reported to another ship, met the questionable girl on the new ship and continued to make bad choices despite the warnings of those of us who told him to stay away from said girl.

I was young. Professionally, I did not have the ability to separate the two. He was a dirtbag in his personal life. I judged his character, and I didnt trust him as my LPO. I knew well enough to "play the military game" and say "aye aye, petty officer" when he told me to do something." but that was it.

So.... I say all that to say that is huge. And it makes me so angry that adultery is against the UCMJ but it gets swept under the rug so easily in order to salvage one's career. You know what? Don't make a stupid choice. It's really quite simple. I made a dumb choice once. I went to Captains Mast. I got busted, and I served my sentence. I didn't make that mistake again. Most leaders screw up. They learn from those mistakes and they move on. They become stronger leaders. The ones who get away with those mistakes do not become stronger leaders though. They become cowards who are in the good old boy network who are protected and showed favoritism, and THAT is a big problem.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 5:42 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:42:50 -0400

Plain and simple: conduct unbecoming.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 6:06 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:06:27 -0400

SFC Desmond T,

Because when we are deployed or held as a POW abroad for a long period of time we don't want our spouses poached by our colleagues or their spouses.

Warmest Regards, Sandy

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 28 at 2014 6:19 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:19:56 -0400

1. Goes against Good Order and Discipline.
2. Morally Wrong. If you breach this Moral Compass what else are you breaching?
3. Working in the Intelligence Field it makes you an easy target for Blackmail.
4. You sure as hell likely to be involved in a Divorce Situation, that takes Money and increases the liklihood of you being recruited to spy against your own country for Money.
5. Lots of states still have on the books laws against "Removal of Affection" which are very rarely applied but can be.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Apr 28 at 2014 6:42 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:42:24 -0400

SFC Thomas,

By your initial post and most of your responses, it appears you're looking for validation for either a personal adulterous affair or a friend's affair...either way, you're not going to receive validation from a professional group; it goes against the Army Values.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 6:54 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:54:07 -0400

Because it is unprofessional.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 7:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:48:44 -0400

Adultery is not compatible with the army values. If you cannot keep your word to the ones you love how can we trust you will bear true faith to our country.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Apr 28 at 2014 7:49 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:49:18 -0400

Well the thesaurus says 'adultery' is synonymous with unfaithful, disloyal and falseness. No one is perfect and mistakes happen but to have the mindset there is nothing wrong with being unfaithful, disloyal and false, I'd say their morals don't match up with mine.

I certainly don't want to serve alongside someone who is disloyal to someone they loved enough to marry. How disloyal would they be to me?

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Apr 28 at 2014 7:52 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:52:54 -0400

Here's MY question...why is/was sodomy a crime in the military??? Just curious...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 8:10 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:10:34 -0400

Why? Probably because at some point early in the military someone was engaged in extra curricular activities with his bosses wife.

But beyond that social order. Can you really imagine a military where it was "ok"? You'd have soldiers beating the living daylights out of each other? Does it happen, sure. Does it make it right, heck no. As members of the military we are supposed to be above reproach and if we act a fool in our personal lives....it will affect our professional ones.

Response by TSgt Scott Hurley made Apr 28 at 2014 8:50 PM

TSgt Scott Hurley — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:50:49 -0400

I will say only one thing on this subject. And you older SM's should remember what happened. The subject is the "Kelly Flynn Fiasco." I call it that because of what the said person did that opened up a big can of worms. And for some unknown reason, those that got caught, denied it, but then were forced to retire out of their respective branches. But those that tried to deny it did drag the name of their service thru the mud so to speak. The only branch that I never heard of any one being unfaithful was the Marine Corps. Oh wait, that's right, those individuals resigned or retired before their names even came up it seems.

Response by SSG Nathan Bryant made Apr 28 at 2014 8:53 PM

SSG Nathan Bryant — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:53:27 -0400

A married Soldier having sex with another Soldier (not their spouse) is no different than a married Soldier having sex with a Civilian (not their spouse).

As of 2014, adultery is a criminal offense in 21 states. I'm not sure of your religious preference, but to Christians, adultery is considered immoral and a sin. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" is one of the ten commandments.

Army Values include Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Honor, and Integrity. I can't imagine why any of those would not carry over to the vows of a Soldier to their spouse upon marriage.

I believe the question was "why is adultery a crime in the military"? Without even giving a personal response . . . I am curious if all stated above is more than enough???

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Apr 28 at 2014 9:02 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:02:22 -0400

Why do you want to hear more than an "Army" answer but your question is asking why it's a crime in the Military/Army? Im so confused.
Anything to do with a Soldier on anything is going to be an Army answer. The short answer to your question is because this is the Army not Texas A&M (insert any other college here).

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 9:07 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:07:27 -0400

To answer your direct question----I agree with others on this topic, but above all----If you are married then you are married!

This is a pretty common topic amongst my peers especially while in command. However, it is illegal. There are three elements that have to be proven. Here is the criteria for proof:

1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person;

2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and

3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Now, that being said, proof has to be admissible in court---i.e. pictures, video, eye witness. It is easy to prove if someone is married or not.

*Element #3, in many cases, can be the most difficult item to prove. The government must show that the individual's conduct had some direct negative impact on the military. This normally would include cases of fraternization (officer & enlisted) or a relationship with another military member, or a military spouse.

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made Apr 28 at 2014 9:32 PM

MSgt Keith Hebert — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:32:17 -0400

Aside from the values all the services have,adultery is in itself a selfllish act of an immature adult.
This adult could not or would not take the time to listen and understand their vows.
Marriage is hard and rewarding but you have to work at it, compromise and understand that it is not about you anymore.
I have been married for 18 years to the same wonderful woman who has stood by me through numerous deployments,schools and annual trainings
How could I as a man devalue that commitment by having an affair.
Have an affair because I am mad, because I want get even, because she is not giving me the attention I think I deserve. All selfish and childish behavior.
So having an affair is a crime, maybe not, but is most certainly a mirror of what kind of leader you are. _____ __ _____ y'all fill in the blank.

Response by SPC Christopher Morehouse made Apr 28 at 2014 10:01 PM

SPC Christopher Morehouse — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 22:01:38 -0400

Easy, Integrity.

Next question.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 10:59 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 22:59:43 -0400

Besides being a major moral failing, it is a trust issue as well as the fact that we are held to a higher standard. Adultery is one of the worst, non-violent things that you could do to someone. Violating the trust between two people, and cheating on the one you were supposed to spend the rest of your life with. Also, why would I want to serve with someone who turned on someone who was arguably the closest person to you? Don't think so. This should be fairly obvious why Adultery is a crime.

Response by SFC Grant Johnson made Apr 28 at 2014 11:01 PM

SFC Grant Johnson — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:01:12 -0400

Too easy. I'm going to keep the "Army Values" talk out of this one. Because everyone has values, and codified Army Values are a fairly recent creation to keep people from diverse upbringings on the same sheet of paper. Many of the laws we have to abide by in the military are to keep us all getting along with each other in an orderly fashion. A harmonious, close-knit unit is made up of members who will have each others backs on the battlefield, and are willing to do extraordinary selfless things in combat. Acts like sleeping with your battle buddy's spouse, sleeping with your subordinates, stealing from each other, etc..... hurt unit cohesion. Am I going to charge that machine gun nest to save you when you are pinned down and wounded, if I know that you slept with my wife? No. Am I going to respect you and follow you as a Leader if you are sleeping with subordinates, and showing them special treatment? No. Good order and discipline. The only time I've seen it be a problem when Soldier with civilian, is if it is a fellow Soldier's spouse, as others before me have commented. Do what your personal code and rank can afford......

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Apr 28 at 2014 11:03 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:03:53 -0400

Maybe the REAL question should be:

"Why do Soldiers violate the UCMJ and commit adultery in the military...I mean, they KNOW right from wrong, correct?"

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 11:08 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:08:37 -0400

In the military, we are supposed to be above reproach. Just because civilians are doing it doesn't make it right. Marriage is (or at least supposed to be) a vow. I'm not quite sure how it works with swingers, though, since technically it still is adultery. Just because people are out there in Colorado and other places smoking pot does not mean we are allowed to. It stinks, but we also raised our right hand and swore to abide by the UCMJ. In essence, it is breaking multiple vows as well as possibly diminishing unit cohesion, depending on who the cheater, cheated on and/or fling is.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Apr 28 at 2014 11:12 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:12:56 -0400

I am so sorry Bob.

I’ve been riddled with guilt and I have to confess. I have been tapping your wife, day and night when you’re not around. I’m not getting it at home, but that’s no excuse. I can no longer live with the guilt and I hope you will accept my sincerest apology with my promise that it won’t happen again.

Bob, feeling anguished and betrayed, went into his bedroom, grabbed his gun, and without a word, shot and killed his wife.

A few moments later, a second text came in:

Damn autocorrect. I meant “wifi,” not “wife.”

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 11:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:18:49 -0400

SFC Thomas,

Here's my opinion of it and maybe it's what you consider to be more than an "army" answer. For some people, adultery committed between SM to SM is definitely frowned upon. Causing disruption within the ranks, discontent, animosity and quite possibly violent reactions that will totally take away from the unit's mission because the command must focus on rectifying the situation once it's out. However, SM to civilian is not so much in the light and to some not as bad. But, I pose this question to you. Being that we are the defenders of freedom and protectors of the people, how can we hold ourselves to that title if something we're doing in private is ultimately hurting those we're commissioned to protect?

Yes, they family that we're destroying may be civilian but aren't we the ones who are supposed to make them feel safe and sleep at night? We can't do that if our extramarital sexual exploits are affecting them in such a high magnitude. Also, how would it feel if that SM who committed adultery with a civilian was married to another SM? And what if that SM was you being cheated on?

Some may think that it's not a big deal because the nature of the act is SM on civilian but what they don't realize is that personal lives do spill over into our professional lives. Even if the negative side effects didn't accompany the act, how could you trust someone you'll only see a few years to have your best interests if they cannot even honor a vow they made to someone they opted to spend the rest of their life with. Those core values are there for a reason and should mean something to all not only in their military life but their civilian life as well. Just my opinion.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 11:38 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:38:22 -0400

This one is pretty simple because we are held to a higher standard than those we defend. It would be hard to say you are a just person while you are sleeping with someone else's spouse.

Response by Cpl Ray Fernandez made Apr 29 at 2014 2:11 AM

Cpl Ray Fernandez — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 02:11:39 -0400

It's a matter of trust if you can't keep a vow to your loved one or respect the vow someone else made, it makes it harder to be trusted. If you apply that to say a sensitive position in which you have need of a security clearance to conduct your job it may be exploited by enemies of the country that find someone who is cheating.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2014 8:01 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:01:37 -0400

I can say that our Army Values has Loyalty and should be pilar of every Soldier's moral character. It is the first thing we learn in Basic training and the NCO Creed speaks about Loyalty and our evaluations reflect it. If any Soldier, male or female, Officer or enlisted, breaks that oath, then we should never say that he/she is a great Soldier when they fail to be LOYAL to those with whom they Serve. We are obligated to our country men and women and I do not wish to serve alongside with someone who cannot maintain their oath of loyalty to their spouse, friend annd Brothers/sisters in Arms. This is why it is unlawful and punishible under UCMJ, because it compromises our Values, our Morals and breaks the trust of the Soldiers with who you serve with.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Apr 29 at 2014 8:05 AM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:05:51 -0400

Adultery is a sin, and most things that are sins in the eyes of G-d are illegal in the eyes of Man

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2014 8:49 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:49:07 -0400

Ok, everyone here has been talking about adultry goes against "the Army values," " it's a selfish act" etc etc etc...

Adultry is a crime because most of the laws that the UCMJ is based on are based on the Puritan beliefs that our country was founded upon. Is it a crime? No... Is it stupid to do it, yes. It does effect your unit's cohesion and discipline.

Response by SFC John Brooks made Apr 29 at 2014 9:22 AM

SFC John Brooks — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:22:42 -0400

AS LTC Gross pointed out, its got to do with good order and discipline in the unit. This is an excerpt from Article 134 of the UCMJ:

"To constitute an offense under the UCMJ, the adulterous conduct must either be directly prejudicial to good order and discipline or service discrediting. Adulterous conduct that is directly prejudicial includes conduct that has an obvious, and measurably divisive effect on unit or organization discipline, morale, or cohesion, or is clearly detrimental to the authority or stature of or respect toward a servicemember."

So, the act itself, is not a "crime" in the military IF it doesn't directly have a measurable effect on the unit. That being said, it may still be a crime in the state.

To put this in perspective, my first marriage didn't last long, however, the divorce proceedings through the state we were married in were dragged out over the course of 5 years because my wife had run off and not bothered to contact me or let me know where she was living. During that time, I was dating, got engaged a few years after the divorce started, and was waiting on the court orders. When I found out that my fiancee was pregnant, I went straight to my XO and explained the situation and asked what it meant as far as UCMJ was concerned. She read that article to me and told me that since it effected the unit or my performance in no way, the military would not punish me.

Now, there was a set of circumstances there, and there are as many sets of circumstances as there are people. It's up to the commander to decide the perception and act from there. It's also definitely going to bring values into question as many have stated. One persons circumstances may be understandable, another person my lose the respect of subordinates and leadership which may very well end up having that direct and measurable effect on good order and discipline.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Apr 29 at 2014 10:09 AM

SPC Christopher Smith — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:09:27 -0400

I'm going to kill two birds with one stone, and cause some butt hurt while doing it. Both sodomy and adultry are illegal in the military because the military doesn't want SMs to have fun, lmao.

I know adultry should not be played around with, but on a more professional and personal level, it just takes away from the ability to trust people. In my Blue Book from Basic, and yes I still have it and revisit it from time to time.

Trust is the first thing someone must have for you in order to follow you and your orders. If someone is known to cheat on their spouse, or sleep with other peoples spouses you begin to question what other things that person does. I don't have the most agreeable moral/ethical compass but even I would find it difficult to trust someone that is known to "creep around".

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 29 at 2014 10:13 AM

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:13:12 -0400

It (can) disrupt the good order and discipline within a unit. Believe me, I have seen it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2014 12:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:32:50 -0400

Why is adultery a crime in the military?

The military is a professional organization that prides itself on upholding the highest of standards of character, discipline, and morality. What separates the servicemember from the civilian is the obligation and duty to comply with those aforementioned principles.

So plainly said, adultery is a crime in the military because the action is contradictory to the standards by which set us apart from others.

Thats the best "objective" answer I can provide while taking into consideration the fact that there are multiple & similar reasons which have been echoed by fellow contributors here.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Apr 29 at 2014 12:43 PM

SSgt Gregory Guina — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:43:49 -0400

Alright so I have read through some of this post and now I am going to play Devil's advocate. Is it adultery if you are in an open relationship and you are having threesomes/group sex? I mean the spouse is involved but so is another person and or people?

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Apr 29 at 2014 1:07 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:07:07 -0400

Original Military Law was built around the original laws of the land which were based on the 10 Commandments. The laws we have today are all still traced back to the 10 Commandments but have had to be more specific because, don't take this wrong, people tend to "bend" rules to their liking. Adultery is Adultery whether it is with a civilian, fellow service member, or service members spouse.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2014 1:36 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:36:27 -0400

Ask your kids or kids of divorced parents what they think about it. Crime or not its the wrong thing to do. If you have any doubts of being able to love and stay with your significant other for the rest of your lives then why get married. That's kind of the reason behind the whole process.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Apr 29 at 2014 3:02 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:02:57 -0400

Its not just in the military:

http://www.wral.com/nc-one-of-seven-states-that-makes-cheaters-pay/13599861/

NC one of seven states that makes cheaters pay :: WRAL.com

North Carolina is one of seven states in the country that allows a jilted spouse to sue someone for ruining their marriage. Husbands and wives file hundreds of lawsuits in the state each year against their ex-spouses' alleged paramours, with some judgments topping $30 million.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Apr 29 at 2014 4:41 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:41:53 -0400

I must respond to this question with a question: Is adultery a crime in the military? I never heard that it was but my service occurred during the Vietnam Era. Back then, we had "geographic bachelors", especially those who went on R&R to exotic locals and their wives didn't join them. Some could remember the color of the ceiling in their hotel rooms and little else about their stay.

And before you jump, no, I wasn't one of them. I wasn't even married then.

Response by SMSgt Alan Saunders made Apr 29 at 2014 5:07 PM

SMSgt Alan Saunders — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 17:07:23 -0400

Adultery is diametrically opposed to good order and discipline. These traits are vital to the success of any organization - especially a military organization. Faithfulness, trustworthiness, honesty - these are more characteristics of military leaders which are opposing factors to adultery.

Common sense says leave it alone.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2014 7:05 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:05:59 -0400

because it's wrong. marriage is a commitment and if you aren't mature enough to stick to it you should have your career and social life destroyed

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Apr 29 at 2014 9:04 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 21:04:33 -0400

40 years ago what was once termed an "indiscretion" was considered to be ok if, and I stress IF, it was kept at least 100 miles from the flagpole in the center of the installation the service member(s) were stationed. It was still considered illegal, and if caught the soldier(s) were punished by UCMJ or non-judicial punishment. I consider adultery in the military a crime simply because it goes against good military order and discipline. Not to mention it is a violation of the integrity of the individual(s) involved. I am a staunch believer in the 7 Army Corps Values. There is no such thing as a "victimless" crime, the spouse(s) always get hurt.

Response by SSG Robert Blum made Apr 30 at 2014 8:47 AM

SSG Robert Blum — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 08:47:09 -0400

Wow.. Is this really a Question? My eyes are burning and my head is killing me, just trying to wrap my mind around why this is even a topic for discussion.

The Military is a Values based orginization. We pride ourselves on our professionalism both on and off duty. Now we want to know why adultery is punishable under the UCMJ. If you cant be faithful to the person you pleged to spend the rest of your life with, how can you be trusted to cover my back in a firefight?

Now I do think that the elements of the offense should be looked at. If a husband and wife are legally seperated, and pending a divorce, I think that Soldier should be allowed to get on with His/Her life. Some divorces can take up to a year to be completed. Thats just my opnion.

As for a "Contract/Promise to God". I was not married by the church. My contract is with my wife, through the state of New Mexico. No Church was involved. So where is my crontract with God?

Civil Law is also violated, by the way. Adultery may not be a criminal offense, but it does provide grounds for divorce. It can determine who gets the house, the kids, the dog. Support payments.. A spouse can sue. Again why is this a question?

Response by PO1 Rudy Lopez made Apr 30 at 2014 11:41 AM

PO1 Rudy Lopez — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 11:41:45 -0400

I do not have a problem with adultery from a certain perspective... Let me explain, you have a married military couple, or one member of a marriage who is a member of the military. Until the ink is dry on a divorce document the military soon-to-be ex-spouse is bound to refrain from engaging in future relationships. Although the couple has been separated for about 2-3 months with no signs of reconciliation, if the military service member engages in a new relationship that "moves to the next level" he or she can be charged with adultery, whereas if their counterpart is a civilian they can do whatever they want with whomever they want. Couples are bound by laws in certain states to remain married for a specific period of times (up to 1 year) before they can even file for dissolution, this is a huge disadvantage to the service member. Their ex can move on with their lives, but the service member cannot for fear of being brought up on charges. I've seen charges drafted and then dropped later on, but I have also seen some CO's/OIC bring common sense whereas if the couple has filed for a divorce (or legal separation), but needs to wait the specific time period the military service member is not bothered in the pursuit of his or her personal life.

I think the term "Adultery" in the military should be bared from any and all circumstance relating to legal separations or divorce proceedings as mandated by the state in which they reside. Just my two cents.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2014 1:04 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 13:04:51 -0400

Adultery seems to be a problem all around the military. It's not only against the Army Values, but it effects the workplace. I have been in units where the upset spouse shows up to the office causing a scene because the husband or girlfriend has ruined the marriage and family. I feel it should stay against rules within our military ranks.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2014 1:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 13:20:38 -0400

Adultery is the biggest form of disrespect to another. Furthermore it has no place in the military; as professionals we cannot condone this behavior because it would breed several issues across the board. Including marital issues; suicide/murder; and broken homes for th eyoiung ones. If anything I believe th erules are way to lenient. I was cheated on and the courts agreed to give the kids to my cheating ex-spouse. BTW she cheated both of my tours in the beginning of my career. SO for her cheating she was awarded support payments and entitled to custodial custody. I havent seen my children in four years. If the military could hold spouses on either side accountable and let that reflect appropriately to these "NO FAULT" states( a no fault state disregards certain inadequecies or wrong doing) I think we would have a more professional family united system. No one wants to come home to a cheating spouse nor does a spouse want to hear about a cheating Soldier the rules should be in place to punish either party. Another issue I have is all my Soldiers who were cheated on during deployment where I was their Leader. SOme came back with permanent gifts (STD) allot of them stated prior to procreating that the perpetrator never stated the fact they received an STD and were about to give it to the Soldier. I have a problem with that because it is malicious and criminal it is something these Soldiers will be able to claim for medical benefits because it wasnt there fault their spouse was evil. SO i say yes continue the criminal charge and go a step further and not just ARTICLE 15 the person throw them in prison because they are poison to the U.S. Forces image.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2014 11:55 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 May 2014 11:55:31 -0400

Well, look at the Army Values..
Loyaty
Duty
Respect
Selfless-service
Integrty
Honor

Does cheating on your spouse fit into ANY of that? You're ability to remain faithful to your spouse, the person that you made a personal OATH to in front of your God (whomever they may be) and those lucky enough to witness, is a direct reflection of YOU. Is it no differnt that the OATH you made to this country? No. It's not. So, if you can't be faithful in the most private portions of your life, how can you be in your service?

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made May 1 at 2014 2:23 PM

CMSgt Mark Schubert — Thu, 01 May 2014 14:23:21 -0400

I have to start my answer with a question - What difference does it make if it's a crime in the military or not?

It's wrong - period. It doesn't matter on what level. The fact that you are asking the question tells me you know that.

I suggest to not do anything that you know is wrong whether or not it may be legal to do so. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2014 5:54 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 May 2014 17:54:35 -0400

Well, lets hope that affair doesn't happen in North Carolina. Here, not only can you be arrested for the affair...(you probably wont, depends on the cop)..but the spouse who has been "harmed" by the affair can then sue the "other woman/man" for alienation of affection. Recently courts have awarded more than $1,000,000 in damages for EACH act of adultery.

The plain and simple answer, its based on original law, that is in fact still enacted in at least 20 states. Bottom line, don't do it...easier said than done at times, but just don't. People do not realize that it doesn't really matter what happens between spouses...and honestly who gives a damn about the way they feel...the real victims in these situation are children of the couple involved.

Response by 1SG Ernest Swindle made May 2 at 2014 12:58 PM

1SG Ernest Swindle — Fri, 02 May 2014 12:58:29 -0400

It is a crime period if caught in the act--not hear say, and I have seen a pair of sergeants charged, found guilty, and who were "doing" each others spouses "swingers" in Germany in 1988. Both went to military jail and their spouses were simply returned to America on the tax payers dime. Their taxes should have been garnished "spouses not serving time" for breaking the law and their responsibility would have been sending themselves back or face the host country laws for the same crime versus and being back in America and living a normal life while two others rusted away over stupid decisions that you should not be thinking off. I think DOD wide that UCMJ for all Services and civilians serving in government capacity should face the same law--unbiased. That would surely make some of these swingers SGT EnFinger is referring too think, she knows what she is talking about. E.g. at an installation an entire housing building of students were swingers. 18 apartments of adults swinging, that would have hit the Army millions via way by training and investment in soldiers and sending all their spouses packing with families included. The Services/UCMJ need to get the civil authorities involved if they cannot fix the UCMJ to address the spouses regardless of who you are including C&C down to the private. Even a president who admits to receiving oral sex in the oval office, its wrong!

Response by SPC Sofarleen Thalassinos/Smith made May 2 at 2014 10:02 PM

SPC Sofarleen Thalassinos/Smith — Fri, 02 May 2014 22:02:00 -0400

Adultery is a crime in the military, if you are caught. It's also a crime in the military to have sex about any other way than missionary including head. Did I read right your a SFC asking this question? If so I'm sure it was a bit of sarcasm.

Response by PO1 Joseph Feldhaus made May 3 at 2014 1:24 AM

PO1 Joseph Feldhaus — Sat, 03 May 2014 01:24:45 -0400

All three of these must be proven to be true for it to be considers adultery:

(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person;

(2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and

(3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Response by MSgt Samuel Moore made May 5 at 2014 12:25 PM

MSgt Samuel Moore — Mon, 05 May 2014 12:25:07 -0400

I think it is a crime because it shows the military member to have a dangerous character flaw. If that person is able to keep their sacred vows to their spouse, how can they be trusted to keep their vows to their country. I agree with others who have posted that military members are expected to hold themselves to a higher standard than the general public.

Response by Cpl D. Blake Wilson made May 6 at 2014 11:47 AM

Cpl D. Blake Wilson — Tue, 06 May 2014 11:47:11 -0400

It's punished under Article 134, so adultery in and of itself is not identified by its own article. Regardless of who's involved, as a SM you are held to a higher standard. If you cannot keep your junk to yourself, then you clearly display impulse control problems and are fair game for disciplinary action. SM to SM adultery is even worse because now you're potentially impacting unit cohesiveness.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Jul 13 at 2014 10:16 PM

MSG Floyd Williams — Sun, 13 Jul 2014 22:16:41 -0400

Adultery is bad for the individual marriage, bad for morale for him or her if caught, bad for the morale of the troops, it can bring on a financial burden, and it is against the law in the military.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 5:48 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:48:11 -0500

It does make one pretty vulnerable to blackmail.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 6:12 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 18:12:35 -0500

I typed, deleted, typed, edited, then deleted again (there is so much I wanna say but I'd be preaching to the choir). I finally realized why I got rid of my Facebook the day I joined Rally Point. SGM Matthew Quick took the words right out of my mouth. Army Values are not issued with a canteen. That is all.

Response by Cpl Robert Kafader made Jan 8 at 2015 6:19 PM

Cpl Robert Kafader — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 18:19:27 -0500

You enter into a binding contract with marriage you did the same with the Marine Corps so if you can't keep the contract clean with marriage why would you keep your contract clean with the Corps.

Response by SGT Karen Matayka made Jan 8 at 2015 6:26 PM

SGT Karen Matayka — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 18:26:13 -0500

Quite simply, if your personal life is out of order it causes disorder in your professional life. In the military if you're not on your game you put your life, and the lives of others in danger.

Response by SGT Karen Matayka made Jan 8 at 2015 6:28 PM

SGT Karen Matayka — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 18:28:25 -0500

If your personal life is out of order, it causes disorder in your professional life. If you're off your game, you risk not only your life, but the lives of others.

Response by TSgt Kevin Buccola made Jan 8 at 2015 7:08 PM

TSgt Kevin Buccola — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 19:08:47 -0500

On a personal note - you can ask my ex-wife - she cheated with 3 military members - I had charges brought on all 3 - if it was not for the charges all 3 would be eating their food from a tube for the rest of their lives....The UCMJ saved them a lot of pain.....sorry to but had to be honest

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Sep 9 at 2015 1:52 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 13:52:05 -0400

For one thing, soldiers should not have to worry that Jody is one of their own.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 2:10 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 14:10:18 -0400

SFC Thomas-I think the logical rationale is that it shows lack of integrity. The more pragmatic answer may lie in the overall impact to readiness and security a divorce/marital issues can create.

Response by COL John McClellan made Jun 27 at 2018 11:45 AM

COL John McClellan — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 11:45:32 -0400

Many things in the UCMJ that date back a long way... try "Abuse of a Public Animal"... for example! Adultery as a crime probably dates to our shared Judeo-Christian heritage, and, might have been connected to the notion of maintaining good military order and discipline. As the military was once much, much more isolated from the general public - especially say the Army, out alone on dusty bases far from civilization. So, any affair under those conditions was probably with the significant other of another service-member... which of course is pretty destructive when it comes out... and it always comes out!

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jun 27 at 2018 12:03 PM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 12:03:36 -0400

Why? Because it can cause a lot of personnel issues within a unit when it happens within the Service Community and it can cause issues even if one of those participating are not involved with the Military. Other than the with the hypothetical soldier, I mean. It's nasty enough in the civilian world just dealing with the aftermath of divorce, property and custody without having to consider the effects on the soldiers performance and how that effects others around them.
I've seen it end the career of more than one Senior NCO and Officer.
Now it doesn't stop it and it's seldom prosecuted unless in conjunction with other offenses. So if you are having an affair with some Civilian that isn't associated with the Army and you don't have any issues with her or her Husband/Significant other, even if common knowledge, chances are you wouldn't be prosecuted. Now if her husband shows up on base and unloads on the Commander, things might not be that smooth for you after that.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 27 at 2018 9:26 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 21:26:42 -0400

Because 1. It is against the law in most all states if they chose to prosecute. 2. It is against the good discipline in the Army. 3. The regulations say so. 4. Leaders have better things to do than get the repercussions of you love life.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2018 3:14 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Aug 2018 15:14:36 -0400

The very simple answer: because it was not deemed to be dropped as a crime. No matter how you, or your buddies, feel about Adultery, it is a crime as defined by the UCMJ.

Now, to get into it a little deeper. It is a crime of betrayal of trust. If a person is willing to betray trust in this type of relationship, then what is to stop them from betraying trust with your brothers in arms?

Response by SPC Henry Francis made Aug 10 at 2018 1:28 PM

SPC Henry Francis — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:28:24 -0400

My opinion is that it comprises the mission... whatever it is. Just half a century ago, it was scandalous for those relations to happen anywhere outside of marriage. The interpersonal conflicts it attracts can affect a soldier’s ability to perform. It could be used against the soldier and compromise security. It had been illegal in all 50 states. In some states there is still a law against “Alienation of Affection” (NC is one) which is still effectively used by spouses to get redress of their grievance against the party that “took” their spouse. Single or married, a soldier can find themselves sued for that... interfering with their readiness.

Response by SrA John Monette made Oct 15 at 2018 8:02 PM

SrA John Monette — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 20:02:12 -0400

for the same reason it's a crime in the civilian world

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2018 12:12 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:12:19 -0400

Military life is hard enough without adding in this sort of conduct.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2019 4:55 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:55:07 -0500

Adultery and Article 134 of the UCMJ: Elements
(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person;

(2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and

(3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
—————
As long as they aren’t married and the soldier isn’t married I don’t see any problem with it. It’s only a crime when one of the two is married, which I do have a problem with. It brings discredit upon the armed forces which is why Article 134 is there in the first place. If the soldier wants to sleep around he either needs to get divorced or work something out with his wife (some people are into that).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2019 4:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:58:42 -0500

You know, I’m not sure why this popped up in my main feed... it’s 4 years old.