Why is an E5 Sergeant being treated like a junior enlisted?

2015-06-18T21:32:18-04:00

Ive noticed and been apart of the despair that treats Sergeants like junior enlisted. I understand that these are junior NCO's but they are NCO's in the end and have earned the rank. Vehicle searches (for E5 and below), packing layouts (E5 and below), having to buddy up to go to the px (or needing an E6 or higher to go with) etc....Im not oppose to any of this stuff but I just feel like when I was at that rank I earned the respect and confidence of my leadership and the army as a whole.

Response by SSG Jamil Spruill made Jun 18 at 2015 9:39 PM

2015-06-18T21:39:00-04:00

I totally agree with you I attended ALC two years ago and I'm currently doing SSD3 because I did SSD2 last year. I've been deployed 42 months and still have guys who made E6 recently talking to me like I'm new to the Army. I mean come on I been promote blessed since March last year so points is my only holdup.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 9:44 PM

2015-06-18T21:44:13-04:00

It boils down to maturity level if you are an NCO who is always doing the right thing even when no one is around you will be treated in higher regards. It has become a trend that soldiers who promote fast show lack of true military maturity. Keep you chin up.

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Jun 18 at 2015 9:44 PM

2015-06-18T21:44:34-04:00

Officers..

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 9:45 PM

2015-06-18T21:45:26-04:00

It's interesting that you mention this because in the Not in My Squad Workshop that convened this week at Washington D.C. we shared with SMA Dailey that our team leaders are the most important leaders in our units. In our workstudy we pioneered a pilot workshop that is going to bring a huge change in our current culture. All 32 NCO's from around the world realized that Soldiers are human and deserve to be treated with dignity, respect and inclusion. For years we have disregarded people due to the fast cycles of deployment but it is time to slow the pace down and really take a moment to value the Soldiers we serve and who follow our footsteps.

Response by SSG Blake Miles made Jun 18 at 2015 9:45 PM

2015-06-18T21:45:33-04:00

Sounds like a great way to thin out the numbers of soldiers! /sarcasm.off

Response by SGT Kevin Smith made Jun 18 at 2015 9:46 PM

2015-06-18T21:46:18-04:00

When I was in, I made the comment that an E-5 was just a private in the NCO Corp, and people would get upset. but it doesn't make the statement less true. We have the rank but Senior Enlisted just doesn't seem to trust the E-5

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 9:46 PM

2015-06-18T21:46:50-04:00

As a former Sgt E5 I have been through this and think it's time for a change because like you said that a Sgt E5 is a NCO just like the senior Sargent's.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 9:47 PM

2015-06-18T21:47:07-04:00

My E-5s are NCOs and they are treated as such. In fact as a mentor it is our responsibility to train them to replace us at some point as we move on. I relie on them as my first line and try to let them develop a style of leadership on thier own.

While attending ALC a few years back, as an E-5, trainees didn't even bat an eye or "make way" for me. My friend, an E-6, would step out the door and the seas would part! It was quite a good laugh seeing it!

It's apparently being taught at the schools that E-5 isn't as respectable a rank these days? Also, they're not learning military customs and curtiousies as well as they should!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 9:52 PM

2015-06-18T21:52:27-04:00

I'm oppose to all of it. What really gets me is certain things we(SGTs) get treated like PV5s but as soon as you are understreghted, or others don't want to do their job, we are given the responsibily of a E6/7. The second part isn't a problem. Either let them be NCOs or call it a PV5.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Jun 18 at 2015 9:55 PM

2015-06-18T21:55:24-04:00

I guess people tend to forget that the E-5 Sergeant is still the Backbone of the Army.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:01 PM

2015-06-18T22:01:01-04:00

Maybe because now it is afforded to them automatically when before they had to go to school?? Just a guess

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:02 PM

2015-06-18T22:02:55-04:00

I've never really seen this except during PCS season and points drop low and all your promotables get picked up and all your non promotables PCS or ETS and you end up with a platoon of E5's and like 3 soldiers.

Response by SGT John W Lugo made Jun 18 at 2015 10:07 PM

2015-06-18T22:07:57-04:00

Regardless, remember if being a NCO was a given then why do PLDC, Sometimes the highers forget like a supervisor that they too started at the bottom, A real team leader teaches and promotes from the bottom up and not just give orders, nor down talk those under him,or her.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Jun 18 at 2015 10:11 PM

2015-06-18T22:11:27-04:00

I was a e5 and never got treated that way but have seen it and it is BS

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:12 PM

2015-06-18T22:12:10-04:00

Because their handing out the rank like candy now....I earned mine the hard way...but now that I have earned it...I can feel it and don't tolerate being treated like a child

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-06-18T22:15:24-04:00

Sergeant E5s are working supervisors. They are with their Soliders 100 percent of the time. Therefore, they work where the rubber meets the road and lead from the front. If a Staff Sergeant orders a layout, then Team Leaders lead the way in the care and presentation of their equipment and teaching the Soldiers what the standard is... If a Sergeant First Class orders the layout, then Squad Leaders layout equipment too. Your job as a Sergeant is to lead, train, teach junior enlisted Soldiers. You will be with them all the time. This doesn't mean you are a junior enlisted Soldier - you are entrusted with accomplishment of the mission - you are in charge!

Response by SSG Malcolm "Chris" Canada made Jun 18 at 2015 10:29 PM

2015-06-18T22:29:39-04:00

I didn't mind it to be honest. When I became the Team Leader There were several leadership challenges. One was The responsibility of operating as a team. If my soldiers had to do something I did it as well, and when I did it I led with a standard of how it should be done. I was like a little pitbull while getting the job done. Optimistically speaking me as a NEW leader this helped build the confidence of my soldiers who were former peers. I was dedicated and motivated for whatever the task may have been. One thing I most certainly didn't do was complain. Complaining is an infectious disease that will spread through the ranks. With this type of outlook it wasn't long before I stepped into a Squad Leader position. There's a reason why junior NCO's are called junior, and a reason senior NCO's are considered senior. PS, there is BS on every level.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:32 PM

2015-06-18T22:32:51-04:00

E-1 to E-4 are treated like young teenagers.
E-5 are 16-18 treated as almost like adults.
E-6 are 19-21 Are full adults and some times allowed to legally drink
E-7 are full adults.

For better or worse that is how I see it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:33 PM

2015-06-18T22:33:01-04:00

Catch 22. You are right an E-5 is an NCO. But the requirements to be promoted to E-6 today are the requirements to be promoted to E-5 10-15 years ago. By changing these requirements there isn't much difference in the required training/knowledge/education/know how that an E-4 has.

When Standards are lowered you get selections that may have not made the cut before. So, therefore you get some undeserving people filling slots that still need a baby sitter and the ARMY has a way of putting out mass "punishment" instead of addressing the real problem soldiers.

I think I conveyed what I was saying. I see both sides of this point and they are equally infuriating!

Response by MSG David Johnson made Jun 18 at 2015 10:35 PM

2015-06-18T22:35:23-04:00

Where are you that an E5 needs to be escorted by an E6?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:36 PM

2015-06-18T22:36:51-04:00

I was raised that Sergeant (E-5), is the most challenging and most challenged rank in the Army. Why? The Sergeant is the most resourceful, knows their Soldiers the most, and most relied upon.

When I was a PSG, I made sure that my Soldiers and NCO's understood that if you are a Sergeant (E-5), you will be a leader who counsels, trains, and provides mentorship. The Soldiers knew that their Sergeant (first line) is their financial advisor, mentor, confidant, executive administrator, spokes person, coach, expert, time keeper, librarian, writer, life representative, note keeper, supply guy, motivator, personal trainer, dietitian, support network, your biggest fan, marksmanship coach, family advisor and taxi cab.

Maybe, those Sergeant (E-5's) are not accountable and someone with higher rank had to do their job, so they were micro-managed.

Allow your Soldiers and NCO's to know exactly what you expect as their leader and they will not stray to the left or right. If they do...... Consequences and repercussions are evident..

off my soap box.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:36 PM

2015-06-18T22:36:57-04:00

Frankly because many of them act that way. Transitioning from Junior Enlisted to NCO isn't always easy and it takes awhile to break old habits and create new ones. As you show your supervisors you are reliable then the attitude torwards you will changes. And if it makes you feel any better...sometimes I feel I get treated like a PV7 when I get new leadership. After a month or so and I've shown my ability that feeling goes away. Viscous cycle I know

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Jun 18 at 2015 10:40 PM

2015-06-18T22:40:05-04:00

This happens in units where the E-5/Sgt is known as one of the troops. It would be ideal to transfer the Sgt to another section or unit but such a situation would be challenging to personnel sections. A swap is good, but still...a good NCO support chain for that new E-5 Sgt would have to do.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:41 PM

2015-06-18T22:41:30-04:00

This isn't just a unit situation. Its a post wide one. When I would come in the arms room when the alarm would go off at 2 am or whatever I would be searched every time because I was what they said "just an E5". But if I was an E6 I would never get checked. Same thing with traveling to other bases for training, I was unable to go check out the training area without an E6 as an escort or a battle buddy. Just seems like even as a NCO your not really an NCO until you hit E6 now days.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 10:49 PM

2015-06-18T22:49:51-04:00

I was told this was more a complaint. Its really not. I thought this social media site was to raise awareness, connect and communicate with fellow Military members who understand each other. So if you feel like its complaining its now. You cant affect change without getting the message out and raising awareness about a topic or situation. Thanks

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 18 at 2015 10:49 PM

2015-06-18T22:49:53-04:00

I remember when it was CPL and Above were NCOs, Period. HOWEVER, I also have to say that for Layouts, it was Squad Leader and below and some times, Platoon Sergeant and below.

I would remind everyone that in the grand scheme of things, NCOs do forget stuff, mess up on occasion and some do need to have their packing lists verified.

Response by SFC Jason Heritage made Jun 18 at 2015 10:49 PM

2015-06-18T22:49:59-04:00

In my unit the Sergeants are not included in much of what you stated, but that's just my unit. I stayed a Sergeant for almost a decade so I can honestly say not all of them are junior, that's for sure.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Jun 18 at 2015 11:13 PM

2015-06-18T23:13:54-04:00

Not in any of the units I've been with.

E-5 are treated like the NCOs they are. Junior NCOs, but NCOs.

No packing list, no CIF layout (sign the memo and done), never heard of having to be accompanied to go to the PX?(seriously?)

Response by SGT Nathan Huff made Jun 18 at 2015 11:18 PM

2015-06-18T23:18:08-04:00

It depends on your command. In a line troop no issues. In a poge unit, treated like garbage. It all comes down to your leadership.

Response by SFC Peter Cyprian made Jun 18 at 2015 11:42 PM

2015-06-18T23:42:54-04:00

I have seen a lot of great comments here and the ones that I tend to agree with are those that basically say "you lead by example". As a young Sgt, it was expected that I am the first to show the troops how it should be done- whether it is laying out my TA-50 (frick'n HATED that) or having my room inspected. When I was a Sgt we didn't have these "vehicle inspections"....they came when I was a SSG....and I was STILL the first in my section to have the PSG inspect my vehicle and documents. As far as the "junior NCO" thing goes.....never gave it a second of brain time. A NCO is a NCO. Cpl, Sgt, SSG, SFC.......a NCO is a NCO. Senior NCOs were to be emulated- not just because they were senior NCOs, but because of the examples they set. This whole "junior NCO" thing is WAY over thought. Yes, everyone has to start somewhere....I think that is really all they had in mind when they determined that Cpl and Sgt are "junior NCOs". Junior DOES NOT mean "inferior", so why carry yourself that way or why treat your "junior" NCOs that way?

Response by SGT S Sharpless made Jun 18 at 2015 11:52 PM

2015-06-18T23:52:51-04:00

I was just speaking with my platoon sgt about this yesterday because I am feeling the same way. I have to answer to an E5 for everything just based off the facts that I'm the only one of my MOS and that I have no soldiers. This other E5 is also rating me. I don't like it. I don't like being treated like I'm junior enlisted.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2015 11:53 PM

2015-06-18T23:53:22-04:00

Honestly...look at how many SPC's there are. Once you become an NCO, as an E5 from a E4/SPC...eyes are going to be on you until you prove yourself. It's not as though E5's are being dumped on...more of a "let's see if you got this" kind of thing.

Response by SGT Ronald Minick made Jun 19 at 2015 12:49 AM

2015-06-19T00:49:04-04:00

Due to the fast promotion rate during the wars, we promoted Soldiers who were not ready, abused their rank or had no idea what duties and responsibilities come with the greatest rank which are those three stripes. A Sergeant leads by example. He/She is the true enforcer of our discipline and stardards- the bull dog. I seen that pride dissolve in many and in place of that.....became poor leadership. Square it away; but look in the marrior and ask yourself if you are worthy of those stripes and what those stripes mean.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Jun 19 at 2015 1:40 AM

2015-06-19T01:40:38-04:00

It is all part of the process, you are a "buck", that means you need to grind the horns a bit, get used to them and grow. The rank on the collar does not automatically pass you the knowledge and discipline...steady on!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 3:29 AM

2015-06-19T03:29:09-04:00

SSG Russell,

Please take no offense to what I'm about to say. However, my argument is with your question in its entirety (Why Is an E5 Sergeant being treated like a junior enlisted?) I'll give you my perspective shortly, but first I'll remark about my difference of opinion with your question. The question states E5 Sergeant specifically not NCO or Junior NCO as you addressed in your supporting statement. I've always been taught that there's a significant difference between an E5 Sergeant and an NCO. When you continue to make your argument you also articulate that you yourself have also been part of the problem. Here's what that all boils down to , its a cultural issue and disconnect that we have as an organization within our ranks. If we don't stop it we'll only continue to perpetuate the cycle. You would ask how do we stop it? The answer is as simple as is gets. It's our job as Leaders to teach, coach and mentor. We must hold our Junior NCOs accountable, to standards and to dicsipline. Before we can do that we ourselves must (BE, KNOW, DO) look in the mirror and ensure that we exemplify what right looks like (The Army Values). Let me give the reason why we do vehicle inspections and layouts for Junior NCOs, or E5 Sergeants as you would ask. The reason is for continuity for the actual junior enlisted Soldiers, so that they may see and learn what right looks like from their immediate first line supervisor. All Soldiers are not only different, but also have different ways of learning. Which adds to the why we do what we do with our Junior NCOs. Here's the other problem that we contend with, it's the automatic promotion to E5 Sergeant. This is a problem because, we now have to make room underneath our umbrella of leadership for yet another Junior NCO, who may or may not have deserved it, but this does not matter. We have the calling to develope this newly promoted NCOs to make our NCO Corps stronger and better. We constantly find reasons why we don't want to do things, if we could make reasons why we should do things then our issues for the most part within the NCO Corps would be less. We as NCOs need to come to one accord. Until we have the right people in the right place at all levels this can't happen. However, if you, I and all other NCOs start to influence (positively) our umbrella of leadership. Then by the time we retire or even shortly prior to the NCO Corps that we'll leave behind will be a better one.

Response by SSG Adam Wyatt made Jun 19 at 2015 5:51 AM

2015-06-19T05:51:00-04:00

A lot of it may have to do with how you approach things. I never had an issue as an E-5 because of "command presence". However, I have witnessed what you are talking about and agree that something needs to change.

Response by SFC Jason Porter made Jun 19 at 2015 6:36 AM

2015-06-19T06:36:11-04:00

Team leader and below the SGT/E-5 is the first line supervisor! I've seen E6 and below

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 8:02 AM

2015-06-19T08:02:38-04:00

I think this is a great discussion topic. Now, I've seen this before many times. However, it had depended on the particular NCO...SGT/E-5. It more so occurred if that NCO was very very green in their duties and responsibilities...and didn't show too much willingness to be out in front ... Or didn't use enthusiasm where they were lacked experience. I can only say what has truly worked for me in gaining my seniors and peers trust. I always ensure I stay a few steps ahead of the power curve and or battle rhythm. I'm on top of anything having to deal with my Soldiers and preparing things for the near and long term future. Preparing them and ensuring they're constantly improving. Any chance I've ever gotten to be out in front or hold a position of higher responsibility I've taken. Also, made sure the job were completed as if by a senior NCO themselves. Hell, even when it comes to stepping outside of my MOS and comfort zone in general I'll take a stab at it always. I try to ensure I'm well rounded and versed in many aspects of being an NCO and Soldier ... Not just my MOS. Basically, I gobout of my way to not only better myself as a leader but to prove that I do NOT need any babysitting. Now, we all need that top coverage from time to time of course and it should be used as needed. However, in the eyes of most seniors, if you prove yourself and show what your capable of they will treat you as such. There are those rare cases of micro manager supervisors, but that's when I always utilize the phrase "I got it" or "roger already took care of it". Do that a few times and ensue you're ahead of the things they're still trying to figure out. ... It'll speak volumes and they may be coming to you for advice who knows .

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 8:11 AM

2015-06-19T08:11:52-04:00

I think a lot of it has to do with where you are in the Army. If you are a Sergeant team leader in an Infantry Squad in an Infantry Company you are going to get treated differently than a Sergeant on a Brigade or Division Staff. As a Staff Sergeant who was a Platoon Sergeant I held a lot of authority in my Company. As a Sergeant First Class on a Division Staff I need a PAC slip to check on a Soldiers leave form. I can only imagine how a Sergeant on aDivision Staff feels.

Response by SSG Jesus Sijalbo made Jun 19 at 2015 2:41 PM

2015-06-19T14:41:17-04:00

We called them Buck Sergeants and because of the three stripes they are the tip of the spear and first line supervisors. Always bucking at the lower enlisted. E-6 SSG, Well for some MOS in the military a E6/SSG is a ,"staff sergeant".

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 3:59 PM

2015-06-19T15:59:04-04:00

...and that's all I have to say about that...

Response by SGT Kristjan Rahe made Jun 19 at 2015 10:52 PM

2015-06-19T22:52:24-04:00

When I was jn the Army the moment I was promoted to E5 it was as though I was suddenly aware of different planes of awareness ( or at east that was the expectation). We have cheapened the rank when we do not permit the swagger and cockiness to a point. Of cou%sager PLDC or whatever it is called today , padowan training by master Yoda, whatever, is needed, but give the devil his due. They earned it and are the future of the Army

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2015 10:58 AM

2015-06-20T10:58:32-04:00

Depends on where you are. One place a E5 can be the NCOIC of the medical section for a entire battalion. Another just another person.

Response by SGT Christina Wilder made Jun 20 at 2015 12:33 PM

2015-06-20T12:33:03-04:00

Prior to 9/11 soldiers worked for promotion to E-5. Correspondence courses, college, leadership training, improving APFT, seeking to get boarded. Today it appears soldiers are entitled and get promoted if they do the time. Not all of course but a significant number.

Response by CSM Felipe Mendez made Jun 20 at 2015 1:09 PM

2015-06-20T13:09:27-04:00

I never saw an "E-5" as a junior enlisted, but as a junior NCO. I always trusted all my NCOs to do the right thing and take care of all soldiers assigned to the Squadron or my Brigade. I always asked my Junior NCOs (E-5s) about soldiers problems, things that needed to be change etc. During my Squadron/Brigade soldier of the month boards or promotion board, was you the E-5 that I want to see accompanying the enlisted soldier. In addition, it was their recommendation that I listened during UCMJ procedures. Their recommendation counted extremely on judgment/punishments. You as the junior NCO (E-5) knows him better, knows his potential and his qualities. Your position as a junior NCO (E-5), gives you a first hand of all situations good or bad and it's your position, responsibility, trust, and army values that will be always be trusted on guiding our soldiers to be better future NCO as you. Never focus on being the last on the NCO chain, but the "First" on. Everything starts with you and ends with you. My junior NCOs (E-5) were my great and precious in my Squadron and later on in my Brigade. I knew that they will always do right by their assigned soldiers and will always safeguard the NCO chain, regardless the situation they may find themselves. I am proud to said that several of those great junior NCO (E-5s) are currently great "First Sergeants" and outstanding SGMs/CSMs. During my assignment as the BDE CSM with the 6th CAV BDE in Korea, once a month I was asked to teach a class in the Primary Leadership Course as part the Senior Mentorship Program. My topic was always the NCO Creed. I did not seat there and blaa.. blaaa, instead I had the student read sentences by sentence and elaborate each on of them. At times the class lasted over a hour and there were great feed back from those great junior soldier, future NCOs. Never focus on your location in the NCO chain, but what you can offer as part of such prestigious chain that is the NCO Chain.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2015 1:26 AM

2015-06-21T01:26:29-04:00

Establish that authority. NCOs are treated how they allow themselves to be treated. A friend of mine described SGT as the NCO trial period. This is where "theoretically" junior NCOs are taught how to be an adult. As soon as you prove your shit is together, it is big boy rules. But it requires trust from your leadership. If that is not in place, there are other issues in need of address.

Response by SGT Roger Childs made Jun 21 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-06-21T14:49:03-04:00

Good to be out and away from this type of babysitting BS.

Response by SGT Jason Weisbrich made Jun 21 at 2015 5:11 PM

2015-06-21T17:11:57-04:00

Personally if you treat an E-5 know ke junior enlisted, you are begging for an on the spot correction, but remember that you never ask a soldier to do something you would not do yourself. Do not however let anyone walk all over you just because they have higher rank then you. On occasion they also need to be reminded that higher rank allows you to get away with shoddy leadership or disrespectful behavior.

Response by SSG Martin Reyna made Jun 22 at 2015 4:12 AM

2015-06-22T04:12:28-04:00

I have been out for 10 years now.. I believe respect is earned and that goes for all ranks. In my time I met corporals that had earned more respect, demonstrated more professionalism and dedication than E-5's.

Earn your respect, don't ask for it.

Response by SGT Chris Searcy made Jun 23 at 2015 12:09 AM

2015-06-23T00:09:19-04:00

There's a difference in an e5 and a sgt. Any one can't be promoted to e5 when qualifications are met. That doesn't make in a sgt. I served five yrs 28 months in ramadi Iraq and got out in 08 made sgt in 5 yrs but I really feel I was a sgt. Not and e5 to me sgt is one that is respected not because he demands it but because he's earned through hard work dedication. E5 is some one who got promoted but doesn't show on a every hr of every to soldiers and his squad leaders or psg that he can lead for from the front or take one the duties and responsibilities that the stripes requires one to have

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Jun 23 at 2015 11:56 AM

2015-06-23T11:56:11-04:00

It may be a simple case of acting the roll potraited. When I was in the Regular Army, on the job I portaited myself as a Sgt. Even though I was a specialist. People knew I know my job.
Rank on collar told them otherwise

Response by SFC William Vernon made Jun 24 at 2015 6:42 PM

2015-06-24T18:42:10-04:00

As a Sergeant, I have no issues doing laying out, PMCSing, or any of the other crap my Soldiers have to do. That's what my previous SGTs did with me when I was a "Joe". When Solders have an example to follow, they know how they are supposed to act in the rare event an NCO is not around. An issue I have seen in my unit is the Soldiers are told what to do, but rarely shown how to do it and it leads to a lot of confusion on their parts.

Plus, doing the small stuff with the Soldiers gives them a chance to open up to you to discuss real issues that they not open up about otherwise. How else are they going to learn to trust NCOs when it comes to needing help with personal stuff. They come to trust their leaders actually care about what they are doing and how they are doing it.

All leaders should show their Soldiers that they hold themselves to the same standards they hold the subordinates, this is just one way to do it.

Response by SSG Adam Beyard made Jun 24 at 2015 10:55 PM

2015-06-24T22:55:24-04:00

I agree having to be escorted is a little extreme but what it boils down to is the fact that Soldiers and even most younger NCO's just can not simply seem to follow orders or do what they are told without whining. You want to excel and be treated like a grownup NCO? Then quit whining and complaining and learn to follow simple orders. You do not just get promoted and expect to not have to lay out your gear. All units are different, there are different standards everywhere. Just do what your told and also take initiative and do simple tasks without having to be told. It gets better, just Soldier on.

Response by SGT Stanley Bass made Jun 25 at 2015 11:19 AM

2015-06-25T11:19:38-04:00

Different fields, when I joined the Army it was the year of the NCO. When I pinned on my E5, my MSG came by did the pounding of the rank into the collar bones and said, now let's see you keep it. When it came time for things like inspection, urinalysis I was one of the first to say check me. I knew getting promoted would separate me from all the people I knew in my company that hadn't been promoted yet. But i was the person that they saw every day. Later in my career, I also ran into Officer's that tried to treat me like a brand new soldier to the military, right out of basic. I found out later they were combat Arms officers and I was Admin. So different fields and different levels of respect

Response by SFC Michael L. made Jun 25 at 2015 7:28 PM

2015-06-25T19:28:03-04:00

Ok, do not think that you are 'a part' of anything. Learn some proper grammar to be taken seriously.

Response by SFC Barry Wiseman made Jun 27 at 2015 7:59 PM

2015-06-27T19:59:09-04:00

They are NCO's however they are still Jr NCO's. Most team leaders are CPL or SGT, leading by example for your team and ensuring their shit is straight is still an important job. Don't take it as you are being treated Badly..... As a PSG I used my SQD Ldrs, they used their TM Ldrs..... Believe it or not this happens all the way up the rank structure..... Just my 2 cents

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 9:04 PM

2015-06-30T21:04:10-04:00

Cry baby!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2015 1:05 AM

2015-07-04T01:05:05-04:00

Some Sergeants in the rank of E5, in my opinion, aren't quite ready to be turned loose onto the world yet. Yes they earned the rank that they wear, but some under my charge are still young as far as experience goes and still require close mentorship and supervision. I have one that has only been in the Army for 3 years, and more with only a bit more. Each have allot of potential and are great Soldiers, but still need direction and refocusing once and awhile.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2015 9:04 PM

2015-08-04T21:04:49-04:00

An E-5 and even an E-6 ARE JUNIOR ENLISTED NCO's.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2015 11:32 AM

2015-08-22T11:32:22-04:00

i believe these kind of things depends on the unit you are at. Never happened to me. I am a Jr. NCO not a Jr. Enlisted. E-5 and below for layout is a little exaggerated. If you earned the rank, you should be responsible enough to take care of your own gears. Maybe this particular unit had an incident with an E-5 or various which made the leadership take action to prevent things from happening again.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Nov 3 at 2015 1:09 PM

2015-11-03T13:09:42-05:00

I hear you SSG Russell, it's like they want you to be Senior enlisted when taking on the roles of Squad Leader or NCOIC of Training room etc etc...So it's a double standard being said that needs to be addressed.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2015 2:58 AM

2015-11-11T02:58:58-05:00

Unfortunately, times and mindsets change. Take a look at the demographics breakdown of what rank is committing the most SHARP incidents? If that's one area (sexual abuse).....what other areas are suspect to require a need for amp'd scrutiny? Tough paradigm.... not all make the break until they are more seasons SGTs, and by that point....they're knocking on the door for SSG.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jan 27 at 2016 1:20 PM

2016-01-27T13:20:57-05:00

Can't speak for anyone else but I always put out for team leaders and below to lay out. Reason being was that I wanted Squad Leaders free to be checking the troops equipment and the PSGs free to be looking at uniformity and big picture stuff. I never liked bag dumps because it was easy to miss things, a uniform layout allowed me to at a glance see that Tooper x in 3rd squad 2nd PLT was missing a pair of socks and ask the PSG and SQD LDR what they were doing about it. It was never a slight on the SGTs and if the SQD LDR was a SGT they didn't lay out.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2016 6:02 AM

2016-01-29T06:02:24-05:00

My opinion will be obvious: If the foods run out in the chow line, I eat last. If the Soldiers are supposed to be somewhere....I am too. Since being a 1SG.... I validated every packing list in my home, on the floor and took the pictures for the SOP.....and all the way up to PSG.... I laid out my stuff in front of the Platoon (yes...as a SFC).... not a single whiney, complaining SSG, SGT, CPL or below could say jack-squat if I did it myself and therefore was the role model. The majority of my gigs? subordinate NCOs who did 95% recovery.... but where's that extra 5%? I can tell you it didn't show up on their NCOER! The same SGTs I'd exempt from stuff? They were the ones as a 1SG I'd see in the barracks before PT checking on their JOEs without being told....way too many think wearing rank permits exemptions verses why-not-me-as-the-role-model-example-of-what-I-expect-from-you?

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Oct 22 at 2016 7:40 PM

2016-10-22T19:40:41-04:00

Come over to the Marines

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 22 at 2016 10:35 PM

2016-10-22T22:35:32-04:00

Interesting E-5 Sgt.'s used to be considered a Junior NCO... and at One time was treated as such...

Response by SFC Eric Hedberg made Oct 16 at 2017 3:43 PM

2017-10-16T15:43:02-04:00

maybe he or she is presenting themselves as lower enlisted. Just me

Response by SGT Mark Turpin made Sep 23 at 2018 12:51 PM

2018-09-23T12:51:34-04:00

I’ve never had this problem, but I was fortunate enough to be a Drill Sergeant as an E5. On the trail, every one of my battles were senior to me, but we were one team in a sea of privates and I was treated as their equal. I may have been tasked to stay late and do some train-ups for the next day, teach the boring classes, be a demonstrator in the more physically demanding or just messy tasks. But I took pride in showing all those recruits how it’s done, with three stripes on my chest. I put myself through hell to earn those stripes, and gladly showed my soldiers what an E5 should be.

Response by MSG David Lambert made Oct 1 at 2018 11:19 AM

2018-10-01T11:19:47-04:00

I retired from Ft Hood, one reason was I witness disrespect for senior NCO’s upon entering the post on change of station from overseas. I saw Sergeant Majors performing not supervising police call on the base. Senior NCO’s not supervising but performing police duties cleaning debris from inside sewer drains. The supervision was junior officers.

Response by SGT Stephen Scott made Jun 26 at 2019 9:47 PM

2019-06-26T21:47:44-04:00

That is why I tested out, instead of teenliisting a second time.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jul 8 at 2019 11:48 PM

2019-07-08T23:48:38-04:00

Sometimes it's a matter of perceived maturity. As leaders we must earn the respect of peers, subordinates, and superiors. Authority is less about position and more so transactional or transformational. The situation usually dictates which is more effective but seldom is positional authority most important.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Jul 30 at 2019 6:32 AM

2019-07-30T06:32:08-04:00

Suggest you get feedback from senior leaders on how others perceive you as an leader!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2019 4:25 AM

2019-08-06T04:25:26-04:00

I agree with you, but if it helps in Korea all E6 and below were barracks Soldiers it didn't matter if u are promotable

Response by SGT Ruben Lozada made Sep 17 at 2022 2:16 PM

2022-09-17T14:16:24-04:00

Excellent question SSG Russell. In My opinion every unit is different and PLT SGTs hold thier TLs or SQD Leaders at a certain level. Keep in mind that CPLs and E5 SGTs are still NCOs. If that SGT has the proven ability to be a true leader on His own, then the PLT SGT will view Him as a true leader. But, in today's Army there are Soldiers who are promoted rapidly without the necessary skills and experience to be a true leader. One reason that He'll be treated as a junior enlisted individual. Orders role downhill. And, if that SGT can't perform the taks that the PLT SGT asks Him to do, then the PLT SGT will hold that TL or SQD Leader at a certain level.

Response by SSG Frank Lunasco made Sep 20 at 2022 1:20 AM

2022-09-20T01:20:50-04:00

Being a section chief my next in command was a E-5 making sure this individual female or male understood that the foundation to building a great relation ship with the solders you lead is respect and remember to lead by example a great NCO is one who takes time to listen to his solders on each training mission and not afraid to give it a try.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2022 8:14 PM

2022-10-05T20:14:01-04:00

We are promoting spc’s too fast, they don’t know how to lead or still do the right thing. The sgt rank is just handed to them, I was a SPC for 2 years and a cpl for 1yr before getting my strips. I feel like I learned how to lead I knew how to do the right thing at the right time at the right place. The newer “e-5” are still acting like 4’s with strips on there chest. So with this new promotion system they don’t know what they are doing because they picked up 5 in 3 not know how anything works.