Why is Defense Travel System (DTS) so difficult to use?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 22:14:26 -0500

I am short notice on orders and I am trying to get an authorization for travel on orders... If it's not one thing then its another. The combination of DTS and GOV CC are maddening!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 10:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 22:17:09 -0500

I've gone round and round with this Sir. I had to go to the DTS Manager for the TC MGN command he fixed it quick. I would suggest the same.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 10:23 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 22:23:31 -0500

Once you have your own SOP, or a good DTS example from previous TDY's, it's not too tough to use. I was on a 1st rank basis with my DTS Mgr when I got started, especially when short notice stuff was an issue. I got that straightened out and created my own SOP. It can be tough, but the best part is when you're back and need to submit the claim.. much easier and faster than the paper method.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 10:34 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 22:34:44 -0500

The only thing that makes it difficult to use where I'm at is the approving authority taking their time.....which happens frequently

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Jan 7 at 2016 10:53 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 22:53:14 -0500

It was designed to be a government system which provides for unnecessary difficulties. I will tell you that with more use of the system, it becomes easier to use. I recommend finding a DTS SME to help you get it done.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 11:16 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 23:16:51 -0500

It's a "good idea fairy" implementation!!!!

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Jan 7 at 2016 11:21 PM

Capt Brandon Charters — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 23:21:54 -0500

DTS....still makes me cringe. Glad to see it wasn't just an Air Force thing.
I think the short answer to your question is: Govt built website.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 11:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 23:26:58 -0500

I feel your pain sir. I tried to do my BLC after returning from a deployment, only be told I had to cancel my school because my GOV CC was still on deployment status or something.

So much for doing the right thing -.-

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2016 11:33 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 23:33:38 -0500

It would be great, if it wasn't so awful.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 12:45 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 00:45:10 -0500

I agree. I never use my Gov Card. I know you are suppose to use but I would rather use cash and wait to get paid back. So many times if you are late making a payment you will get in trouble. If I am able to pay for everything and not really miss the money I would do that instead of worrying about carrying a debt.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 1:27 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 01:27:11 -0500

I am a DTS approver. If you do your voucher, and have all the substantiating documents, you will get paid quickly. Missing docs could mean ping pong back and forth. Upload receipts for EVERYTHING and you shouldn't have an issue.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jan 8 at 2016 6:34 AM

LTC John Shaw — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 06:34:19 -0500

Like so many Army systems DTS gets easier the more you use it. It is much better now than the manual process of submitting, getting cryptic notes back from travel.

Response by SSG Glen Krinsky made Jan 8 at 2016 7:07 AM

SSG Glen Krinsky — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 07:07:19 -0500

Good question. People who are intimately involved with DTS say it's not hard, but for the regular Joe, it's like a Cadet on the landnav course...or a 2LT...lol

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 7:10 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 07:10:30 -0500

Because it was made to make it easier on those who have to administer the program, not the traveller.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 7:54 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 07:54:32 -0500

Now that I'm forced to use DTS at least once a month it really isn't that bad. Creating orders taking 10 minutes as long as you know the dates, hotel, and line of accounting. Vouchers are quick as long as you have all the receipts and don't use your card for random stuff like meals. I only use mine for hotel, rental car, and airlines tickets.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 8:11 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:11:41 -0500

They flat out don't train us on how to use the system. There's usually only one person maybe two who can even access it or understand it. This is just one of the issues we have as reservists. I can't even remember the last time I've been able to check my enterprise email. Doesn't work at the unit and sure as hell doesn't work at home. All this computer crap in the reserves is extremely frustrating because NOBODY can figure it out. If your not full time you DON'T get access so you are screwed.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 8:39 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:39:42 -0500

For what it's worth on the Civilian side sir, GovTrip was far worse. Now we have Concur, which is a less suckier version of GovTrip.

Response by SGT Eric Slade made Jan 8 at 2016 9:33 AM

SGT Eric Slade — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:33:21 -0500

DTS can be hell if your DTS manager is a nightmare to work with on your travel. In my last unit, he would see your vouchers and documents and only alert you to a single problem. Once I would correct it, he would send it back once the next issue pops up. It was like playing a nasty game of tennis with him. Never understood why he couldn't review the voucher as a whole instead of the 10-14 days of emails fixing individual problems.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 9:50 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:50:23 -0500

Oh, how I miss the days of receiving orders, heading to the travel office and getting tickets, then turning in receipts and travel voucher to the finance office.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jan 8 at 2016 10:03 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 10:03:41 -0500

The underlying systemic issue goes well beyond DTS. Bureaucracy has never been know for it's streamline efficiency.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jan 8 at 2016 11:46 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 11:46:29 -0500

I don't think DTS would comprehend the type of travel I was doing post 911. I was zipping around to so many countries, many not serviced by "US Flag Carriers". I think my total airfare was around $18 grand over 3 months, with hand written paper tickets to and from Ulaanbaatar and other odd places. I had a DKCS that could make things happen. Now the DTS system won't make things happen. You basically have a system designed first to control, not service. You also have a system that is purposely designed to punish the very few at the expense of the overall community. You also have a system and administrators that will spend $1000 to track down $10. That's generous as I'd recall much more being spent to jockey DTS to cover actual expense scenarios in going to remote Alaska work sites because the system bases everything on Anchorage. Add to that SATO refusing to fly people smart for a few bucks more like your time isn't worth anything.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 11:46 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 11:46:58 -0500

To keep the contractor devils that built that insanely un-user-friendly software in business. There can be no other logical answer.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 8 at 2016 12:13 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 12:13:36 -0500

Lack of competitive pressure.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jan 8 at 2016 12:51 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 12:51:42 -0500

In the old days all these would have been carried out by the SPC-4 Mafia, which required gifts (donuts and coffee), now days I think it is the Geek/SPC-4 Mafia that runs the system that can not receive digital donuts and coffee so the system is broken.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 8 at 2016 1:13 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 13:13:33 -0500

Click on DTS Smart Book. https://militarycac.com/dts.htm I created the original Smart Book because the military did not deploy DTS to units well. Using it is rife with frustration and unmitigated hatred for it. It was like here is a M1A2 Tank, now get in it and function without any training. Try the smart book and give it a chance. You might even see my name in it.

MilitaryCAC's How to use DTS

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Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 3:27 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 15:27:38 -0500

It's not sir

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jan 8 at 2016 5:38 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 17:38:37 -0500

Seriously...think of all the $$$ that DTS has wasted due to wasted man hours because the system is so terrible to use. That's a gigantic number, I promise you

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 7:05 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 19:05:38 -0500

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 11:03 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 23:03:12 -0500

Its really not that hard to use, just one mistake leads to others and you get pissed. Its a great tool. "Focus Daniel-son!"

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 11:04 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 23:04:12 -0500

Also. Callyour local DTA and/or find the DTA CoC

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 10:53 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 10:53:21 -0500

There is alot of training in Trax travel Explorer for how todo your orders and voucher. It has pictures and everything. The biggest pain is the fund sites being loaded and people not keeping there GTC and personal info up dated. Then the back and forth starts and people assume that the person should do it for them.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Jan 10 at 2016 5:33 PM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 17:33:38 -0500

Take your time and follow the published guidance. There are reasons DTS is there. Seek assistance from someone that is a satisfied user.

Response by Maj Marty Greene made Jan 14 at 2016 12:01 PM

Maj Marty Greene — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:01:59 -0500

Old enough to remember the old paper system, which was arcane enough by itself. Seems like the contract for the software demanded that it follow many of the same quirks. They should have started fresh, instead of trying to translate the paper version. Of course, those who worked with the old system every day loved it, I'm sure.

Response by SGT S Sharpless made Jan 14 at 2016 2:26 PM

SGT S Sharpless — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:26:39 -0500

It isn't. There is a fully downloadable (FREE!) step by step (PDF file) manual on how to use DTS. It's hard because most people don't want to actually sit down and learn how to do it.

Response by COL Tom Moore made Apr 29 at 2016 5:22 PM

COL Tom Moore — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 17:22:04 -0400

Actually, DTS wasn't built by the government - it was built by a private defense contractor: Northrup Grumman. And if the Defense Travel Management Office (DTMO) REALLY wanted DTS to be user friendly and predictably functional, they would include in the contract with Northrup Grumman a requirement at all travel plans and reimbursements for their DTS project managers be done in DTS in accordance with the JTR.

Response by COL Tom Moore made Apr 29 at 2016 6:51 PM

COL Tom Moore — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:51:57 -0400

Your seven year old child (WITHOUT ANY TRAINING) can figure out how to use a smartphone. That's because the graphical user interfaces (GUI) on the various smartphones were built to be intuitive. And while they are not perfectly intuitive to everyone, your seven year old child was able to figure it out! Even Bill's Boys at Microsoft have occasionally built pretty intuitive GUIs for their operating systems. And there's lots of guidance and design guidelines available on the Internet regarding GUIs. Why wouldn't Northrup Grumman pay attention to any of this guidance?

So blaming DTS travelers for not being adequately trained to correctly use DTS is a workaround for the real problem: the DTS GUI and the software behind it is NOT intuitive and contain design flaws that waste the user's time and lead to errors in travel plans, authorizations and vouchers. Advocating more training for DTS users has led to a tremendous waste of valuable time (i.e. the time DoD travelers have had to spend learning all the quirks, problems, difficulties and "tricks" associated with DTS).

Each problem that has surfaced while a DoD traveler used DTS should have been viewed by Northrup Grumman, the Defense Travel Management Office (DTMO) and the Contracting Officer for the DTS project as an opportunity to find, learn about and fix the problem. I've reported a significant problem to DTMO concerning the rental car module but unfortunately haven't heard a peep from them. Has anyone else observed a DTS problem that was swarmed by problem solvers from Northrup Grumman or the DTMO? :(

Northrup Grumman's and DTMO's approach to DTS is that of a so-called low velocity organization. And while you cynics out there may shrug your shoulders and say, "Hey, it's a bureaucracy! They are always low velocity organizations" that's not necessarily true. For example, the US Navy's Naval Reactors program is a high velocity organization. Since 1948 the Naval Reactors program has put nuclear power plants into more than 200 Navy ships and submarines, operated for 5,700 reactor-years, provided propulsion for 134 million miles and suffered ZERO radiation leaks and ZERO human casualties.

So if we can build Naval Reactors that work as expected, under all conditions, all the time and every time, Northrup Grumman and DTMO could build a secure, online travel management system that would work as expected by the DoD traveler, under all conditions, all the time, every time.