Why is it so difficult to find good support Soldiers for AGR positions?

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 13:57:37 -0400

In both Special Forces companies I have been a part of, quality AGR support was extremely lacking. Lazy, corrupt, fraudulent, non-performing Soldiers were filling positions of key support in Admin and Logistics.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 2:07 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 14:07:21 -0400

You know what they say about reservists. Those who can't do in th civilian side go AGR.

Response by Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM made Jun 21 at 2016 2:10 PM

Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 14:10:05 -0400

That is because the quality is on the ground.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Jun 21 at 2016 2:13 PM

CSM Thomas McGarry — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 14:13:20 -0400

I think that we as Senior NCOs don't do enough to change the culture in some Units-I've experienced the same with some of the AGR Soldiers I've met in both the Guard and Reserves-One thing I will say is I've found that when a soldier happens to be from a minority group that there is a fear that if they are criticized or held to a standard; that the Senior NCO will be perceived as racists, some soldiers even use the race card as their ace in the hole. So long as all soldiers are treated the same there should be no fear of these accusations. Just an FYI-In the over 36 years of service I've had in the Active Army, Reserves and Guard Some of the finest soldiers I had the pleasure to serve with were from minority groups!!

Response by SPC William Weedman made Jun 21 at 2016 3:38 PM

SPC William Weedman — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 15:38:42 -0400

I think that maybe the AGR soldiers going in are good soldiers, but being in full time job with a few others, observing the civilians working in the same building (who can be worse than the AGR) knowing that there is really no Accountability causes them to perform poorly. My only experience was 6 years NG time in one unit with the same AGR staff. After 6 years it was one of the reasons I left, the AGR would put off & delay as much work as possible to the drill weekend and let the guard members catch it up. When I caught the training NCO in a lie because she never made a simple check that I made without her resources (she was also my platoon sgt, but was always "too busy" to bother with leading) I knew I was done. There was a NG PLDC course needing soldiers, I asked her to make the call to allow me to attend (I was not under any bar, holding an E-5 slot, promotable pending PLDC) I was told the course was full. The course was actually rescheduled due to lack of attendees after I was told it was full. I realized then I would never see E-5 in that unit and was not going to allow a senior NCO lie to me and still "lead" me. BTW in the 6 years I was there, only 4 soldiers were promoted to E-5, the majority of the squad leader slots were held by E-4 who needed PLDC.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 4:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:34:41 -0400

MSG,

I'd say you've made a pretty accurate assessment of a large percentage of AGR Soldiers both ARNG and USAR. While the programs are ran separately we share many of the same challenges. I can only speak to my observations as a USAR TPU Soldier and since 2007 a USAR AGR Soldier.

My first thought is why is any Soldier a bad Soldier? Well I believe SPC William Weedman hit the nail on the head with lack of accountability and I would add lack of leadership and development.

I've worked with a lot of trash TPU and M-Day Soldiers in my time in Support MOSs and even SOF if you count USACAPOC (A) as SOF. I can say the difference is scope of responsibility a M-Day trash E5 will be detrimental to his Squad or Team a Trash AGR E5 hurts the entire Company so there is a perception that the percentage is greater but I would argue that it is not.

More often than not these Soldiers are assessed into the AGR program with little training or functional experience and expected to work unsupervised. They need leadership and accountability to grow professionally.

Lack of career development opportunities I can't speak for ARNG but in USAR there is a general attitude that schools are for TPU Soldiers or core MOS Soldiers. When I was in USACAPOC (A) if you were not a 37 or 38 you were absolutely not a priority and were not going to school and the issue was double if you were AGR. We need to send these AGR Soldiers to school to help them grow professionally and bring the skills learned back yo the unit. Many Commanders think they are only fielding a force of core MOS Soldiers and leave their HQ Detachment untrained and wonder why they can't get quality support.

The short answer is they need the same things as any Soldier. They need to trained, they need leadership, they need accountability, and they need professional development.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 5:21 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 17:21:02 -0400

I'm looking for a job in 2018 after a quick trip to Korea... do you have anything in the Carolinas?

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 5:45 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 17:45:38 -0400

I would confront them and explain in a professional and respectful way how they are not leading by example. If they give attitude or ignore you then record their deficiencies, and report them to their chain of command. If that fails to work I would report it to IG how they are holding back the units by not performing, yet they fill positions that many great Soldiers would jump for the chance at. I would also report them to the AGR Accession office for your state.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 7:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 19:28:17 -0400

I just picked up an AGR job as a training NCO in an infantry company in Boston. I was m day for a year before starting, all after six and a half years active. My supply NCO in my current unit is great, and the one in my previous unit was the best I've ever had. Good, motivated support AGR is out there, good luck finding one, MSG.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Jun 21 at 2016 7:43 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 19:43:33 -0400

In my 2 years working with the AG as an AD soldier, I saw 1/3 studs, 1/3 average, and 1/3 duds.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 8:23 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 20:23:37 -0400

Because of the application process. I was interested in applying for an AGR position at my company. However it was put out as a technician position first with a 6 month contract. 6 months that would come up in the middle of winter. The only people that can apply for something like that are those that have nothing to lose. I have to provide for my family, and if there's no guarantee of employment for me, I'm not about to go looking for a job in the middle of winter. The job recently re-opened, but I won't apply for it, as I now have committed to working a different civilian gig.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 9:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 21:03:35 -0400

There are a lot of studs in the TPU side that would be wonderful additions to AGR. The issue that often rises is most people who would be great at the role don't necessarily benefit from going full time AGR. I as an E5 in AGR I would loose about 1,200 a month by switching over after calculating all the benefits, and the losses, not to mention it also forces me to go back and start again from the bottom if I was in that AGR position for any given point in time. Honestly its a hard sell.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Jun 22 at 2016 10:36 PM

SSG Mark Franzen — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 22:36:08 -0400

I was have to say go to the Commander and see if he can do anything have them removed from service. this day there is no discipline and every one is scared to say anything just let them Know where you are coming from.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2016 11:01 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 23:01:39 -0400

Many are. I am AGR and have to remind my peers constantly that our job is to support RC Soldiers to be successful. Without them, we have no job. Many AGRs seem to forget that. I was TPU for many years and have seen that type of AGR. Pisses me off.

Response by Amber Narug made Apr 10 at 2018 10:50 AM

Amber Narug — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 10:50:21 -0400

As a civilian and having worked along an USAR AGR soldier, I can honestly say that there are quality soldiers in the AGR program that serve selflessly and do what is right all the time. This particular soldier is human resource specialist and since joining the unit he is in, he has corrected numerous problems left by the soldier he replaced. I assisted him with the medical side as I was our local TRICARE representative for our hospital for his unit and he was always well organized and highly detailed in his work. Wouldn’t the key be to find a qualified person and then by name request them through HRC for a duty? I’m not entirely sure how it works because I am a civilian but treat those who are the best as such and make sure they are appreciated.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2018 12:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 12:45:39 -0400

I’m AGR NYARNG. I can’t say that I’ve experienced really bad AGRs in my career is it easy to get complacent yes. You must be disciplined first before becoming AGR absolutely No doubt. I never let myself forget that I have a job because of the M Day Soldier but I also expect the Soldiers on drill to do there jobs which doesn’t always happen. Then as AGR we pick up the slack and do there job to keep the mission going. I’m not saying all MDays are this way but some are. The AGR force was designed to set up drill for the M Day so they can do their jobs. AGR staffs take on what entire active duty units take on with far less personal

Response by SPC David Willis made Apr 10 at 2018 1:31 PM

SPC David Willis — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 13:31:28 -0400

Little late to the party myself, but as many have said you get what you pay for. Same reason many solid service members get out and do contracting work instead of doing another enlistment. Service to ones country is great and noble, but at a certain point you have to make a move for what's best for your family. At a certain point you do have to ask what your country can do for you especially if you've got several trips under your belt.