Why is it so hard to find good leaders that want to offer great mentorship?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 10:22:28 -0500

To further elaborate....

Why does it seem like there are more leaders that are trying to "take care of themselves" than the leaders/future leaders that are under them? It seems like so many "stripe wearers" today are so focused on what they can do to make the next rank, that they take away opportunities from subordinates that could better prepare them for the next rank or develop them mentally for new positions.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 10:35 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 10:35:15 -0500

I'd say it has to be a second order effect from previous leaders doing the same thing. I can honestly say that I have had few leaders try to develop me in the past. One of the few that took the time to do it looked out for everyone in the platoon and made sure they had the materials needed to succeed in the future.

Being an AIT PSG I get to see how instructors are preparing these young soldiers we get and try to challenge them during the course. One example is getting them to do the online JFO course through JKO. Along with this they will also take time during training to go back and hit the basics they learned in the first few weeks of training to see who is retaining the knowledge. On the flip side I believe there are those that are just filling a spot and waiting to move on to the next position. These guys to me have forgotten that they are an NCO and every soldier is their soldier.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 10:42 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 10:42:20 -0500

Vanity and selfishness. So many have lost sight as to the meaning of the NCO Creed and simply regurgitate it without taking time to understand the words. It's becoming a "ME" Army like the rest of our society. Here is the thing though. It only takes a hand full of us to turn it around. To be real NCOs that will instill the Army Values and tenets of the NCO creed into our up and coming NCOs as well as our peers and sadly sometimes our seniors. We have to constantly remind one another what right looks like by being right ourselves. Sometimes having a "bad" NCO around is ok. It allows soldiers to see the difference what right and wrong looks like and the impact these two types of NCOs make on the soldiers and the organization.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 30 at 2015 10:47 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 10:47:27 -0500

That's the environment the Army has created with the drawdowns. Leaders who spend their time taking care of their Soldiers and mentoring will quickly find themselves being shown the door because their less selfless peers will have spent all their time going to Audie Murphy boards, going to schools, going for badges, getting ASI's and SQI's, doing college on work time, going to the gym all the time and generally being out for number one. They are going to look MUCH better on paper, thus will be promoted...

It's the hunger games. If you don't look out for you, no one else will...

May the odds be ever in your favor.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Dec 30 at 2015 11:14 AM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:14:22 -0500

Because today's military isn't focusing on training leaders. There are so many "stripe wearers" that no one is training them how to be leaders. They are so concerned with advancing, they forget to take care of their people. The military needs a new leadership course, taught by we who have been there before, in the older regime, that learned from the leaders of old. I have worked for a lot of different leaders. Most of them bad by my older standards, but some of them still good.

Response by SFC Rapfeal Mayfield made Dec 30 at 2015 11:44 AM

SFC Rapfeal Mayfield — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:44:40 -0500

I think its because the army is becoming more competitive. Leaders have to spend more time on themselves rather than invest it in younger soldiers. Don't get me wrong , I'm not saying that it is the right thing to do, but it happens.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 11:46 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:46:18 -0500

I've seen it get worse over time. I enlisted in 2000. The issue was to many soldiers getting promoted too fast. They may know battle drills but they don't know how to help or mentor. We have to root this out ourselves. We have to expect our leaders to lead. If a soldier fails then we have to hold him accountable. That hasn't been happening.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 11:49 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:49:42 -0500

It's because we have been at war for over a decade. We have been working so hard to train warfighters, that we neglected to train Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, and of course Marines.

Warfighters are trained to defeat all opposing forces. They are trained to work as a team and win. Leadership in this scenario isn't about helping unless it's tied to winning. Warfighters have their purpose but off the battlefield their only focus is on preparing for the next deployment and little more.

There is the other category that this behavior spawns into, and that is careerism. Careerists only care about winning if it benefits themselves, and are the first to throw a teammate or a subordinate under the bus instead of taking responsibility for their own actions.

The other big element involved is the notion that MOS proficiency is superior to the standards. This ties in with the aforementioned, but is unique. We want our mechanics to be the best- at maintaining, and our operators to be the best- at operating. We don't enforce enough that we want them to be good leaders, which is why they promote and realize that they are not good leaders; they just want to maintain and operate. This isn't a new thing, and is in fact why we have MSgts- because they want to stay in there own wheelhouse rather than do anything else. I'm not saying MSgts don't know how to be leaders, but that is why we have that rank.

The best solution to the problem would be to remove senior Sergeants and Staff Sergeants out of their MOS for a 6-12 month period and put them in charge of a different section, or challenge them to take on more critical billets in areas they are not comfortable with. Good officers are already doing this, and it is working to an extent. Not knowing/not focusing on the MOS element ensures that these small unit leaders are focusing instead on the basics of being in the service- mentorship, guidance, and leadership.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Dec 30 at 2015 12:39 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 12:39:38 -0500

Mentorship is a challenge to people who are already overworked. Active folks you start your day I am guessing before 6 AM and get home if your lucky after 6 PM so there 12 plus hours in. If you have a family that sucks some time as well, bills, home maintenance, grocery shopping. Single throw dating life in there. Have one of those commands who thinks people should be there on weekends because something is down, or some "school of the soldier" thing. The time for true mentorship falls by the way side. Lets not forget class planning, Field exercises, keeping with mandatory useless power points, time is sucked away.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Dec 30 at 2015 1:19 PM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 13:19:48 -0500

It's not the first time this has happened. Back in the 90s, during the draw down the same thing happened. But, no mater what time, there will always be stripe wearers only looking out for themselves.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 30 at 2015 2:03 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:03:13 -0500

I got lucky. I told the 1SG to monitor all the NCOs, Senior NCOs to monitor all the juniors NCOs, Mid-Grade NCOs to monitor all the Junior NCOs, and the Junior NCOs monitor the welfare of the troops. I told all the NCOs to take care of (monitor) all the troops.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 2:12 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 14:12:22 -0500

Because the army starting to hit a point where rank matters most, because that's a hope in not getting cut from the team with this downsizing. It's also a matter of this, something nobody wants to hear, but something people don't get called out on, it's a matter of pride and laziness. The card of "that's private work", or "below me" gets played to much these days, and in turn makes it where leaders just don't care to put the effort in to mentor soldiers.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 3:01 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 15:01:23 -0500

Everybody is too busy with their heads down trying to row their career boat that they fail to look up and realize that if they propel those around them to be great that they intern will also become great!

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 9:51 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 21:51:45 -0500

I think the mentors are out there; you need to reach out to then when you do meet them and ask them. Leaders don't know who does or does not need a mentor. Nor do they know who does or does not want one. I'll agree with you in that there are plenty of people more focused on the next pay grade than mentoring or taking care of those under their charge, but I would argue that there are plenty who are willing to do the mentoring. Just like mentoring, finding a good mentor is a two way street. Reach out when you see one. Im not sure I have ever heard one say no.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 12:02 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:02:03 -0500

When an NCO talks about bad leadership I always tell them to take a look in the mirror. What are you doing to make our corps strong again? What are you doing to coach, teach, and mentor? The only leader you have any control over is yourself. Be, know, and do.....others will follow.

Response by SSG Melvin Nulph made Dec 31 at 2015 12:37 PM

SSG Melvin Nulph — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:37:14 -0500

That has been a situation for a long time and it was something I never cared for either. But I can say I didn't follow the others when it came with my soldiers, I wanted to be the weakest link in my squad as a NCO I never wanted the dealing that I failed them. I was also lucky that I had a few great NCOs that backed me and together we came up with ways to get our soldiers ready to be NCOs and took pride in them too. I hope you have that feeling with your squads, Platoons or what ever the case may be. It made waking up to start each day so nice, let me tell you.

Response by CW3 Dylan E. Raymond, PHR made Jan 1 at 2016 12:46 AM

CW3 Dylan E. Raymond, PHR — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 00:46:01 -0500

You might be looking in the wrong place? It is your responsibility to seek the leader out and ask the leader if they will be your mentor not the other way around. You have to own the relationshipp

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made Jan 2 at 2016 9:26 AM

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 09:26:02 -0500

I still think that people confuse "leadership" and "developing your subordinates" with "mentorship."

Mentor - protege' is a voluntary relationship. Developing your troops is part of the job. One's direct supervisor is rarely a mentor, and the mentor usually does not change with a change of job or unit.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2016 5:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 17:16:40 -0500

I totally agree SSG. Before I made 5, this past Aug, I can remember wanting to learn my job inside and out before I started. I had asked for a mentor and sought different opportunities that would allow me to learn because I was always told "it'll come with time". Wrong answer. I wanted to know what right looks like. I still do. I now have a pretty good base of mentors but that was a struggle to do. I am determined to be an NCO that mentors junior enlisted while at the same time, doing what I need to do for myself but this was one of the reasons I joined and eventually became my love for the Army. I hope that mentors can become something that is seen as valuable again or else we won't have many good quality leaders out there.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 12:25 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 12:25:42 -0500

I disagree that this is the result of the QMP. I do however believe it is because the Army became a job rather than a profession. NCO's have lost touch with the reality that they are in the profession of arms that requires dedication to a cause and team rather than self. We should put it on the O's as well but let's stick to cleaning our own front porch first.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 12:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 12:33:38 -0500

Just had an additional thought about the whole "QMP is the reason". When I started dating my wife twelve years ago she didn't talk much. Periodically I would ask her why this was. Initially it was because "that is the way that I am"; twelve years later "it is because you are an ass".

Point is, we NCO's let it go and should stop blaming it on anything but our corps and go out and do something about it.

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Jan 9 at 2016 6:04 PM

CW4 Brian Haas — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 18:04:46 -0500

Because too many are concerned more about themselves. Anyone reading this in this forum...I ask and challenge you...do you do your part and reach out to Soldiers? Do you take the time to listen to your own subordinates? Do you recognize good traits in others and foster a relationship with them and help them succeed? Most, unfortunately, do not, and it is us that fail ourselves, and that becomes the new standard. I disagree with one that said someone needs to seek out mentorship. Maybe to a degree, but the folks with experience need to be looking for those that need it and offer it. Take some responsibility, make sure our future is set for the times when we are retired.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 3:19 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:19:46 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, I myself asked this question recently, and I have managed to find a couple good leaders through this network that are helping to square me away. It certainly showed me that there ARE still good leaders out there. But I do see your point; they are quickly becoming few and far between.