Why is it that no one enforces the regulation AR 385-10?

2014-06-08T10:38:31-04:00

Why is it that no one enforces the regulation AR 385-10 chapter 6-5, but are quick too get everyone on the walking and talking.

Response by 1SG Jeffrey Bergeron made Jun 8 at 2014 11:17 AM

2014-06-08T11:17:23-04:00

It will depend on the chain of command, if safety is a priorty for the commander than there will be some type of reprimand, however I haven't seen many article 15s for a safety violation in 25 years of service.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jun 8 at 2014 11:48 AM

2014-06-08T11:48:07-04:00

"No one enforces" AR 385-10, SPC Wardin?

AR 385-10, The Army Safety Program

6–5. Headphones
Using portable headphones, earphones, ear, or other listening devices while walking, jogging, running, skating, skateboarding, and bicycling, including pocket bike, MC, or moped, on DOD installation roads and streets, or adjacent to roadways or roadway intersections, is prohibited.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2014 12:11 PM

2014-06-08T12:11:38-04:00

If they are wearing the APFU you should correct them immediately regardless of rank. Unless, there's a post policy stating otherwise, normally when inside the gym it is allowed by the CG's post policy. If they are outside they should NOT have it on and the standard SHOULD BE enforced.

When in civilian clothing it is hard to enforce that policy because you don't know if they are a civilian.

Response by SSG Joshua Locke made Jun 8 at 2014 12:18 PM

2014-06-08T12:18:42-04:00

I have been an MP for 8 years, and I can tell you right now that if any of my see any of that, you are going to have a pretty $h!tty day

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2014 4:25 PM

2014-06-08T16:25:35-04:00

The problem is that we are in a new age of technology. Most of the time ( not all the time) Soldiers are utilizing the phone via earphones. Some Soldiers assume that if I can walk and talk on the phone in civilian clothes then it should translate to doing this with headphones on. 385-10 needs to be to be re - looked IOT truly represent the times. The safety concern is there but as with all regs, Father Time had a way of enduring relevancy.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2014 6:40 PM

2014-06-08T18:40:13-04:00

I want too thank everyone for their response.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Jun 28 at 2017 1:44 PM

2017-06-28T13:44:33-04:00

Chapter 6-5 is also illegal in most states. People don't realize it but if you have headphones on or earbuds in and you are other than on the sidewalk you are breaking the law. Unless you have at least one side or one earbud away from one ear so you can hear traffic. This includes anytime you cross the road including crosswalks, jogging or walking on the side of the road, bicycling, riding a motorcycle or scooter, or driving.

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Jun 28 at 2017 6:44 PM

2017-06-28T18:44:32-04:00

I thought I read a comment someone made about it was up to the unit commander or whatever to enforce it. I know a few things about regs and one thing I know is you can add to a reg but you can't take away from it. If AR says it is prohibited.........then it is prohibited.

Response by Maj Darrell Woods made Jun 28 at 2017 11:09 PM

2017-06-28T23:09:26-04:00

Hmmm, I wore the original Sony Walkman while jogging on base...along roads...in the late 70s and did so with various portable devices throughout my career and many bases. No one ever said anything, and I didn't even know it was an issue. 40 years later I still listen to music whether biking or walking. Safety overkill.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2017 9:56 AM

2017-06-29T09:56:22-04:00

Rules for the sake of having rules. This is why it's best to just stay the hell away from military installations whenever you're not on duty.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2017 10:09 AM

2017-06-29T10:09:07-04:00

I enforce this standard, but I think your larger point is why are certain things enforced, such as walking and talking on a cellphone, but others are not, such as wearing headphones while doing PT (etc).
In a nutshell, recent years have seen us relax in a lot of ways in garrison. Units have spent years getting ready to deploy, deployed, and recovering from deployment, so some standards just sort of lose focus in importance. It has gotten to the point where you have to be a pretty old Soldier to remember the "old Army", as we are 16 years deep in GWOT now.
The answer, my friend, starts with you. Be the standard, know the standard, and enforce the standard. Be unafraid and unbowed by barracks lawyers that call you names and threaten to call your mommy, or theirs.
Rules are there for a reason; this one is one of safety. One need look no further than civilian land to see why it is in place, and for further reinforcement I submit that Joe in his new Dodge Challenger or mudder truck is a crappy and inattentive driver that one must be alert to, on and off post.

Response by SGT Timothy Strashinsky made Jul 14 at 2018 4:48 PM

2018-07-14T16:48:50-04:00

Ya garrison policy 2014 fort carson authorized use of cell phone use while in acus. And walking with them it was the oddest thing.

Response by PO1 Michael Hyland made Jul 14 at 2018 5:01 PM

2018-07-14T17:01:54-04:00

Also, during my 21 years, if we in public we were required to wear dress uniforms, fatigues, today called BDUs, were only allowed if on a detail, or traveling between work place and off base quarters. Was always proud to wear dress uniform or wear civvies, who are you being camouflaged from?

Response by SrA Kevin Piatek made Jul 14 at 2018 6:09 PM

2018-07-14T18:09:08-04:00

Air Force had the same reg, when I was in Korea it was strictly enforced and every say people were being stopped for it

Response by PO3 Ben Dunsworth made Jul 14 at 2018 6:09 PM

2018-07-14T18:09:41-04:00

While stationed at Groton New London Sub Base the MAs would come over their PA system in their vehicles and get on people that had headphones on or earbuds in while outside. It didn’t matter what activities they were doing.

Response by SGT John Berry made Jul 14 at 2018 7:42 PM

2018-07-14T19:42:18-04:00

Regulations have not kept up with technology

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Jul 14 at 2018 7:49 PM

2018-07-14T19:49:08-04:00

Sounds like you are looking for a reason to bust ass. More important things to worry about. And no, I never liked MP’s. When I made Sgt in Germany I had to ride with an MP Jeep about once a quarter. They were beating up our GI’s for being drunk on payday. The 3rd Cav. Sent out their own patrols to protect their troops.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 14 at 2018 8:23 PM

2018-07-14T20:23:32-04:00

No one...? Really...? Literally No one...? Why aren't you?

Well... one of the first rules of leadership is don't issue orders that you are unwilling or unable to enforce. So one of my responses is that who ever is the signing authority of AR-385-10 has violated that rule of leadership. My guess is that if he/she needs to visits an installation. Upon seeing the widespread lack of enforcement, he/she needs to find the CG, lock his or her ass in the position of attention and eat about 10 lbs of ass. Then inform the subject CG that he/she has two and only two choices; 1) provide a convincing argument that the order is petty and pointless, (3 calendar days to comply) or start calculating how much damage will be done for the next promotion board to review. My guess is that there will be an avalanche of $%#! rolling down hill.

The above also illustrates my second rule of leadership: What gets inspected well, gets done well.

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made Jul 15 at 2018 11:03 AM

2018-07-15T11:03:28-04:00

Yes the standards have fallen and I have had this experience in the last few weeks. So this old retired guy is in line at the local AAFES and I see this SSG in his dress pants, white shirt and get this, his crocs! Since the fine officers and sergeant in line were not concerned I caught him outside and inquired about his uniform appearance. His reply was “Don’t concern yourself since your not a soldier, plus a few other words. I informed him that I was retired and disappointed that he was not living up to the creed or Army standards.
As for AR 385-10 it should be enforce if it is still the standard. I have had to remind my fellow workers at my work place that it applies to them as DOD employee.

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made Jul 15 at 2018 1:53 PM

2018-07-15T13:53:59-04:00

At one point in my life I would have worn earphones when I ran or rode my bicycle. But not anymore.I was running on a back country road with civilian friend when I heard a rattle from the grass along the road. My buddy didn't. A 3 1/2 ft Timber Rattlesnake bit him on the calf.
Nope it ain't worth it.

My buddy's bite was called a dry bite at the hospital. Very little to no envenomation.

Response by Sgt Daniel J. Daly made Jul 16 at 2018 12:15 AM

2018-07-16T00:15:09-04:00

Well really can comment because when I was in the USMC we didn’t have those type of things as we walked, ran or jumped.

Response by Sgt Frank Staples made Jul 16 at 2018 10:24 AM

2018-07-16T10:24:01-04:00

Based on my experience I’d say that a large percentage of wrecks start with cellphone usage!

Response by SGT Bill Everidge made Jul 16 at 2018 2:48 PM

2018-07-16T14:48:43-04:00

Besides being unprofessional in appearance, it poses a safety threat. I personally don't know of an NCO anywhere that wouldn't enforce the standard. If you're an NCO and you're not, you are part of the problem.

Response by SSG Kirk Brickle made Jul 16 at 2018 4:57 PM

2018-07-16T16:57:23-04:00

I have a guestion on another subject that needs to be addressed. We all know that smoking in prohibited in government buildings and vehicles but what about vaping? I had to go to the S shop in my old unit and everyone in there was vaping. Blowing huge clouds of smelly chemicals . Isn’t this against regulations also?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2018 6:40 PM

2018-07-16T18:40:35-04:00

I don’t where this is at but I do enforce this regulation every chance I get. As far as the use headphones and earbuds in the Army PT Uniform as long as you are inside the gym you are authorized to wear them. However, once you step outside they have to come off, and they are not authorized to wear in the pt uniform while doing organizational PRT.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2018 9:30 PM

2018-07-16T21:30:00-04:00

All rules need to be enforced. That’s the problem the army is getting to relaxed. You correct a soldier than that said soldier wants to cry to the IG.

Response by SFC Ken McClain made Jul 16 at 2018 10:20 PM

2018-07-16T22:20:41-04:00

I can see this being an issue of on a road heavily traveled, but on a running track or path, even on a long stretch of road say those that are typically traveled by troops to get to training ranges should not matter. The runner should be running toward on coming traffic anyway.

Response by SFC Walter Cook made Jul 17 at 2018 2:22 AM

2018-07-17T02:22:19-04:00

The standard is what a good NCO stand by period.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2018 3:24 AM

2018-07-17T03:24:03-04:00

If it’s a closed road during PT then head phones are aloud cause it’s like being on the track.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2018 6:34 PM

2018-07-17T18:34:30-04:00

https://www.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/434471.pdf

There are updates to this policy as prescribed in this link. Headphones are now authorized in areas where safety is not a concern. Most posts I have been on included the running track in this as long as it didn’t mix with traffic in any way. It isn’t that it isn’t being enforced, it is that regulations have changed.

434471.pdf

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Response by SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD made Jul 17 at 2018 11:18 PM

2018-07-17T23:18:04-04:00

I’m fine with that. Discharged 50 years ago. What I personally think is a crock is standing at parade rest for NCOs. No such thing when I was in.

Response by 1SG Rob Smith made Jul 19 at 2018 12:27 AM

2018-07-19T00:27:32-04:00

I once had a Soldier who wanted to wear his during an APFT. I CHEWED HIS ASS REGARDING THIS AND WHAT THE REG STATED ABOUT WEARING HEADPHONES. I MADE IT CLEAR THAT IF I CAUGHT ANYONE WEARING THEM ON COMPANY TIME OR IN AN UNSAFE WAY, THEY WOULDNT LIKE MY FORM OF CORRECTIVE TRAINING. I AM AND FOREVER WILL BE OLD SCHOOL ARMY. SO SERGANTS, GET YOUR SOLDIERS BACK IN LINE.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2018 7:47 AM

2018-07-19T07:47:08-04:00

We have enforced this but when counseling statements comes around higher ups just care about passing numbers so if it helps the soldier pass APFT it’s ok. It’s to lax anymore!!!!

Response by SPC Daryl Powell made Jul 19 at 2018 12:56 PM

2018-07-19T12:56:30-04:00

It’s a common sense regulation. Or would you prefer to get hit by a car because you don’t hear it coming? If you’ve been down range and faced eminent danger on a daily basis, and feel invincible back in garrison then you have a rude awakening waiting for you if you don’t practice common safety precautions.

Response by SSG Keith Dawson made Jul 19 at 2018 1:56 PM

2018-07-19T13:56:05-04:00

Hooah!!! Rules are rules for a reason...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2018 6:18 PM

2018-07-19T18:18:45-04:00

Depends on the base, was at FLW fpr a while and they enforced no headphones form everyone from trainees to drill sgt to first sgt and up followed it or got corrected

Response by SGT Thomas Harkins made Jul 19 at 2018 9:38 PM

2018-07-19T21:38:57-04:00

Basic breaks down to NCO that have seen combat will let little things slide because it’s not worth the paper work, and not get ready for combat. I believe once the Army settle down form combat for awhile the army will start enforcing the reg again.

Response by SSG Brian Carpenter made Jul 20 at 2018 1:38 PM

2018-07-20T13:38:54-04:00

We all know that due to so many deployments that basic standards have been lacking. But if you are a leader and you are not correcting every broken regulation just give up your rank and go back to being a E-4 or get out. You are the problem. If you are scared of your soldiers complaining then how can you lead them on deployment?

Response by SPC Herb Jorgensen made Jul 20 at 2018 3:09 PM

2018-07-20T15:09:25-04:00

Well I see and area where the discretion of common sense,where as many don't have any.That said the most offensive of this discussion was at the Air Force address of a commander ,as he denounced sexual harassment.As he addressed almost everyone in the room were holding a cell phone to record the event.I find that not only totally disrespectful of the command but also find the commander /csm lacking at the very least demanding they PUT DOWN the phones.Today no one responds. they just stand by and film.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2018 5:23 PM

2018-07-20T17:23:30-04:00

If the focus of our army is the prohibited wear of headphones, we have more problems than we think.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2018 5:37 PM

2018-07-20T17:37:39-04:00

I had an LT get me on this reg 2 days ago... they’re still enforcing it.

Response by PFC Clarissa Thomason made Jul 20 at 2018 6:13 PM

2018-07-20T18:13:20-04:00

You would think it was common sense to not do these things while participating in any kind of activity that is already in a way dangerous in itself. Seriously why do you feel the need to use headphones while running or a cell phone when walking. If you want to use headphones while working out go to the gym it’s a controlled environment and there is usually a track or a treadmill.

Response by TSgt Michael Rhodes made Jul 20 at 2018 8:06 PM

2018-07-20T20:06:35-04:00

Regs are in place for a reason, they should be enforced or changed!

Response by SGT Scott Coyle made Jul 21 at 2018 6:50 AM

2018-07-21T06:50:23-04:00

Now as an MP on duty or off duty I have and will continue to uphold this reg. I have written 1408’s for this very thing. Then the command get the ticket as well as it hitting the blotter. It is so unsafe and it up to everyone to set the standard. AR’s are there for a reason.

Response by MSG Daniel C. made Jul 21 at 2018 2:55 PM

2018-07-21T14:55:29-04:00

That was a rule very strongly enforced by 3rd Army in Kuwait when I was there in 2010. There were tracks and other places not near the streets where you could run and use headphones to your heart's content. The rules are there for everyone's safety. I would agree that sometimes The Army Goes a little over the top with some things but chances are the rules came from someone being hurt at some point in the past. I certainly don't see the harm in having a small Bluetooth if you're speaking on the phone so you're not holding a phone to your head but as the CW3 said sometimes we have rules for the sake of rules.

Response by SFC James Jones made Jul 21 at 2018 2:57 PM

2018-07-21T14:57:59-04:00

Here is a thought. If you don't want to follow regulations get out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2018 3:04 PM

2018-07-21T15:04:32-04:00

Bullshit! My fellow TLs and I are HUGE on this reg. Discipline in the army has gone down so much and we’re sick of this crap about not enforcing the standard or making sure our guys know not to do this again. Most NCOs will teach us to use corrective action such as a counseling, an essay and so forth. If new soldiers learn from that it’ll be a miracle. No i dont haze my soldiers, but they will be face to face with the ground if i catch them following the standards. Unshaved in the morning? Get down. Hole in your trousers? Get down. Oh your phone call is so important that you have to walk and talk? Get down.
I dont care if anyone thinks im not respecting my soldiers. I love my soldiers and want them to turn out good. Its not toxic to enforce discipline.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Jul 21 at 2018 10:49 PM

2018-07-21T22:49:11-04:00

Don't MPs have more important things to worry about? Sigh. If you want to run with headphones/ear buds go off post where there's no MP/hall monitors and you don't have to wear the ridiculous glow in the dark belt.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2018 10:13 AM

2018-07-22T10:13:31-04:00

I always inforced it

Response by SGT Eric Allum made Jul 22 at 2018 10:29 AM

2018-07-22T10:29:13-04:00

For the sake of safety due to today’s youth. adjust the regulations to allow 1 ear bud for safety so soldier can still hear vehicles - (PT is important) But walking down road cell phones should be out of site either with Bluetooth or 1 ear bud from a well placed phone inside a pocket. I was an MP as well times have changed the army needs to adjust

Response by SSG Shane Mason made Jul 22 at 2018 9:24 PM

2018-07-22T21:24:00-04:00

Simplest way to put this when a standard is not enforced it’s a new standard set

Response by 1SG William Hemingway made Jul 23 at 2018 8:06 AM

2018-07-23T08:06:56-04:00

You know the standards, now.encorce them.

Response by SGT Frank Allen made Jul 23 at 2018 8:44 AM

2018-07-23T08:44:53-04:00

Whilst I was in head phone wee as lard as coffee cups

Response by SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez made Jul 23 at 2018 2:27 PM

2018-07-23T14:27:31-04:00

This reminds me on been stopped by a Senior NCO in South Korea as I was walking back to the barracks from the gym. I don't recall his name, but identified himself through an ID card. He basically broke it down to me that if I have headphones full blast, could I hear vehicles coming? Especially at corners or crosswalks. Is it safe? I replied with no. That was the last time I wore headphones on post or any other installation.
Now that I'm retired, I work in DC, and I see nothing but people walking around with headphones on, not paying attention on the vehicles coming down the road, or running a red lights. Which by the way, I almost witness someone getting hit by a bus that ran the red light. A lady in front of me waiting to get across was about to step off on the cross walk. She didn't hear the bus coming because she had headphones on. I held her by the shoulder, and pulled her back. Who knows what would've happened. This mainly for safety. And if you don't want to follow rules, then go somewhere else.
But it starts with you SGT Wardin. You see something wrong, you point it out.

Response by SSG Jonathan Glab made Jul 23 at 2018 3:50 PM

2018-07-23T15:50:02-04:00

Chillax commanders on certain installations has amended the reg to allow headphones on designated routes and tracks

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2018 4:05 PM

2018-07-23T16:05:51-04:00

Two years ago I left AD and mov d to the reserves. To be honest, like CW3 Chad said, there are soooooo many rules that are in place just to be rules. That goes for many customs (which are enforced as rules).

Quite frankly, how many people have the majority of us ever known that got hit wearing headphones while running? Maybe one or two of us might know of someone, and that may not have been the actual cause of it. The point is that we are soooooo over cautious thatvyheres a rule for everything. The PT belt is a perfect example.

What about other traditions such as only using a notepad instead of taking digital notes? Copying notes on a laptop will get you cussed out in a staff meeting. Guess what, in a board room EVERYONE has a phone, iPad and a laptop and is actually utilizing the time in the meeting to act on their tasks as their being given or when their issue isn’t up for for discussion.
Personally I’ve brought the civilian board room idea of production over rank status to my battalion and training calendars are updated before we leave the meeting.

There are many more examples of useless regulations that will hopefully go by the wayside. (Such as UCMJ between consenting married military members, which are usually divorced or polyamorous).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2018 7:55 PM

2018-07-23T19:55:22-04:00

Well... back in 1986 when I had a "Walkman" ( Yep I'm old as crap) I got called out wearing headphones on post @ 32nd street Naval Station. This was a milti-service wide rule put in place for safety. When in Rome, do like thd Romans. Once your off post, do what the heck you want

Response by SFC Charles Diers made Jul 23 at 2018 8:39 PM

2018-07-23T20:39:56-04:00

Female Drill Sergeants use head gear chin draw string.

Response by SFC Killo Serafin made Jul 23 at 2018 10:25 PM

2018-07-23T22:25:44-04:00

The Military is getting to slak ! They are allowing to many foreigners set they own standards because of religious beliefs ! plus they are letting RAG HEADS in our Military ! I was in charge I say F ! NO !

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2018 5:12 PM

2018-07-24T17:12:35-04:00

I actually know people on Ft. Bragg who were pulled over by the MPs there for riding their bikes with headphones in, so it has been enforced in recent years... though, like a lot of regulations, I'm sure not as often as it should be

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2018 5:40 PM

2018-07-24T17:40:53-04:00

I read somewhere recently that only 25% of our citizens youth are even qualified to join the army mainly due to being out of shape. That said, if they want to listen to Pearl Jam running and maintaining themselves, I’m fine with it. Everyone is different and motivation comes in various forms. This is another excuse to maintain an archaic rule. Winning the battle with black socks was the same argument. Ultimately it was found to be pointless.

Furthermore, as a safety issue, we should also teach self reliance. Be aware of ur surroundings. Learn personal responsibility. Create an environment where people want to work out and maintain themselves.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2018 6:23 PM

2018-07-24T18:23:37-04:00

My 1sgt asked me about the reg about my cib and eib, I said yes the one I have ignored for yes.
He's right and I am wrong .

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2018 6:24 PM

2018-07-24T18:24:06-04:00

That was years

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2018 8:52 AM

2018-07-25T08:52:25-04:00

Don't have an aneurysm, but I'm about to go put on an apfu and jog while listening to my ipod and not care a single bit who prohibits it

Response by TSgt Rudy Adame made Jul 25 at 2018 11:45 AM

2018-07-25T11:45:50-04:00

Even when we were jogging or riding our bicycles , we never used ear phones.

Response by Sgt Richard Rourke made Jul 25 at 2018 11:59 AM

2018-07-25T11:59:37-04:00

Good answer!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2018 11:51 PM

2018-07-25T23:51:42-04:00

I am all for enforcing the rules. I just hate being the only one. For example; standing in the chow line in FHL California, I noticed female soldiers with their hair down, while in PTs. I approached them and politely, which is unusual for me, told them it needed to be up while not performing PT. They looked at me in disbelief, but complied. My issue is, why didn’t any of the 100 or so NCOs do or say anything?

Response by PO1 William Ewing made Jul 26 at 2018 12:05 AM

2018-07-26T00:05:33-04:00

The navy reg on that is to allow one ear only, for safety.

Response by SP5 Robert Cole made Jul 26 at 2018 8:25 AM

2018-07-26T08:25:55-04:00

It seems to me we are getting a bunch off wimps in the army now .cone on just keep your mouth shout and do what your told your in the army now .and in trying to be nice here.

Response by SPC Gary Welch made Jul 26 at 2018 2:39 PM

2018-07-26T14:39:45-04:00

In addition to the safety factor walking with head phones and cellphones distract you from military decorum it is the same reason you are not allowed to carry anything in your right hand when you are in uniform

Response by SPC Paul Golden made Jul 26 at 2018 11:35 PM

2018-07-26T23:35:47-04:00

I reminded (tactfully, as most Soldiers I saw in violation were senior to me) that they were in violation of this regulation. Most just blew me off...seems that nothing major has changed.

Response by MSG Patrick Guillet made Jul 27 at 2018 1:29 AM

2018-07-27T01:29:15-04:00

Different army than I was in, weak soldier and leaders, afraid to hurt people feeling. Afraid to enforce standards.

Response by PFC Elijah Rose made Jul 27 at 2018 5:16 PM

2018-07-27T17:16:12-04:00

Because screw that regulation and everything it stands for.

Response by SSgt Max Gonzales made Jul 27 at 2018 11:06 PM

2018-07-27T23:06:46-04:00

We didn't have to worry,our instructors scared us spitless.

Response by MSG Jefferson Stinson made Jul 27 at 2018 11:16 PM

2018-07-27T23:16:57-04:00

It should be enforced if it's near or on roads were cars and vehicles are because you cannot hear the traffic coming and you will get run over it's just common sense!!!!

Response by SSG Frank Copeson made Jul 28 at 2018 6:57 PM

2018-07-28T18:57:09-04:00

Just follow the rules. It’s that simple.

Response by SGT Rob Baker made Jul 28 at 2018 9:27 PM

2018-07-28T21:27:27-04:00

I was in from 86 to 96. Infantry. 3 different duty stations. We were never allowed to wear head phones during duty hours or PT. From the things I’m told the Army has gotten very lax. When you start letting people break the rules even mediocre ones they will break the wrest if they can get away with it. It’s also a good way of teaching them a lack of respect for the core values... I guess it’s time to bring back some of the old school NCO’s. Because I didn’t take crap when it came to regulations. The Army made me the man I am today and I will always owe them for that.

Response by SCPO Clark Gertner made Jul 28 at 2018 10:05 PM

2018-07-28T22:05:24-04:00

So many rules can make them all seem petty. I've been caught with my backpack slung ovet just one shoulder and running outsid when the black flag was raised (no one said we had to stand down in Iraq or Kuwait when it was 127 and we were fully kitted-up, so a little 95 degree PT didn't seem too outrageous). However, I think that troops who are educated as to why the rule exists are more likely to get on board with it.

Response by PV2 Chris Jackson made Jul 28 at 2018 10:05 PM

2018-07-28T22:05:54-04:00

This is the first time I've heard of AR 385 -10, then again I never used headphones while I was walking or doing any of the previously stated activities, especially since I didn't own a vehicle or motorcycle during my time in (pre 9/11) the only time I ever did use them was during my down time in the barracks or on the Greyhound bus between Drum and south station in Boston Massachusetts

Response by MGySgt Steve Reep made Jul 30 at 2018 4:32 AM

2018-07-30T04:32:38-04:00

A military with no discipline is bound to fail.

Response by Sgt Frank Staples made Jul 30 at 2018 10:41 AM

2018-07-30T10:41:57-04:00

I’m old...we didn’t have them when I was in. But I would imagine that you can jog or do pt without listening to music. I also realize that this generation can’t take a leak without entertainment! And now I photograph wrecks and the troopers check cellphones automatically...I’ve done three fatal wrecks in the past year involving calls...one victim was talking to his mom, one was talking to his dad, and one was talking to his sister when he died!

Response by SR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2018 11:42 AM

2018-07-30T11:42:46-04:00

I've seen reduction in rank for this at Naval Station Great Lakes. Guy was using both earphones in uniform, went from E-4 to E-3.

Response by PV2 Chris Jackson made Jul 30 at 2018 11:55 AM

2018-07-30T11:55:03-04:00

I never knew of AR 385-10 during my enlistment, then again my outdoor runs outside of leave were always done with my squad and or platoon, and very rarely used them when I was doing PT on my own at home or the gym

Response by SgtMaj Glenn Woods made Jul 30 at 2018 3:16 PM

2018-07-30T15:16:47-04:00

Much bigger fish to fry!

Response by SGT Michael Hartman made Jul 30 at 2018 3:27 PM

2018-07-30T15:27:46-04:00

Seems pretty straightforward to me. And simple to enforce.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2018 8:19 PM

2018-07-30T20:19:00-04:00

Yea bullshit I remember being a Pvt at FORT LEWIS watching SGM stop his truck in the middle of traffic to rip some ass for head phones while doing PT

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2018 11:33 PM

2018-07-30T23:33:14-04:00

I just got someone today walking and talking on the phone. It brought Joy

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2018 9:41 AM

2018-07-31T09:41:03-04:00

Try running with headphones on anywhere on Ft Bragg during PT hours and see what happens...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2018 10:11 PM

2018-07-31T22:11:46-04:00

They updated the regulation to allow use of headphones inside a gym, correct? I’ve been out for three years and am currently going through the process to re-enlist.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2018 10:24 PM

2018-07-31T22:24:24-04:00

I am huge on safety and do not allow any of my troops to wear the ear buds headphones etc.

Response by SGT Christopher Hinson made Aug 1 at 2018 5:45 PM

2018-08-01T17:45:03-04:00

Common sense

Response by SSG Juan Serrano made Aug 2 at 2018 9:12 PM

2018-08-02T21:12:18-04:00

Most people don't enforce them because they are nonsensical rules. Plain and simple only insecure folks on power trips care about stupid rules.

Response by SGT Frank Ortolani made Aug 3 at 2018 7:12 AM

2018-08-03T07:12:17-04:00

I always see officers and senior no always on phone and walking

Response by SGT Frank Ortolani made Aug 3 at 2018 7:14 AM

2018-08-03T07:14:53-04:00

Like what's wrong with walking and smokeing when u can walk and dip or chew

Response by Sgt Lorenzo Glover made Aug 3 at 2018 4:02 PM

2018-08-03T16:02:19-04:00

These rules aren’t enforced because they’re stupid. We have the same rules on Marine Corps bases. The problem is that no one actually cares if you walk and talk on the phone. Listening to music while running is essential the global standard of exercise, and for gods sake why should anyone truly feel so strongly about this topic, that they would go out of their way, to waist everyone’s time to address adults doing normal things?!

Response by Sgt Chad Umbach made Aug 3 at 2018 11:17 PM

2018-08-03T23:17:16-04:00

Is this really what we are discussing?

Response by PO2 Tommy Hale made Aug 4 at 2018 1:38 AM

2018-08-04T01:38:25-04:00

This must be an army thing. 20+ years ago we could run with head phones on our own time. PT was a different matter as it was in formation.

Response by PO3 Craig Clemens made Aug 4 at 2018 7:19 AM

2018-08-04T07:19:53-04:00

Agree

Response by SP6 Becky Gwin made Aug 4 at 2018 8:41 AM

2018-08-04T08:41:45-04:00

SSG... Thank you.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2018 10:25 AM

2018-08-04T10:25:14-04:00

The installation we train at has contract security that instructs its officers (which I am one as my full-time gig) to notify all people that come on base (civilian and military) that the base policy requires a hands-free device while driving. If a person is on the phone, they will be made to pull over and finish their conversation before entering base. Also, the SF officers on base will pull them over and write a ticket.

Response by CW3 Lou Peyton made Aug 4 at 2018 2:03 PM

2018-08-04T14:03:15-04:00

How the Army has changed. Do they provide safe spaces? This is not my Army. I am sure they are glad people like me are gone. “Old Army” is gone. Is there still a stockade on any post?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2018 4:59 PM

2018-08-04T16:59:31-04:00

If rules aren’t being enforced because predeployment, deployment, and redeployment activities are taking priority, it says a lot about the importance of those rules. Focus on what’s essential to mission and survival; the rest is busywork or an attempt to unnecessarily control others.

Response by SSG Joseph VanDyck made Aug 4 at 2018 8:21 PM

2018-08-04T20:21:56-04:00

As a former DS, and definitely civilian reservist retired, I am definitely guilty of this one, 1 time on FT Knox. I was just so used to my headphones and music while working out at the COP in Bdad and the IA Camp Al Kasik, Iraq during both deployments. A CSM quickly righted my course.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2018 5:32 AM

2018-08-05T05:32:32-04:00

My unit enforces it

Response by PO1 Duane Mosier made Aug 5 at 2018 7:39 AM

2018-08-05T07:39:06-04:00

Safety first! I’m a cyclist, hearing traffic and knowing what is coming up behind you is a must! It’s just plain common sense. Also as a member of the military you are government property and they pay all your medical bills.

Response by SFC Kazim Mohammed made Aug 5 at 2018 9:20 PM

2018-08-05T21:20:07-04:00

So how many soldiers have been injured wearing headphones? It's like spitting on the ground.

Response by SSG Jesse Cheadle made Aug 5 at 2018 10:35 PM

2018-08-05T22:35:57-04:00

SGM Quick called you SPC Wardin.....

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2018 8:53 AM

2018-08-06T08:53:17-04:00

It’s so funny how people get wrapped up over silly things. “We must enforce the standard!” Is there platform. The truth is people in the military just like to yell at each other. The longer you’ve been in the military the grumpier you get. Headphones? Seriously, this is the hickory stump to stand on? “The military was different before the war.” I keep seeing that a lot. Yes it was and it sucked. It’s better because people are using that thing between their ears more often. “Do because your ordered to do so!” This mindset is thankfully coming to an end.

Now I get to see all the grumpy people complain about my comment. Hahahahaha

Response by SP5 Gary Smith made Aug 6 at 2018 4:14 PM

2018-08-06T16:14:27-04:00

So...smoking dope to ease the boredom of guard duty is out, then?

Response by SFC Richard W Middleton made Aug 6 at 2018 4:58 PM

2018-08-06T16:58:56-04:00

I’m from the OLD ARMY(1960 - 1969). Enough said

Response by CWO2 Duane Austin made Aug 7 at 2018 9:21 AM

2018-08-07T09:21:35-04:00

Being politically correct is the new norm. As a former NCO. You have to take the bull by the horns,because your officers are to worried about making rank, and your subordinates do not respect you.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2018 1:29 PM

2018-08-07T13:29:46-04:00

I’ve been using headphones since I was a kid whether walking or riding the bus or running. But some how when I joined the Army I lost the common sense to be able to function with headphones on hmmm especially when I’m on post

Response by SP5 Charles Goldsmith made Aug 7 at 2018 5:34 PM

2018-08-07T17:34:40-04:00

I'm old school. What does GWOT MEAN?

Response by SGT Lance Savoy made Aug 7 at 2018 9:54 PM

2018-08-07T21:54:58-04:00

Honestly didn't know about AR 385-10. It was never an issue for us even being in a Light Infantry unit, and we ran a lot!! Wasn't allowed during PT but on own time, could see people all over Ord plugged in running. Never paid attention to anything like this at Banning when I left Ord. Maybe I just didn't care about it when they were on their time.

Response by SGT Justin Chiang made Aug 8 at 2018 12:39 AM

2018-08-08T00:39:05-04:00

More often than not I see field grades and senior ncos skating on this reg.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2018 4:13 AM

2018-08-08T04:13:51-04:00

I enjoy running on base and every time I’ve ran in civilians I always wore my headphones. I had no idea this was against regs. As a new NCO I will imply this to my soldiers. I love running and I would love to pass this passion onto my soldiers.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Aug 8 at 2018 7:59 PM

2018-08-08T19:59:30-04:00

I'm long done and gone, but personal safety is never frivolous, and safety was always the highest priority. Your dealing with the 5% crowd of young men or women who don't pay attention or are unsafe, so there has to be a way to protect 100% whether you like it or not. Your in the military , and your life isn't always your own, but you know that. IMO it's a senseless argument that's ridiculously petty.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2018 2:37 PM

2018-08-09T14:37:19-04:00

I received a $50 ticket for jogging on Fort Devens with headphones on

Response by CPL Aaron Mixon made Aug 10 at 2018 10:54 AM

2018-08-10T10:54:22-04:00

What about discipline what ever happend to that? Oh yeah thats right we now have ptsd from basic training, so now we can only talk to soldiers like their mommy! I remember old army it was way better than the butter cups of today.

Response by SGT Mark Rhodes made Aug 11 at 2018 9:23 PM

2018-08-11T21:23:14-04:00

I think a lot of it is that we have been at war and deployed to multiple tours so when we are in garrison it’s a relief to everyone who makes it home to relax on some of the stress put on units and soldiers. So some standards may get dropped or pushed aside until it’s go time again.

Response by PO2 Brian King made Aug 12 at 2018 12:33 PM

2018-08-12T12:33:37-04:00

It’s not enforced because it’s a STUPID rule. Lien someone else said, rules for the sake of having rules. Retention and morale would skyrocket if hey would get rid of all the stupid shit.

Response by SPC Sean Kennedy made Aug 13 at 2018 8:38 AM

2018-08-13T08:38:06-04:00

Well I know at Fort Belvoir as a gate guard we don’t enforce any laws or regs, it’s not what the command staff wants, we’ve been instructed to make sure people come through the gates have a “pleasant customer service experience” the only thing I do is ask people on the phone to be hands free while driving

Response by LCpl Tad Cunningham made Aug 14 at 2018 10:05 AM

2018-08-14T10:05:24-04:00

Higher ups are unable to multitask, walk and text for example, so they get mad that junior enlisted are so skilled at it. How dare they be better at something than Master Sergeant so and so.

Higher ups are able to have their records converted into a handheld computer like device and plug this white earbud things into it and listen to cadence all day.

Short answer: higher ups don't know how to text and walk and love listening to cadence so they wear headphones during PT to get the motivation flowing.

Response by Shane Powell made Aug 15 at 2018 6:39 AM

2018-08-15T06:39:55-04:00

Safety is like a hedge row. Proper safety increases productivity and creates a more stable workplace. Lack of safety or excessive safety kills productivity and destroys morale.

Response by CPL Jared Peay made Aug 15 at 2018 7:21 PM

2018-08-15T19:21:32-04:00

An MP with this much time on his hands??

MPs are the biggest offenders of regulations. In my opinion.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2018 1:20 AM

2018-08-16T01:20:18-04:00

Lets focus on enforcing AR 670-1 before we worry about headphones. Whether its FT. Cambell or Schofield Barracks I see regular violations of basic Army customs and uniform/hair policies. Start at the ground then work on minutiae.

Response by PVT Dennis Armstrong made Aug 16 at 2018 2:02 PM

2018-08-16T14:02:35-04:00

What is it now a day for regulation for wearing a cap in a DLFAC FACILITY

Response by SGT Jon Creager made Aug 16 at 2018 8:08 PM

2018-08-16T20:08:25-04:00

http://usahec.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/pageflip/collection/p16635coll11/id/1520/type/singleitem/pftype/pdf

Military Publications - Army Regulations - USAHEC

Response by SP5 Paul Nipper made Aug 17 at 2018 5:04 PM

2018-08-17T17:04:00-04:00

Military or not, when mobile, it is extreme unwise to be distracted. That is why you see various states motor vehicle codes prevents hands on cellphones, eating, drinking, while operation of motor vehicles. It may be austere to keep one undistracted in PT, walking, etc. There is normally a reason for the rule, normally the benefit of the violator.

Response by Fixly Gibbles made Aug 17 at 2018 6:46 PM

2018-08-17T18:46:44-04:00

Nobody enforces it because SMA Dailey got rid of it over a year ago

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2018 4:05 AM

2018-08-21T04:05:20-04:00

This regulation is kind of irrelevant because what’s the importance to it? What’s the reason behind it?

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2018 11:24 AM

2018-08-21T11:24:00-04:00

Does the rule apply only to on duty troops?
Does the same rule apply to off duty Troops in uniform?.
Does the same rule Apply to off duty in civies?.
DOES THE SAME STANDARD COVER BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE?
I Served under a much older Army. We didn't have today's Electronics. So there was 0 issue with them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2018 11:49 PM

2018-08-22T23:49:29-04:00

I’ve been lead to believe that headphones are allowable ONLY while in a CLOSED track. Once you take to trails, sidewalks, along roadways, etc. then they’re a huge NO GO.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2018 11:50 PM

2018-08-22T23:50:29-04:00

If soldiers lived the standard then no one would have to enforce the standard. Why do other lower enlisted guys expect only leadership to enforce regulations? If a private sees a staff sergeant doing anything against army standards and regulations he has a duty and obligation to respectfully correct him. It's called general military authority. Be the right thing, know the right thing, and do the right thing. If everyone lived up to that then they would be the standard not the one on whom the standard is being enforced. In fact there would be little enforcement at all because army regulations would be so instilled into them in time doing the right thing would (as it should) become "muscle memory"

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2018 5:59 PM

2018-08-23T17:59:30-04:00

Im confused as to where you are at, and what your installation policies state. I've never heard of these this being approved or authorized anywhere.

Response by SFC Glenn Kozak made Aug 24 at 2018 12:46 PM

2018-08-24T12:46:59-04:00

I would not let Soldiers use headphones during the APFT, but many of them did during their individual runs.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2018 1:43 PM

2018-08-24T13:43:57-04:00

I was in active army during 85-89 and the head phones rule was strictly enforced in europe as well as state side. I suspect as others noted, having a phone rather than just a walkman attached has a lot to do with this. Cell phones are so embedded in our society now. The bigger risk is giving up our position and the security of our Comm’s down range.

Response by SPC Andrew Phillips made Aug 25 at 2018 3:07 PM

2018-08-25T15:07:34-04:00

Wow, that’s what we are concerned about, that’s what you mean by “discipline”, not wearing headphones. The Army would be better if it didn’t have so many mindless drones and government bureaucrats pretending they are Soldiers.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2018 9:35 PM

2018-08-28T21:35:42-04:00

Depending on the post the CG has decided it's ok to pt with headphones. Generally on closed tracks etc.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2018 8:41 PM

2018-08-29T20:41:07-04:00

One reason is that this regulation has actually gotten a bit more strict than it used to be. The current paragraph states "Using portable headphones, earphones, ear, or other listening devices while walking, jogging, running, skating, skateboarding, and bicycling, including pocket bike, MC, or moped, on DOD installation roads and streets, or adjacent to roadways or roadway intersections, is prohibited." If you look up legacy versions of this regulation this paragraph is still present, but exceptions to the paragraph are listed. Those exceptions included designated running trails, roads that close to vehicle traffic during physical training hours, designated running tracks, physical training facilities such as gyms (which were later re-introduced via a DA memo), and sidewalks that were separated from roads by at least 3 feet of grass or other surface. My experience has been that many leaders enforce the legacy version of the regulation even if they do not realize it because that one is less draconian while still enforcing a common sense safety standard. Additionally, our culture has become much more accepting of technology in general with headphones and earbuds being part of that technological change. It also appears that SMA Dailey is much more accepting of headphones than SMA Preston was. He was the main proponent behind removing the exceptions from 385-10. He REALLY did not headphones at all and wanted them completely banned from all Army instillations. This includes within gyms when you were doing PT in civies on your own time.

Response by SGT Ken R made Aug 29 at 2018 8:48 PM

2018-08-29T20:48:10-04:00

Read the book "Band of Brothers". This fall under the definition of chickenshit he describes in the book. Seriously, there are more important matters to attend to....

Response by SGT Ernest Huerta made Sep 21 at 2018 11:40 AM

2018-09-21T11:40:53-04:00

For openers, when in uniform, cellphones and Rinky Dink games found on most, ARE NOT PART OF THE UNIFORM!

Response by Brian Sylvester made Oct 24 at 2018 7:45 AM

2018-10-24T07:45:27-04:00

As a safety specialist I am more concerned with the texting and driving epidemic. If you are conducting pt on a trail or fitness center then there is no harm and not a safety concern.

Response by MSG Moises Maldonado made Oct 26 at 2018 12:36 PM

2018-10-26T12:36:45-04:00

I truly believe that Some regulations are Not enforced because in Today's ARMY we have(Some) Senior NCO's running the Units that are Pressed to be "Politically Correct".. They by Far are from the 80's & 90's , Surely Problem Soldiers themselves that Don't have the "Spine" to make Corrections.... Wearing Head Phones in PT?, Going Places Off Duty(Off Post) Shopping?, Wearing a Rainbow Colored(pun Intended here) Backpack in Uniform while going to the Hospital with their Children?.. A Tattooed Covered Body that Sorely Contrasts with the Uniform big time? etc etc.. Those were NO NO's in my Time.. (Drafted in 69, Retired in '91).. If you asked me, I'm a bit Disappointed in that Regard.... Yet I fully Support Our Troops and Wish them Well... GOD Bless our Soldiers everywhere..

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Oct 27 at 2018 11:17 AM

2018-10-27T11:17:30-04:00

Every time a leader fails to enforce a standard, they have just created a new standard. In the end, like safety, it is EVERYONE's responsibility to check each other. The Army (military) is a FAMILY. Fmailies don't always get a long, but should always have each other's backs. We are trained to pay attention to detail, because in combat paying attention to detail saves lives. If we don't practice how we play we will lose. Standards are part of being "beast" every day. The BEST soldiers don't cut corners or make excuses, they follow the guidelines, rules, standards, regulations, FM's, SOP's, etc. Survival on the battlefield depends on it. Imagine the soldier listening to his headphones on guard duty? Imagine Private Snuffy not reading "FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY" on the claymore. Not pretty. It all starts in garrison.

Response by Brian Sylvester made Nov 7 at 2018 6:59 AM

2018-11-07T06:59:33-05:00

The standard is common sense based. If you are inside a gym then headphones are ok. If you are outside running or walking on post then you can not wear headphones.This is a safety standard made to support situational awareness. Reg says nothing about not wearing inside fitness centers.

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Dec 2 at 2018 7:49 PM

2018-12-02T19:49:10-05:00

Good question, been that way for a long time

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 2:05 AM

2019-01-08T02:05:29-05:00

It's all about common sense. Some rules are just stupid and, they are enforced by Nazis because of the mindset... my penis is bigger than yours. Really ? Is this what the military has come to? Worrying about wearing earbuds while doing PT in a gym ? smfh
Reminds me of the law in Alaska that stipulated you couldn't be drunk in a bar. LOL !!!

Response by SGT Shane Larson made Jan 8 at 2019 3:51 PM

2019-01-08T15:51:52-05:00

One of the best unit PT programs I ever saw was in the 90s most of our Company had 250s or above as a Aviation Company was based on a few rewards on the score you got. Headphones wasn't a thing really then. But if you scored over a 270 you got to show up to accountability and leave after to go to the gym 2 of the 3 pt days... I enjoyed working out at the gym with my Boom Box. Music is a motivator. Streets and other areas like sidewalks and crosswalks absolutely not but maybe on a pt field I could see it if there running mindless loops around a field. So where safety is concerned never, but in a few places for PT that should be up to the unit, the Army is a bit rigid for many reasons including safety but shouldn't be afraid to adapt and overcome in some situations.

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Jan 8 at 2019 5:33 PM

2019-01-08T17:33:52-05:00

As in our civilian society, the Military has bowed down to individual wants or definition of rights with buzzard lawyers always looking for a fast buck

Response by CSM Bruce Trego made Jan 9 at 2019 1:09 PM

2019-01-09T13:09:17-05:00

I support this rule. It is in response to a safety issue. If you are listening to cell or earphones, you are not paying attention to your surroundings. But there are a few rules that have been put in place that were just a whim of some desk rider that should be done away with. This has to come from someone higher that SGT Jones! It needs to come from officers and senior enlisted members that respect their men/women and understand that things are different know. That is the challenge. Is today's leadership up to it? We will see!

Response by SSG Gerald King made Jan 11 at 2019 10:50 AM

2019-01-11T10:50:04-05:00

What is: AR 385-10 chapter 6-5

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 1:28 AM

2019-01-14T01:28:24-05:00

? !!!