Why is rendering honors to the flag such a big deal?

2015-02-14T04:09:14-05:00

I will never understand why individuals feel that rendering honors to the flag is such a hassle. One of my biggest pet peeves is seeing individuals, regardless of rank, standing inside the doorway waiting because either reveille or retreat is playing or about to play. I have lost count the number of times I have kicked their butts out the door. To me the flag is a symbol of what I signed up to defend. When I stand there saluting the flag I am not saluting an object, I am rendering honors to an idea. It is an idea that I hold near and dear to my heart. I take pride in the fact that I am a part of something bigger than myself. I am rendering honors to those brave servicemen and women who have gone before me, those that will come after me, and those that have paid the ultimate sacrifice in defense of that idea. Just my two cents worth......

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2014 9:29 PM

2014-08-06T21:29:41-04:00

When I was stationed at Ft. Stewart we would have put formation at 0630 and we would all respect colors. I do know some bases are different than others, but personally I thought that was a great example of setting a standard.

Response by CMC Robert Young made Aug 6 at 2014 9:38 PM

2014-08-06T21:38:40-04:00

Senior, also one of my pet peeves!! We are blessed to live in the greatest country the world has ever known; showing a little respect when it's due isn't too much to ask!!

I have experienced the same phenomenon, and all such occasions have taken charge of the group (typically stragglers trying to avoid formation) and double timed them to the unit's formation, or other suitable place where they were "offered the opportunity" to participate in one of our most treasured traditions.

There's no better way to start the day than being there for the raising of the flag.....unless it's being out front of the group leading Morning Colors!!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2014 10:22 PM

2014-08-06T22:22:32-04:00

It's refreshing to see I'm not the only who feels this way. I've been retired since 96 and it burns my ass when I see it happen today. About 4 weeks ago, I was the last one leaving our emergency operations center (Ft. Stewart) and as I was locking the gate right at 1700 hrs the music began over our giant voice. I stopped what I was doing and faced toward the Post Flag Pole. In the armor battalion motor pool next do, I saw 5 soldiers working on their M1 still and acting as if they didn't hear anything. So in my "old" 1SG voice, I shouted out, "HEY, YOU DICKHEADS HEAR THAT MUSIC AND KNOW WHAT TO DO, NOW DO IT!" They then jumped to parade rest and followed suit thru the end of Retreat. Afterwards I walked over to just talk with them when their 1SG came up wondering why there was a Civilian in the motor pool. Instead of busting them out, I said I was a former Scout/Tanker and was asking some questions and that I worked in the EOC next door. He had seen me before and we had nodded greetings. After I got back to the gate, one of the Soldiers came running over and said, "Thanks for not telling the First Sergeant, he would have had our ass!" I told him, I didn't see the need, I hoped I made my point with them, but next time, I will tell him and also about this time! He said, "Oh, it won't happen again!" Hopefully my old philosophy still works...handle problems at the lowest level. Every problem and correction doesn't have to go to the First Sergeant.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Aug 6 at 2014 11:01 PM

2014-08-06T23:01:40-04:00

Alright Senior Chief I have to assume that of a "group was getting ready to go to another building," you or the senior person was going to march them. If so, then none of them would have had to worry about saluting since you would have put the formation at attention facing the flag and saluted for them.

Of course since this was the Navy Yard, I can also assume you might have been one of the junior persons there and the complainer was a JO, or not so J of an O. in either case, glad you did not blow your top. I would have stepped out at 07:59:50 as they were hiding, and shown then how a Sailor addresses Colors. If this did not sufficiently embarrass them then step two would be a public dressing down to the "group" right after Colors.

Response by SSG John Durham made Aug 6 at 2014 11:14 PM

2014-08-06T23:14:52-04:00

In November 2003 on Schofield Barracks, HI it was 1700 and several of us that had walked to the clothing and sales store were rendering honors. A truck drove by and showed no signs of stopping to join us in rendering honors. Next thing I know a SFC ran over to the truck, and started Chewing that soldiers rear off.

Since then I try to do something of the same effect. Just the other day while moving the BCT PVTs to the DFAC I stopped them in the road and faced them towards the flag and put them at Present Arms. While I was also rendering honors, a truck went all the way around my formation to keep going. You better believe I spotted that truck and gave that man a piece of my mind.

At Fort Knox, KY they have signs up all around post that say EVERYONE should stop their vehicle and render honors regardless of who they were. I wish all post would do this and enforce this.

Its all about Respect.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2014 12:50 PM

2014-08-07T12:50:51-04:00

As a Marine MP we enforced Colors. Though honestly not much needed to be enforced our our base. Now that I am old and cranky, I get very irritated when I see others not respecting colors. I think perhaps we as a nation do not place the emphasis on colors as we once did. As a society we show that it no longer matters. I believe that respect for our colors/flag/old glory is being sullied from the top down, I mean the very top. Well documented instances of disregard for tradition, which is what all those impressionable minds are seeing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2014 6:10 PM

2014-08-20T18:10:54-04:00

Senior Chief, you find the offending party, have them do burpees while you give them a ten minute long speech on respecting the colors ( I wish). I guess that you chew them out some, and then explain the importance of saluting the flag in the morning, what it means, etc

Response by Maj Matt Hylton made Aug 20 at 2014 11:51 PM

2014-08-20T23:51:33-04:00

That doesn't annoy me as much as if I see someone start running to get inside right as the Giant Voice kicks on - we have about a 3-4 second delay between the "click" on and the music starting. I've seen several people try to run and "beat the music" so they wouldn't have to stay outside.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Sep 14 at 2014 4:30 PM

2014-09-14T16:30:30-04:00

I ran across this recently in response to what happens during Evening Colors when there is an Important Event or Person giving a show. Robin Williams found out and all of us need to understand the answer and take it to heart. If he can accept it, why not all of our troops?

Robin Williams Gets Actus Interuptus at Camp Arifjan, Kuwait

comedian doing a comedy routine when he experienced a military tradition. ATTENTION!! We are moving! Because of YouTube's new policy against military related...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2015 4:18 AM

2015-02-14T04:18:08-05:00

Like most if not all regulations that people don't comply with, it's just a matter of convenience. That's where you've got to be the one to call them out and set the standard. Explain the why to them and hold them to the same standard for themselves and with others. If no one makes it a big deal then people will continue to care less and less.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2015 4:22 AM

2015-02-14T04:22:15-05:00

I believe it is a lack of pride and professionalism. I get out of my car when I'm driving on post to render honors. I take pride in it. It often reminds me what it means to serve.

I still get goosebumps when I render honors for the National Anthem. I'm a warrior at heart and I feel honored to salute my flag.

Obviously, not everyone shares our passion or professionalism.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2015 4:35 AM

2015-02-14T04:35:17-05:00

I think a lot of things go into the lack of service members obeying/participating in customs and courtesies.

One of the biggest things is that leaders have failed to teach the Army/military/unit history. That is one of our basic responsibilities as NCOs. We have been busy teaching war fighting for the past 14 years and some things have definitely slipped off our radar. We must find the time to teach our young service members the importance of the flag, saluting, unit history, etc. So they can carry on the traditions when we are long gone.

When I first assumed duties as a battalion CSM I noticed that the companies fell into formation in the morning, the 1SG would take accountability and then let the PSGs take charge for P.T. Everybody would just march away to their platoon P.T. area and then the cannon would fire and reveille would start. After I saw that gagglescrew I made the companies stay in formation, have the 1SG call them to attention and present arms, and then release them for P.T.

It is important to instill the pride and discipline in our service members and it is the NCO who is responsible for that.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Feb 14 at 2015 5:17 AM

2015-02-14T05:17:16-05:00

I can't wrap my head around why people, esp. SMs, will go out of their way to get out of doing it. Sometimes, I think it is because it isn't heard. I work on McChord Field, and it is really hard to hear it if I am not paying attention to time. Maybe it is the same reason that Soldiers will walk way out of their way so they don't have to salute officers. Laziness. I still get tears in my eyes when they play the national anthem. I get so pissed when people are talking or otherwise not paying attention when that is played. It is kind of funny, when I am inside my own home and the national anthem is played, I stand at attention with my hand over my heart.

Response by 1LT Michael Crilley made Feb 14 at 2015 5:18 AM

2015-02-14T05:18:53-05:00

To me, there's lot of gray area in there. You have a total lack of respect in cases like the Airman hiding in her car during Retreat and posting a selfie of it on Twitter/Facebook a couple years ago. Similarly, seeing troops scattering for cover at three minutes till retreat... I never understood that. Stand and wait inside, or stand and show respect for the Flag which you have sworn to defend. That's always been an easy decision for me.

On the other hand, if you are walking out of the PX or shopette and Retreat is halfway played, IMHO the respectful thing to do would be to wait in the foyer and continue out when it's over.

I have to agree with the sentiment of previous replies: The younger generations just aren't being taught about respect in general any more.

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Feb 14 at 2015 5:57 AM

2015-02-14T05:57:07-05:00

What's interesting...while we may have all seen it...no one on RP has ever done it.
What does that say about members of RP?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2015 7:14 AM

2015-02-14T07:14:20-05:00

Good discussion SFC Private RallyPoint Member and I agree with MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member about what rendering honors means to me.

What is most disappointing is the continuing trend where we -- as values based service members -- are so defensive anytime anyone "insults our service" or disrespects us, our peers, the uniform etc.

Get caught not upgrading a veteran to first class on a flight? Sick the dogs on 'em! Don't give me a discount at a store, even if what I am buying has nothing really to do with my service? You are an unpatriotic business! Stolen valor? Unforgivable, even if you have mental issues that might mitigate our wrath.

We spew the venom, but when we are driving home or even at the house and the music plays, do we display our patriotism then? Or do we just talk the talk?

I long for a community of veterans and active duty members that does things for the right reasons, sets the example when no one is looking. The few remaining WWII veterans that I am privileged to know always render honors. With little strength, they always render the most inspiring salutes at ball games -- though other might think they look feeble, they look proud and majestic to me. Korea and Vietnam vets also exude pride, patriotism and nationalism when rendering honors. What is so hard?

We have no one to blame but ourselves and we can't have it both ways. If SSgt Private RallyPoint Member is correct, then that is disheartening. We either truly care, are true patriots and are truly patriotic or we are selfish, are not values-based and are not representing those who have served before us but are no longer with us.

We can do better and we should always do better. Happy Valentine's Day, Damn it!