Why is there no paid program to enable our Veterans the ability to easily transfer from Military Service to Civilian Service?

SGM Clarence Zarnes — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:33:03 -0500

Our Nation’s 1%ers volunteer to put themselves in harm’s way for the betterment of this Great Nation. In addition to the Service Member’s selfless service, their families often have to make huge sacrifices for their military spouse. However, when Service Members complete their service to the Nation they and their families are essentially kicked to the curb.

I believe this action or lack of action sends the following message to our Heroes, “You are good enough to put your life on the line for our Nation and thank you for your service, but you are not good enough to take on a position of equal stature in our Nation’s Civilian Workforce”.

When the Military takes on a new member their previous education and experience are taken into consideration. They are provided the opportunity to start at a higher position. Even when a Service Member changes branches of Service, they are provide training to help them assimilate into the new Branch of Service. With this transfer and training they are often transferred with equal stature and pay, on occasion they are reduced to the next lower level. In these cases, most of the individuals are often promoted quickly back to their previous stature within their previous Branch of Service.

Our Nation needs to implement some sort of paid training program that enables our Veterans the ability to transfer from Military Service to Civilian Service with equal pay and stature. This paid training program would allow them to assimilate into a civilian occupation of equal pay and stature. It is reasonable that in some cases Service Members may have to take a slight reduction in pay and stature to get started in some occupations. But it is also reasonable that they would quickly excel, like in the Military and return to a level equal to their Military pay and stature.

Too often we hear of Veterans having to take civilian positions and wages that are well below what they maintained while in the Military. This usually results in the financial ruin of the Service Member and Family, which can lead to divorce, homelessness or worse.

There is much more to say atop this soap box, but since I am preaching to the choir, I will save it for another day.

Thanks,
Clarence

Response by SFC Rocky Gannon made Dec 12 at 2013 4:38 PM

SFC Rocky Gannon — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:38:42 -0500

SGM, great points and there are some programs out there that maybe most don't know about. There is ACAP which I can tell you, from working at HRC, a lot of money is put into. The is COOL, where you can get certifications that the Army will pay for that relate to your MOS. There is troops to teachers, where they help place you and get certified as a teacher, and several others. I believe that the Army should promote them more among the troops, but the money is out there and the programs are there, just not many are taking advantage, just my thoughts.

Response by SFC Rocky Gannon made Dec 12 at 2013 4:53 PM

SFC Rocky Gannon — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:53:32 -0500

SGT Keen So you did not do your VA physical and paperwork before you got out? That was one thing you had to complete with the VA before you could clear ACAP for me? Also when did you state the process you can what 2 years out. I did not do that but I used it a lot and the resources that they provided. I did not get out witht he job I wanted, working at HRC, but I did get a government job and 5 months later the job at HRC.

Response by 1SG Frank Rocha made Dec 12 at 2013 4:55 PM

1SG Frank Rocha — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:55:32 -0500

SGM,

There are, in fact, many programs designed to bridge the gap between what qualifications civilian companies require and what the military requires. some of them are in the military, some on the civilian side. One such program is an Airframe & Powerplant course, provided by the military, that helps you attain that certification. Another, civilian program, in california allows service members with training on certain "heavy" military truck tractors the ability to attain their Class A drivers license easily using their military training. They are there but sometimes you have to dig. one might say they are a bit scattered.

What I feel is missing is a one-stop shop for all these, what I will call, "bridge" programs to be accessed and promoted to service members. We should not have to discover these programs by accident or through the grapevine. As a Army National Guardsman and reservist I can tell you there are most definitely efforts being made to provide employment opportunities to service members. Can I say they are considered for positions commensurate, or at least related, to the job skills attained while serving on active duty? no I can't because If I were a maintenance supervisor on active duty, then that skill set should transfer to the civilian world right? Can anyone say for certain that I would land a position as a maintenance supervisor in a civilian organization? The likelihood is slim but not improbable. With added certifications our military experience can be "validated" for the civilian population to accept. The transition becomes more seamless.

Just my 2 cents.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Dec 12 at 2013 4:58 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:58:35 -0500

The basic idea expressed here is great. Sure, it would be great however, I'm not sure how successful it would be in practice.

First off, you have to find a way to get the Veterans there. I've ran into a lot of Veterans that once they get their DD214, they ignore the DoD and VA for their own personal reason. How would this program's director overcome this hurdle?

Second, in my experience I've had to work my way in and up the ladder. I started with Del Monte Foods on the Help Desk, learning how things worked in the civilian sector. I moved around to a few different companies picking up new skills along the way and finally ending up here at AAA as a Network Administrator. I'm not saying that Veterans deserve to start at the lowest job in the company. We have skills and traits that our peers do not because you can't learn what we have learned from books, lectures and PowerPoint slides (although the Army tries to kill you with them). A Veteran needs to know how to prepare and present the best resume possible based on his/her skills and knowledge. Sure, if you got as a senior NCO or Officer, you aren't really going to be interested in entry level jobs. You will want something that you can use your management skills in.

Lastly, some companies may not have the budget to provide a salary at or above what you were making in the service. While initially interviewing, I knew about what my year salary was in the service and that helped me come up with a number for what I was looking at getting from the civilian sector. The one problem I've seen from Veterans is they leave the service thinking they will land a $75K, $100K, $125K a year job. And while those jobs may be out there they are limited.

So with all that being said, I would be interested in seeing what ideas people have that this program, if available, could do to help assimilate to the civilian sector.

Response by 1SG Glenn Aldrich made Dec 12 at 2013 5:35 PM

1SG Glenn Aldrich — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 17:35:18 -0500

SGM,

Although I have seen this process first hand, I can only disagree with the premise. Here is why... As some here have stated, ACAP (or like programs) get lots of money but with very little pay off. I worked in a sector where I saw a lot of resumes and ACAP ones were the worst. If ACAP were aligned to the civilian sector the way it should be and get the retired 1SGs and CSMs that are completely clueless about the real civilian recruiting environment, then maybe it would be worth while.

There is no room in the budget for any additional programs. When our wonderful government is looking at cutting further into our already hard pressed benefits, there is no way for a program with this kind of reach to get any traction.

The military as a whole needs to change its mind set for their own and the good of the veterans. Here is my point: Certifications can be gained in every MOS, at every level. The structures are already available in the civilian sector, put them into practice in the services. A commo soldier that works on IT related stuff, should be getting and maintaining IT types of certifications in order to be competitive in their MOS. Combat arms Officers and NCOs should be required to get program management, leadership, training, organizational development, etc. certifications such as PMP, Six Sigma, Agile, etc.in order to be competitive in their MOSs. Once leaving the service, you are not competitive with 20 somethings straight out of college because we lack the education and certificates to get through the HR system.

Most hiring managers would love to interview and hire veterans because they understand our worth, but the HR departments DO NOT review resumes, a computer does. It searches for key words and education. If you can get through the initial process, then maybe you can get an interview. There is no magic formula because I have a degree but am forced to take a part time job because of my very limited skill set. I made good money in the contracting business, but once I left the military community into a metropolis, things changed. I'm older with skills that scare the hell out of civilians. Seeing drill sergeant and multiple tours to Iraq on a resume or during an interview puts them off. PTSD and TBI are all that they see so they are concerned about work place violence and harassment.

Most separating service members that want to retire and get a job making what they made in service are crazy. With a retirement and disability, you could make out quite well with a lower paying job. Those that do not retire, well you need to understand that you must start off lower and learn and work your way up. I agree that all of the lip service that is given to "let's hire our vets", is garbage. We all possess the knowledge, skills and abilities that they claim to want, but they are not looking for people to get the job done. They are looking for sheep that they can herd around. We understand initiative, working in teams and getting the job done with the least amount of guidance. In short, we scare most managers because they know that we could come in and take over.

All I want is a job commensurate to the level of responsibility that I had as a First Sergeant. That may be asking a lot, but I was good at what I did and I loved it. Retiring was a decision, but not being able to make a difference in an organization is killing me.

End of rant.

Response by SGM Clarence Zarnes made Dec 12 at 2013 7:18 PM

SGM Clarence Zarnes — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:18:57 -0500

@ SFC Gannon, Thanks for your response. You are correct about the programs you mention and that they should be better promoted. But the reason that many are not advantage is because they provide little benefit to most.

@ SGT Keen, Thanks for your response. You are an example of what I just said to SFC G about the programs provide little benefit to most.

@1SG Aldrich, Thanks for you response. You are right on track with what I am trying to get at and you make many of the same point that I have made in the past. Rant or not, you are right on target with your message.

@@ SGT Keen, Thanks for your follow up response and your concerns are valid. What I am proposing is a government regualated program that a service member transitions into from the military, pays them thier current military salary, trains them in what they need to be successful in a civilian position similar to pay and stature in the military, and then they remain in this paid training program until they are hired or for 6 months, which ever comes first. That's a basic layout.

@ SFC Camp Roberts, Thanks for your response. You are correct about the bridge programs and they are helpful to some. But what I believe is needed is a DOD/Government ran program for all Services that provide a paid training program for service members leaving the service.

Response by SFC Rocky Gannon made Dec 12 at 2013 9:35 PM

SFC Rocky Gannon — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 21:35:24 -0500

All you have made great points!!! I attended ACAP at Ft Leavenworth (no from the outside in inside, LOL) and they did have the Kansas Department of Labor conducting all the classes. They spend lots of time on the Resume and how to properly do a civilian resume, my only thing was CPAC came and gave a class on like the last day on Government resumes (USAJOBS) and that was a joke. A lot of us try to stay with the government because we know it. We also had the Kansas Veteran Affairs person come in and give classes and had job leads you could apply and follow up on. Not sure about all bases, but I think they did a good job on most parts.

On the other programs, I found that if leaders will talk with the education counselors they will come to the Units and explain a lot of these programs, how they work and guide soldiers into them. Not sure of the right answer, if anyone wants/needs information let me know, I will go to TAGD and to the department and get you information to try and help.

Response by LTC David Haines made Dec 13 at 2013 10:46 AM

LTC David Haines — Fri, 13 Dec 2013 10:46:35 -0500

My observation--at the grassroots level ACAP needs to "up its game". I think the system is probably pretty good, but for many of the individuals on the front line working with the Soldiers, it's more about checking the block with filling in paperwork and class attendance and little actual coaching going on. Part of the fix needs to be these ACAP advisors being first, real experts in translating military skills and experience to a resume (some CAN do this) and second, being plugged in to the various local, regional, and national networks that veterans can get into to make their transition successful.

Response by SPC Michael Martinez made Dec 13 at 2013 12:09 PM

SPC Michael Martinez — Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:09:49 -0500

SGM Zarnes, I am a veteran that has been able to take advantage of many paid programs that have helped me transition. From Patriot's Express Loans, to Workforce Assistance, to Paid Training. However, most of the assistance I received, I found by beating the bushes. I found out about many of the opportunities after they had expired.

Response by SGT Allison Churchill made Dec 13 at 2013 12:22 PM

SGT Allison Churchill — Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:22:02 -0500

I found ACAP (at Fort Hood) pretty underwhelming, mostly because I think a lot of posts forget that if you're a younger and/or single service member, you might not have a lot of ties to that area. They also don't seem to have caught up to the fact that more and more people aren't joining straight out of high school. Many still do, but the population enlisting with a bachelor's seemed to increase, as well as those who might have worked before enlisting/getting commissioned.

Response by SFC Arnold Curry Jr made Dec 16 at 2013 9:35 PM

SFC Arnold Curry Jr — Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:35:20 -0500

I don't understand why it's a issue about jobs it's more unemployed people in American than it is jobs...we can't demand a company to make a job just for us veterans. Yes we fought for our country and did what we had to do but me being a Sr leader I. The Army for over 20 years I know for sure I seen hundreds and heard fellow Sr say the same exact thing about today's soldiers have no discipline. Every soldier isn't cream of the crop and should compete like others yes give them the 10 point credit but they still want cut the mustard. I love my fellow Soldiers to the max but be real about everything