Why is time of service or time on job considered when recommending some for an award when it's not annotated in AR 600-8-22?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 07:24:38 -0500

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Nov 10 at 2016 7:28 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 07:28:54 -0500

It's contextual information. Someone with more time is in theory better prepared for the tasks making it a larger accomplishment. What is impressive for a "new guy" may be mediocre for someone who has been doing it significantly longer.

We use "rank" as a denoter for Scope of Responsibility (setting upper and lower bands for the award), but "time" designates experience further narrowing the band to the "most appropriate" recognition.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Nov 10 at 2016 7:54 AM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 07:54:31 -0500

I would say it is about cumulative impact and up to the discretion of the approving authority. All things equal the longer you have been there the greater impact you will have had, since you have had more time to make accomplishments. Also in my opinion performing at a high level is our job and what highly dedicated people do regardless of awards. Therefore, doing that for a short time period doesn't merit an award or a very low level one at that. I have seen this apply not only to enlisted Soldiers, but also officers. A commander I know had her MSM downgraded as she did not complete two years of command and the CG felt her achievement did not warrant it. I don't have the reg in front of me, but I believe the MSM actually stated at one point meritorious service over a period of time, but time is relative.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Nov 10 at 2016 7:57 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 07:57:32 -0500

SFC,

Good morning,, You know the deal good leader write their soldiers awards but our senior leaders and Officers just like NCOERs and OERs we are writing them ourselves. Look man I've been our of the Army 2008 working here at this agency and I watched a LT write his own award for 1 year at the agency, I admit he did a great but I don't he is deserving the award he wrote himself up for. Guess what? it was approved, because of the buddy system. Now I've been here for 6 years and they know I put in for a higher position across the street and I put in my IDP/IPMS that I'm looking for better opportunities on the outside in my career field because I'm going nowhere. So I wrote myself a civilian award w/o money and recommended in email to my supervisor and he called in on it. He told me that was his job and that I was not in the military any more and it is the supervisors job to do this but it was well written and if I leave he would considered it. Now you tell me, Now I don't go golfing with him or anything on the outside. I don't care what ARMY , NAVY or AIR FORCE reg. say but if your not in with the crew, your not getting award, so why bother with the reg. I will say it don't mater time on job because when I was wounded warrior working for DSS for Joint Forces the last thing I thought I was going to get when I was in the DSS conference room that day was the JFCM from the DOD, that was 1 year award. SO what is the system all about? Good luck.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Nov 10 at 2016 7:58 AM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 07:58:32 -0500

I would also say the awards system isn't fair. The approving authorities are people and therefore it is subjective. If you really care about your people and your career I highly recommend learning to write in the Army style at a very high level. In a masssive organization such as ours what separates two candidates will not be the quality of their work, but definitely will be the ability for their supervisor to properly write and take care of them. I have seen it time and again, and as a leader if you really care, you do what it takes to get the job done for those that have earned it. Big difference between telling someone you value their accomplishments and actually proving it on paper.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 10 at 2016 10:50 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:50:23 -0500

If reporting seniors are doing their jobs right, they should be parsing their commands into 3 groups for OER/Fitrep type stuff. That's the 1/3 you want to push through hard, 1/3rd you do not want to harm, and 1/3rd into the bottom group. So if you are a top 1/3rd, the time period matches with the grading and narrative on the NCOER etc. that the promotion board is looking for. You want to be picked up in the first crunch, second at the latest. Third crunch is danger close and they're looking more for reasons to toss and no longer at awards. Problem today is the fruit salad mania with EOT awards that boards now look at not having one as a red flag. So it's best that any award "define the time". It helps paint a clearer picture. On the Reserve side, we'd have people who'd expect an award for doing two weeks AD and whine about not getting one all while being mediocre doing their inactive stuff. Great fit for the bottom 1/3rd.

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 10 at 2016 12:58 PM

SFC George Smith — Thu, 10 Nov 2016 12:58:15 -0500

never saw that...
but i used to see folks getting lesser awards because they did not already have them ... ie
get and AAM instead of ArCom because they did not have AAM...
get an ArCom instead of MSM because they did not have ArCom...
get an MSM instead of LOM and so on...