Why shame your lower-enlisted soldiers on Facebook rather than teach or discipline them?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 23:01:33 -0400

I see it all the time on many Facebook groups. A dumb PVT does something stupid, maybe something trivial in nature. His/her NCO, instead of pulling them aside and disciplining them, they act like a creep from afar and post a picture on social media to embarrass them and show civilians out there negative aspects of our the Armed Forces.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Apr 24 at 2016 11:07 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 23:07:01 -0400

That is toxic leadership.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Apr 24 at 2016 11:17 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 23:17:32 -0400

Seems like a weak 'leader' if it's shaming.

However, if this is being used as an example of what is going on (removing PII), and after Soldier has been appropriately dealt with, I don't see an issue with it...others Soldiers may learn from this example.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2016 11:48 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 23:48:15 -0400

These are very poor NCO's. Is this happening with many NCO's?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2016 11:58 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 23:58:29 -0400

Sometimes my nephew who is also in the US Army Reserve will post something that does not belong on Facebook. I will message him friendly reminders about using a filter and that he should remove the post. Humiliating Soldiers violates Joint Ethics Regulation, so do not repost their inappropriate post with their name on it.
So first let the Soldier know why it is inappropriate then ask them what do they think they should do about the post. If there is no action by the Soldier then take action.

Response by CSM Felipe Mendez made Apr 25 at 2016 12:01 AM

CSM Felipe Mendez — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 00:01:38 -0400

There are no “lower-soldiers” only “junior enlisted soldiers”. Before there was “Facebook” soldiers’ actions were done in a close door or a private area in which there was a neutral environment for both the soldier and the NCO. I do not agree with “Shamming” anyone in public or closed door. I always believe in respect others regardless their rank or position as I want them to respect me. Such action identifies the NCO as weak, disrespectful, immature and a type of leader that leads by bulling/scaring his junior soldiers. Chain of command should be able to attack this situation easy and make sure it does not happen again. Leadership training classes is the best opportunity to attack such behavior. The proper way to deal with this situation is to call the NCO in and ask/tell him how he should off approach such situation without the Facebook posting.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Apr 25 at 2016 12:06 AM

SN Greg Wright — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 00:06:16 -0400

An NCO like that needs a blanket party.

Response by SPC John St.Germain,Sr. made Apr 25 at 2016 8:02 AM

SPC John St.Germain,Sr. — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:02:32 -0400

That's correct Matthew, teach then discipline.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Apr 25 at 2016 8:20 AM

LCpl Cody Collins — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:20:09 -0400

That is so immature, an NCO'S should be above that. Social media will ruin the military. Because it allows for people to say anything, without consequence.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2016 8:28 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:28:42 -0400

Is it any different than the "dumb PVT, NCO, Officer, etc" that posts, pic videos etc on Social media? Let's not limit it to one specific area. Social media is pretty much the "norm" anymore. Anyone with a camera phone and a laminated Copy of a Hurt Feelings Report pretty much can run wild on Social Media.
That's why I no longer have FB or nay other type of those sites. I've got better things to do.

Response by Cpl Jon Westbrook made Apr 25 at 2016 8:42 AM

Cpl Jon Westbrook — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:42:34 -0400

This is a double edged sword. On one hand you have the leadership angle. In no way should shaming or humiliating someone ever be considered an option when it comes to leadership. Pull the individual aside, be a professional, and take corrective action. On the other hand, Facebook is not controlled by the military and can be a fantastic place to exercise free speech if done in a way that doesn't reflect badly upon the service, or misrepresents the service in any way.

The other part of this is the humor side, making fun of daily life in the military(i.e. Terminal Lance) and sometimes you just have to laugh at the stuff young Marines or Soldiers do. The problem is that Facebook groups like that tend to get more cynical with time, and end up encouraging bad behavior or bringing bad examples into the spotlight, which looks bad on us as a professional military.

Service members are expected to conduct themselves according to the standards set forth by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and their respective commands. That includes Facebook. The real issue here is that because those pages are anonymous, there is no way to enforce those standards when it comes to pages like that unless you take it to court(i.e. the F'n Wook fiasco a few years back)

Bottom line is, educate your soldiers and don't reward bad behavior with Facebook likes.

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made Apr 25 at 2016 9:31 AM

SSgt Dan Montague — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:31:03 -0400

Seems like multi media is becoming the downfall of leadership in the military. Maybe leadership needs to give more hands on classes on disciplining jr troops.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2016 9:37 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:37:57 -0400

It's what I commonly refer to as, "Being an asshole," and many people are guilty of it. I wouldn't do that to anybody, least of all a New Guy who might not have it figured out yet. I find that just about every NCO who does that stuff publicly is the same NCO the officers secretly can't stand. I'm sure the same can be said for us junior officers, with senior officers who secretly hate us. Being an ass is being an ass, regardless of rank, and there's no place for it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2016 9:42 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:42:46 -0400

I try not to post too much stuff on FB, rather it be military related or personal. People can misconstrue what your intended message or post was at anytime. People's minds are wired different than your. So, I rarely post anything on FB unless it is telling someone happy birthday or something similar to that. As far as calling my Soldier or anyone else out on FB....no way!!! I wouldn't want it done to me, so I won't do it to anybody else.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Apr 25 at 2016 10:52 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:52:10 -0400

Why are they friends with their subordinates on facebook is my question. Leadership lines must exist.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2016 1:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:24:09 -0400

It's Unprofessional. The NCOIC should pull the soldier and speech to them personally! Military conduct is a learning proccess for new soldiers!

Response by SrA Lauren Kresse made Apr 25 at 2016 1:30 PM

SrA Lauren Kresse — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:30:07 -0400

Unless social media is helping promote the good in your job, people really need to stay off social media. Why would anyone in the military think it's okay to get on social media and slam another person?? It's extremely ignorant and childish, not to mention it makes the military look stupid!

Response by SPC Rory J. Mattheisen made Apr 25 at 2016 2:19 PM

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:19:41 -0400

Every time a discussion like this comes up I am glad I am out, the complete lack of professionalism in the military as a whole is exactly where I estimated it would be when the BDU's and Shined boots left. From the top to the bottom the discipline has left, SEALS bragging about their kills, NCO's & O's bashing lower enlisted and senior ranking leaders. Everyone thinks they have an opinion and rights...

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Apr 25 at 2016 6:26 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:26:52 -0400

I'm stuck on the part where I'd be policing my Soldiers FB page. I know there are some NCO's who are "friends" with their Solders and I believe online like that creates a rather serious leadership issue. I would not be friends with them online, but I would respect and even chill with them to a point in real life. If one of mine posted something and it came to my attention, I'd mention it to him to remove it, and if that isn't done, then we move forward with other things. With the way some pages are locked down, the only way to know if something is posted is if one of his friends tells you. Praise in public, Punishment in Private.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Apr 26 at 2016 12:49 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 00:49:53 -0400

Honestly, I never understood that. I'll admit I've vented my frustrations on Facebook sometimes, but I've never used names, pictures, or even situations. My Mom doesn't even know what I do for a living because I try to be very OPSEC minded. The less anyone knows, the better, no matter how trivial.

In my time as a Junior Marine, I had good NCOs and bad ones. I always tried to emulate the best qualities of my favorite NCOs so when I picked up and had my own troops I could pass down those same leadership qualities to the next generation of NCOs.

Response by SCPO Lee Pradia made Apr 26 at 2016 9:32 AM

SCPO Lee Pradia — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:32:18 -0400

Should a leader post anything on FB to shame a junior, the leadership should step,in to correct it accordingly. I see lots of posts on FB from RP, IMO, I don't think we need to include the FB audience in our professional discussions where we mentor and develop, not mock and humiliate.

Response by MSgt Jeff Greene made Apr 26 at 2016 10:06 AM

MSgt Jeff Greene — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:06:17 -0400

That is the worst type of NCO. Their job is to teach, mentor and prepare the lower ranking soldier/airmen/seamen to take their place. All they are teaching is that this NCO is not to be respected. Not only should this be a violation of privacy, but the UCMJ should have something in it to cover this. The person doing the posting should be disciplined. I am very old school (retired in 1991) and this type of NCO wouldn't last long.

Response by PO1 Dave Porter made Apr 26 at 2016 10:15 AM

PO1 Dave Porter — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:15:15 -0400

That is a failure of leadership and a dis-service to the men/women in uniform who needs to be taught to do things correctly. Any NCO who does this should be disciplined. My 2 cents

Response by SP5 John Pratt made Apr 26 at 2016 10:16 AM

SP5 John Pratt — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:16:07 -0400

I don't know how it is done now since I ETS'd in 1977, but back when I was in the was a way of doing things and that was "Praise in public, Reprimand in private!"

Response by PO2 Christina Hutson made Apr 26 at 2016 10:17 AM

PO2 Christina Hutson — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:17:27 -0400

If that's the case than they were not shown how to properly take care of the situation and than they have a bigger problem in broadcasting it to the world than showing the individual the right way to take the problem in hand and make them want to do better than try to make them look stupid or something it's just an yoyo effect how they would like to deal with the sitsuation.

Response by SGT Shawn Schweinberg made Apr 26 at 2016 11:36 AM

SGT Shawn Schweinberg — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:36:14 -0400

You are correct. Dealing with soldiers your trying to mentor does not include Facebook or anything of that nature. To do so is a sign of a weak leader. Soldiers make mistakes and we deal with those mistakes in a professional level.

Response by SGT Pete Masullo made Apr 26 at 2016 12:30 PM

SGT Pete Masullo — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:30:14 -0400

I don't think shaming someone on social media should be looked at as the "wrong way". That activity is plain wrong and discredits the individual and the organization. If an NCO sees an activity, he can choose to act or not act. Publicizing behavior that needs correcting is just plain bad behavior itself.

Response by SFC Jimmy Hernandez-Benitez made Apr 26 at 2016 1:01 PM

SFC Jimmy Hernandez-Benitez — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:01:34 -0400

Well, like they keep saying "Is the new Army". But I said, screw that, the Army is the Army since 1776. Is that we have a low standard military. They new to go to the Army standard. I remember the one on one behind the building counseling. Just look how they wear the uniform, weight standards, I blame the Change of command for what is happening. Even that I am retired I will stop and correct any service-member that doing something wrong in my present. Like had a saying, "If you see something wrong and you don't said or do anything you just created a new policy."

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Apr 26 at 2016 1:43 PM

SSG Richard Reilly — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:43:05 -0400

Every time someone says 'Facebook' in this thread a hipster grows his wings.

Response by GySgt Steven Robeson made Apr 26 at 2016 1:51 PM

GySgt Steven Robeson — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:51:37 -0400

NOT ONE SINGLE WORD about disciplinary issues should EVER be discussed outside of the unit environment, regardless if it's FB, Twitter, or a post-it note on the unit bulletin board. Rule #1 of leadership...You praise in public, and you correct in private. That PFC or Lance Corporal you're having issues with will find it far easier to trust you if you pull him/her aside and address the issue out of earshot of the rest of the troops. If they continue to act-a-fool after that, then drop an Article 15 on them. You tried. Of course, if the problem has become pervasive, there's always a Midnight Muster. Not politically correct, but effective. ON THE OTHER HAND: Go ahead and use that social media if a Warrior in your unit's been exemplary. Nothing says "happy camper" more than someone who just had their brass polished publically. I received two different awards for lifesaving in my career, and I caught myself walking a bit taller after the CG shook my hand.

Response by TSgt Matthew Greenwood made Apr 26 at 2016 2:44 PM

TSgt Matthew Greenwood — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:44:22 -0400

I wish I could say this surprises me but it really doesn't. I can say that if ANY of the Supervisors that worked for me did something like this, he would not be a Supervisor much longer. Military business has no place on social media in any way shape or form especially punishment of any format. The fact that the Supervisor would do this shows me his maturity level is not where it should be for an NCO. Social Media has taken over our lives and we are suffering for it. I actually at one point had to make a policy that you either left your cell phone at home or in your car because people were on it constantly and it caused many problems as well as safety concerns.

Response by SCPO Larry Knight Sr. made Apr 26 at 2016 2:48 PM

SCPO Larry Knight Sr. — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:48:07 -0400

During my career we had a phrase called "Loose Lips Sink Ships", and we thought our subordinates as well as the senior community to keep things in house and resolve all issues through training and counseling.
I do see now after years of retirement that people tend to do too much on social media, and if a senior enlisted uses this for inappropriate reasons. Then the command should look into removing the NCO responsible and inputting a service record entry to ensure they don't promote in the future ultimately ending their career!
Facebook etc; isn't the way to teach or discipline, pull your head from the obvious position if this is how you perceive to lead your subordinates!!!!!

Response by PO1 Cliff Heath made Apr 26 at 2016 3:16 PM

PO1 Cliff Heath — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:16:38 -0400

THERE IS NO REASON FOR THIS WHAT-SO-EVER TOTALLY UNSAT

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2016 3:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:39:17 -0400

Because these leaders are weak.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Apr 26 at 2016 4:08 PM

SFC David Pope, MBA — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 16:08:56 -0400

If an NCO or officer is posting negative information on Facebook about a subordinate and disclosing who that subordinate is either by name or other means, that is wrong! They also should be charged with conduct unbecoming. That is NOT how real leaders do their jobs!

Response by CMSgt Steve Pennington made Apr 26 at 2016 5:24 PM

CMSgt Steve Pennington — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 17:24:00 -0400

I think it is a disgrace for ANY NCO to use ANY social media to correct the behavior, conduct or performance of ANY subordinate. It shows lack of character and, frankly, shows a lack of guts. If you don't have the courage of your own convictions as an NCO you should not have the rank. I was always taught that you praise in public and correct in private. Corrective measures need to be adequate, appropriate and timely, but not blasted out in social media.

Response by PO2 David Allender made Apr 26 at 2016 6:57 PM

PO2 David Allender — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 18:57:01 -0400

Can't be much of a leader if an NCO would stop so low as put his/her opinion of somebody on face book. He/she needs to be talked to by the leading NCO quickly to stop any more stupid stuff like that. Something for the NCO to think about, How would he/she feel is the role was reversed.

Response by SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA made Apr 26 at 2016 7:20 PM

SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:20:13 -0400

Military personnel need to keep any and all military issues off social media, end of story. That said, a senior enlisted should be even more cautious about running their jibs on line especially about those in their charge and care. Someone who does otherwise, should be repremanded themselves, as they have no leadership skills, can't have any loyalty and are not fit to be in charge of others.

Response by TSgt Rochelle Heflin made Apr 27 at 2016 12:31 AM

TSgt Rochelle Heflin — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 00:31:26 -0400

I believe this whether it's in the military or civilian, that's no way to handle the situation. If it's the first instance that they messed up on something, talk to them ,teach them. If they did the same thing twice (after you had already spoke with them), then discipline them, but don't make it public. It doesn't sound like they're a very good NCO.

Response by CPO Norman Mauldin made Apr 27 at 2016 11:20 AM

CPO Norman Mauldin — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:20:30 -0400

Never use social media as a disciplinary tool, it could open you up to libel or slander. Document the counseling session if required or just get in their a55 if it will do the trick. However, remember praise in public and reprimand in private.

Response by TSgt James Carson made Apr 27 at 2016 3:58 PM

TSgt James Carson — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 15:58:37 -0400

Be a mentor, not just a supervisor. Some people aren't cut out to be in the service of their country. Give them credit for stepping forwards at least. Help them find their path and be there for them as much as possible. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. REMEMBR those very wise words.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2016 7:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 19:19:56 -0400

If I have something to say to my Soldiers, I will discuss it with them face to face or over the phone if it needs to be handled right away. FB and other forms of social media is meant to be a way to let off steam, hang out with family, and to relax in a general sense. I rarely post anything on my Soldiers feed, and if I do, I keep it light hearted and positive.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2016 9:59 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:59:57 -0400

I'm pretty sure that is something that the leadership in question doing is an offense and the Soldier posting it could be in trouble. Each state has different laws but a civil lawsuit may assist in taking the photos down and in a way there could be legal recourse against the soldier if interpreted as bullying which is now punishable under UCMJ (AR 600-20).

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made May 4 at 2016 11:13 PM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Wed, 04 May 2016 23:13:54 -0400

Shows a lack of leadership not to mention intelligence.

Response by SGT Johnny Owens made May 6 at 2016 9:51 PM

SGT Johnny Owens — Fri, 06 May 2016 21:51:36 -0400

Don't.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Aug 5 at 2019 2:25 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 02:25:12 -0400

Sigh...it'll ob V never happen now, of course, though I do wish there's be a way to innocent that thing...too many are too accustomed to having it, my wife uses it, I avoid it so far as feasible...I've said this befire, a quite I'd read in a novel...human technology changes human morality...I figured it just seemed germane here...

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Aug 5 at 2019 2:30 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 02:30:28 -0400

Sorry, typo, I'd obv meant uninvent that thing...the only one I even remotely go near at all, aside from talking here, is LinkedIn, that one I find is run on a quite serious level, far more to my personal taste...I obv perceive why the one mentioned here is used in the fashion described, I just don't think the human race, as I'd often typical, ever expected that thing to be used in such a fashion...such technical capabikity , I'd observed, quite often seems to take on rather a life of its own, in such fashions, due to human capacity for inventiveness, rather akin to gas expanding to fill an available vacuum...I suppose it has its uses, as my wife constantly reminds me, I suppose, however, I'd just as soon avoid it altogether, honest, to me, it just somehow seems to create considerably more problems than it solves, ya know?

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Aug 5 at 2019 2:31 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 02:31:20 -0400

Sorry, typo, often typically observed, that's what I'd meant, of course....

Response by SFC Gloria Kotska made Oct 11 at 2019 1:07 PM

SFC Gloria Kotska — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 13:07:45 -0400

that's the best example of what a good leader should NOT DO!