Why would leaders hold soldiers around the workplace after the day's work is complete and there is nothing else to be done?

2017-06-25T10:50:53-04:00

Soldiers will have everything done before 1500 but NCO's will make them stay longer than neccessary to sit around and play on their phones or twiddle their fingers. I understand you can be proactive and get other things done but if the task that needed to be accomplished for that certain day is done, why hold soldiers longer? Putting a task out at 1700 drains morale. We volunteered, yes. But still

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 25 at 2017 11:25 AM

2017-06-25T11:25:35-04:00

You're a sergeant. You are the guy who should know the answer, and if you don't then ask the next NCO in you chain until you find the answer.

My guess is that there is some reason for keeping the soldiers readily available. It may not be apparent to the people doing the sitting, but there's a senior NCO or Officer who knows the reason. That's not to say it's a good reason. You may get something like, "three months ago, we let everybody off duty at 1500 because all the work was done. At 1625 the Installation Commander dropped by and the only person in the building was the CO. The CO was embarrassed, so he decided we would have personnel available for duty until the official close of duty time." An even worse, but equally probable answer, "in the 69th Brigade, we've always done it this way." Don't doubt that stuff like this happens.

Response by A1C Mathew Wood made Jun 25 at 2017 5:59 PM

2017-06-25T17:59:05-04:00

My guess
So they don't get the expectation of leaving early.
So they don't cut corners to get out early.
Less griping on days they have to stay late.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 25 at 2017 11:56 PM

2017-06-25T23:56:11-04:00

and here I though the military was a 365x24 job

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 26 at 2017 8:32 AM

2017-06-26T08:32:55-04:00

"Soldiers will have everything done before 1500"
1st have you read the company training calender? When does it say the end of the normal duty day is? Id bet its not 1500, so SERGEANT, why are YOU not conducting training , tasks, counseling and being part of the solution that produces the worlds best trained military?
2nd, there is nothing wrong with the company leadership (the LOWEST level that would have the authority to dismiss the unit) dismissing the unit before the end of the training day if THEY feel the unit and their subordinate leaders have accomplished all they can that day.. It should be an occasional attaboy for the days the tasks took longer then the published training day.

You will noticed I said ALL THEY CAN, not some finite list of " everything done" which is a failed leadership thinking.

This is not a list of weekend chores your mom gave you to do before you can go the the movies.
You have directed tasks and implied tasks.. and an overall duty to train your subordinates to do their jobs, specific and implied to the best of their ability as well as do your job in your absence... Is your team THAT well trained Sargent?> Would an OC at NTC say your team THAT well trained? Would your 1SG or CSM say your team THAT well trained? Are your subordinates counseled this month? Have you addressed their specific shortcomings and worked with them to overcome them? Have you considered what specific tasks might be assigned in the next day,week and set your unit up for success? Have you worked on your assigned company additional duties this week?
If not all of that and more, your day is not done until you have.. OR the end of the published duty day has arrived and your commander has released you for the day.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 8:50 AM

2017-06-26T08:50:58-04:00

Are we talking Active or Reserve, because I had a huge problem with this in the reserves. Finish everything on the training schedule then sit around and do nothing while the CO and 1st SGT have meetings about what ever and we sit there and wait for hours. To top that off if you were an NCO you came in 2 hours earlier and stayed 2 hours later yet we did nothing. Now I don't mind staying if that is what it takes to get the job done, been there done that in other units, but this one unit I was in had to be the worse at doing nothing but making you sit around until 6:00 or 7:00 pm to go home.

Response by SGT Chris Stephens made Jun 26 at 2017 9:13 AM

2017-06-26T09:13:08-04:00

Had that happen in one of my reserve units all of the time. We would always get told in morning formation that we had a lot on the training schedule and it was up to us what time we got to get out. No matter how many times we completed all tasks to standard and got everything cleaned up, inevitably we'd be sitting around doing nothing waiting on senior leadership to allow us to go. There were multiple times we'd be sitting there and it would be past the time to go, according to the training schedule, just waiting to have final formation. I remember once, we didn't get out because the CO was meeting with an E-6, who was transitioning to be an officer in the Coast Guard. Meeting started after we were supposed to leave (mind you with all tasks completed), and we had to wait for that 90-minute long meeting to get over, just so we could do a goodbye to the E-6 and have cake.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 11:00 AM

2017-06-26T11:00:38-04:00

Since I went from Active Duty into the Reserves, I can provide my view point from a few different units I've been a part of. In my Reserves unit, we do often have to hang around a bit while the senior NCOs and leadership have a few final meetings to make sure everything is done and all the information is put out. It is up to us to be gainfully employed while this occurs but even we'll be waiting around to be dismissed.

When I was a junior enlisted, my NCOs would try to look after us. They would release a few of us if nothing was going on and rotate who was let go early while a couple of us stayed behind doing the usual daily tidying up, or last minute missions that crop up. I had NCOs that went to our OICs to see if we could be released.

When I redeployed, our unit had a lot of soldiers who sat around and had no mission while we were waiting to be released from our unit to go to our next unit, which took several months. Many times, the orders were handed down as to be somewhere else but keep our phones on in case of a recall formation, because an S6 with 30 soldiers sitting around and 4 computers to use looked worse than a skeleton crew, and us using the library or training center computers for some gainful use of time (SSDs, etc).

When I became one of the lead NCOs at my last active duty unit, we were almost always release by section except Fridays when we needed to check with 1SG (for safety brief). So as long as my OIC didn't need the soldiers, I'd check with him/her and release all but whoever I needed. They understood that there would be other times I'd need them to work late, so letting them go early was my "don't complain when I ask you to stay late" pass. There were times we had training that needed to be accomplished as well, but it is a good NCO that will know what the training schedule has on it, and spread it out across the soldiers' time so they aren't bored or over worked. They knew if I let them all go and the trash wasn't taken out, or the floors swept, that it'd be the NCOs finishing up the work so they knew to pitch in before going. It makes for a better working relationship with the troops when they know the NCO is trying to take care of them and not waste their time. There have been times when 1SG wants bodies sent over to HQ for area beautification and my platoon sergeant (E7) and I would go instead of sending the junior enlisted because we had them actively engaged in things meant to better their career or improve their job performance and we didn't want that interrupted.

I learned from good NCOs to take care of my soldiers because they took care of me. If you see a problem, work with other NCOs towards solutions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 1:41 PM

2017-06-26T13:41:54-04:00

Why aren't you doing hip pocket training if your soldiers are just "sitting around twiddling their thumbs? That's the perfect time to go over common tasks training. In my last unit we did a lot of hurry up and wait in the MICO. So we had the junior NCOs have ready to go some training in those situations because they complained about sitting around too much and just "wanted to go home."

This link has manuals for what appears to be STP for all MOSs. Soldiers Manual and Training Guide for plenty of MOSs. STP 21-1-SMCT is the Soldiers Manual for Level 1 Tasks. STP 21-24-SMCT for Levels 2, 3, 4. http://www.apd.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/STP.aspx

You have to copy and paste it. I don't know why it won't work from here.

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Response by SCPO Ysmael Ramos made Jun 26 at 2017 2:02 PM

2017-06-26T14:02:34-04:00

It doesn't surprise me. There was a saying in the Navy. Why chip at bulkheads and there is no paint to chip. In other words make work when there is nothing to do. Some leaders hold that to control their subordinates regardless. There is a solution to this by time management but like I said there are degrees of leadership.