Will a field grade Article 15 and demotion (no GOMAR) doom an NCO for upcoming QMP or promotion boards?

2016-06-15T11:40:00-04:00

Response by SFC David McMahon made Jun 15 at 2016 11:43 AM

2016-06-15T11:43:17-04:00

Screwed

Plan ahead and be ready to be told to "go home" quickly

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 11:43 AM

2016-06-15T11:43:42-04:00

SFC received a FG Article 15 and reduced to SGT whilst down range? Did I understand that right? If I did, then this SFC should have their bags pre-packed and ready to fly home at a moments notice because their time in the Army is nigh.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 11:43 AM

2016-06-15T11:43:51-04:00

With ANY derogatory information in your file, any QMP Board WILL put your name on the "Cut" list.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 11:44 AM

2016-06-15T11:44:11-04:00

It's a huge strike, but there are a lot of factors to take into consideration. How long ago was it, what the actual situation was, and how has he made up for it; how above and beyond in the quantifiable sense has he conducted himself to distinguish himself from his peers.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 12:07 PM

2016-06-15T12:07:15-04:00

When I was facing elimination I took my files to many people. First thing everyone did was look at my photo. One general commented that he doid not have an answer. My uniform was proper. He stated he had seen people not selected because the oak leaf clusters on the ribbons were turned the wrong way.

Filed Grade article 15?

No chance of a positive result.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 12:24 PM

2016-06-15T12:24:40-04:00

It very much can. I just had a buddy get QMP'd for a bad NCOER.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 1:07 PM

2016-06-15T13:07:19-04:00

At this point and time in our military it could.

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Jun 15 at 2016 1:37 PM

2016-06-15T13:37:31-04:00

I think that is a resounding "YES" for short term promotions to less than SFC. It might bolster a QMP to move you down the road. Depends on how you handle it too. Semper Fi.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 2:24 PM

2016-06-15T14:24:09-04:00

If it was a company or summarized I would say it'll be alright and wait and see. But since its a field grade, you're probably at the top of list. Because not knowing the board's criteria, I would assume they would look at major offenses (field grade Art 15, relief for cause NCOERs, letter of concerns, etc.) first

Response by SFC Thomas Cook made Jun 15 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-06-15T14:57:32-04:00

It depends on your situation. You might get a notice to be looked at for QMP but that does not mean your career is over. Have a backup plan just incase. They look at the total Soldier's file not just the bad paper. If you are just doing your "normal" job then it might not bode well for you. If you have special assignments i.e. SHARP, MRT, EO and college degrees not just college it can really help strengthen your file but just going to work and coming home they might say they don't need you to continue to serve. Hope that helps and good luck.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 4:07 PM

2016-06-15T16:07:38-04:00

i would say depending on the offense it could

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Jun 15 at 2016 4:48 PM

2016-06-15T16:48:06-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member From my experience (which I admit is dated), I think the chances are very likely (above 95%) that a person will not survive a Field Grade Art 15 (or even a Company Grade Art 15) in his/her file during a QMP Board review. I could provide you with several examples I have personally witnessed and, in several, tried my best to get turned-around, but that would serve no real purpose. My recommendation is to plan for the worst and hope for the best, but I think it is highly unlikely a person would survive a QMP with bad paper in his/her file, when they are being compared to thousands with no bad paper and they have to identify discriminators for choosing those who will be identified for discharge.

Response by SPC Paul Jennings, J.D. made Jun 15 at 2016 5:19 PM

2016-06-15T17:19:12-04:00

A field grade, or any Article 15 with a finding of guilt, is more detrimental than a GOMAR in theory. The reason for this is that a GOMAR is non-punitive and expresses the held opinion of the issuing authority. An Article 15 on the other hand represents a punitive action where guilt is assessed beyond a reasonable doubt. Accordingly, if you feel the same or similar offense would likely doom a career if mentioned in a GOMAR, than it is essentially guaranteed with an Article 15. The only upside, if you could call it that, is that procedural safeguards are a bit more stringent and an appeal to the BCMR could possibly remove the Article 15 paperwork from your file. However, this assumes that a substantial error is present, unlike with a GOMAR where you can appeal simply based on the theory that the GOMAR has served its intended purpose.

Response by LCDR Jim Bowman made Jun 15 at 2016 6:21 PM

2016-06-15T18:21:02-04:00

I'm sorry to say, but it would in my book. We don't always have access to the finer details of what happened, so a lot is based on what's on paper! In the case of an Article 15, something went really wrong!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 6:25 PM

2016-06-15T18:25:17-04:00

Absolutely 100%.

Response by TSgt Kerry Hardy made Jun 15 at 2016 6:47 PM

2016-06-15T18:47:29-04:00

If all you did was adultery then you should never had an Article 15. Article 134 should be removed from UCMJ! That is a morale issue and not a criminal offense. Military and Government have no right to impose their will into anyone's bedroom. As a former civilian police officer I know that adultery is on the books as an offense but I asked many members of the legal community and there had been only one case in over 50 years. The case was brought because person wanting case was a police officer, he forced DA to bring charges ( he lost). It is a waste of time and money if that is only charge. That is just an add on charge to ad more possible jail time and/or to make sure person in discharged. Far more pressing Articles that need to be addressed. And no I never did!

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Jun 15 at 2016 10:02 PM

2016-06-15T22:02:18-04:00

It could come down to M.O.S. If you are in a shortage career field you could be golden, otherwise prepare to embrace the civilian life.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2016 1:11 AM

2016-06-16T01:11:20-04:00

Honestly I got denied for continued service for getting dropped from ALC but didn't receive a marginal 1059. Then went back and passed 3 months later prior to being notified of selection for QMP. I would start the ACAP process now. Good luck though man.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2016 6:22 AM

2016-06-16T06:22:15-04:00

Unfortunately, I would say that it is likely. I have been the staff duty NCO before when a highly upset Staff Sergeant came through to sign out on terminal leave who had been QMP'd. I was the S2 NCOIC for my Bn and when I checked up on the derogatory reports we had to file, sure enough there he was and had received a field grade. Good luck.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2016 8:23 AM

2016-06-16T08:23:34-04:00

It depends, was the ART15 directed to be filed in your personnel file? Restricted or unrestricted? The reduction will be caught by any QMP board. It should not be reflected on your NCOER. New RCP dates for Sergeants, 14 years AFS.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Jun 16 at 2016 10:31 AM

2016-06-16T10:31:06-04:00

Where was the Article 15 filed? Performance or restricted fiche.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2016 11:00 PM

2016-06-16T23:00:50-04:00

I made it through it depends on the "overall Soldier" but then again I'm pretty awesome

Response by CPT John Arnold made Jun 17 at 2016 4:20 PM

2016-06-17T16:20:09-04:00

Regardless of the circumstances around the Field Grade Article 15, you need to plan on a career outside the US Army, you may survive this board but you will never make E7 with that in your personnel record or make it to 20 years for a retirement. You need to start now working on a career change. Best of luck, we all make mistakes you can recover but it won't in uniform I would wager.

Response by CPO james A. Redd Jr made Jun 17 at 2016 5:22 PM

2016-06-17T17:22:31-04:00

of course the Navy is different than the Army and the 70s are different then nowadays. But I got Capt's Mast when I was first in but after I transferred to the unit I originally wanted I was Meritoriously promoted from E-5 to E6 and made Chief on my first board. I would ask for a transfer, if possible, and go on from there.

Response by 1SG Carlos E Bonet made Jun 17 at 2016 9:07 PM

2016-06-17T21:07:25-04:00

I think so, depending on the reason for the article 15, how many years the Joe has in, his mos, (clearance) the qmp the rcp, and his chain of command. So yes, he or she should planned ahead and become a pfc.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2016 1:12 AM

2016-06-18T01:12:30-04:00

What rank, mos, years in service are we talking about?

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 19 at 2016 7:12 PM

2016-06-19T19:12:23-04:00

My suggestion if you want to do 20 or better, look at a transition to AGR in the Guard or reserve, or plan on a different career.

Response by CSM James Winslow made Jun 21 at 2016 6:35 AM

2016-06-21T06:35:25-04:00

It really depends on the Soldier's overall character of service and the type of offense. In today's Army it is still possible to overcome a setback like this, although it is getting harder and harder. A Soldier will not normally go through a QMP until they have hit an RCP, or haven't been promoted in their MOS in awhile. QMP boards are convened mostly to "weed out" overstrength (at Grade) MOS's. You can still retire as a Staff Sergeant in the Army.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 9:37 AM

2016-06-21T09:37:35-04:00

Yes. If in OMPF.

Response by SSG Timothy Miller made Jun 21 at 2016 10:57 AM

2016-06-21T10:57:30-04:00

Back when I was in the service a Company grade Art 15 could be separated and not considered as long as certain conditions were met. However, we live in a different world today. New leadership is on the horizon (hopefully). Otherwise, it will solely depend on the soliders performance, what rank he or she was when it was handed down. Lower ranking soliders should be given a freeby, because young people sometimes do a doumb thing. So, it depends on a lot of things. If your E6, I would hang it up, move on, get college degree and live and learn.

Response by SGT Bruce Miller made Jun 21 at 2016 11:12 AM

2016-06-21T11:12:42-04:00

I agree SCREWED

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Jun 21 at 2016 11:42 AM

2016-06-21T11:42:40-04:00

More than likely it will. Start planning for separation. Get your health records together and see a VA rep and see what you may be able to get compensation for. Thing are pretty liberal w/ a pre-discharge claim. Don't wait start planning for separation now.

Response by SGM Karina.Flipz Lee made Jun 21 at 2016 11:44 AM

2016-06-21T11:44:28-04:00

Todays miltary, you need to have a plan. You are probably done.

Response by SGM Karina.Flipz Lee made Jun 21 at 2016 11:49 AM

2016-06-21T11:49:18-04:00

Agree

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Jun 21 at 2016 12:08 PM

2016-06-21T12:08:03-04:00

Any incident of misconduct will affect not just an upcoming QMP or promotion, but future ones too.

Response by SSG Ken Gilder made Jun 21 at 2016 12:22 PM

2016-06-21T12:22:26-04:00

Well, it certainly won't do his career any good.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 2:51 PM

2016-06-21T14:51:58-04:00

sadly YES I got a GOMAR and any NCOER with a NO in the 'Army Values" block is guaranteed to get you QMP. there is no guarantee you wont beat the board, but you WILL be eligible. I got a gomar over 2 years ago....was eligible for QMP, beat the QMP board, and I STILL have a 9W "ineligible to reenlist" code on my ERB. sadly BDE will not sign a waiver to let me reenlist, so my military career ends in 2 years.... = (

Response by SGT Andrew Register made Jun 21 at 2016 5:42 PM

2016-06-21T17:42:08-04:00

Unfortunately, yes. With the current fiscal uncertainty and the drawdown, there would be little to no chance of getting through that QMP board successfully.
Start getting things laid out for civilian life. It comes hard and fast. And without proper preparation you will be at a serious disadvantage.
In the meantime, make sure you get every ache and pain documented by going to sick call. It only takes a note being put in saying that you complained of the pain. That way when you are older you will be able to get that taken care of for free by the VA, along with making it much easier to file a claim if need be.

Good luck!

Response by CSM Halford Dudley made Jun 21 at 2016 6:26 PM

2016-06-21T18:26:56-04:00

Yes and it probably should. There is a chance to redeem, but the NCO has to work very hard to erase the stain of the disciplinary action.

Response by MCPO Kurt Stauff made Jun 22 at 2016 12:21 AM

2016-06-22T00:21:34-04:00

In the Navy, promotion for three years would be problematical. I have sat on E7, E8, and E9 promotion boards, and the magic number was three, unless someone turned themselves around so phenomenally as to totally wow their seniors, and it was strongly documented in their records, they were toast. If you are going to mess up in the military, do it when you are junior.

Response by SGT Scott Moreland made Jun 22 at 2016 4:53 AM

2016-06-22T04:53:44-04:00

I would advise this of anyone who had a FG or any bad record in general with an upcoming QMP; check your civilian job options and create a resume. It can be challenged and overcome but career progression will be limited to E6.

Response by SFC Mamerto Perez made Jun 22 at 2016 12:09 PM

2016-06-22T12:09:21-04:00

They shouldn't based on an Article 15, some times an soldier made a mistake and later on sees it was wrong and he becomes a better soldier from it.

Response by SFC Mamerto Perez made Jun 23 at 2016 9:56 AM

2016-06-23T09:56:59-04:00

An Article 15 should not hurt anybody career in the Military especially if it was a offense. It might him/her a better soldier by learning by the mistake they made.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2019 3:46 AM

2019-01-09T03:46:46-05:00

So....how did it go? In a similar situation.