Will adding new Senior NCO Ranks (E10 & E11) improve the NCO Corps?

2017-08-01T10:36:54-04:00

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/14/army-mulls-creating-new-pay-grades-for-senior-ncos.html

SMA Dailey discusses the pros of having E10 & E11 ranks for nominative CSMs duty positions that are aligned with specific GO level positions. My thoughts are that the Senior Officer rank is where the authoritative power lies and with the general authority power as a the Senior NCO working for that GO, you should have no issues working with peered (by rank only, not position) Senior Noncomms. I see no true value added other than a DD214 and very specialized blue ID card.

Army Mulls Creating New Pay Grades for Senior NCOs

The U.S. Army’s top enlisted leader is trying to build momentum for an effort to create two new pay grades – E-10 and E-11.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 10:45 AM

2017-08-01T10:45:14-04:00

The only other thing I can see as a PRO is these proposed ranks may open up the bottleneck that occurs at the lower levels.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made Aug 1 at 2017 10:48 AM

2017-08-01T10:48:48-04:00

NO! Services have to learn how to properly utilize a SrNCO instead of trying to create new Uber-SrNCOs. "We're going to admin ourselves into a higher state of readiness and professionalism". Stupid

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 10:49 AM

2017-08-01T10:49:39-04:00

MSG, I haven’t reached that far but I feel that the rank structure that the Army does have right now is ideal for what it is we do. I personally believe that adding more E10(which is already a rank) and E11 will further complicate the NCO corps. There are a lot of moving parts as it is and to add more people in charge of those moving parts will probably cause conflict as everyone will probably have their agreements and disagreements going on. I do have a question though, what job needs an E10 or E11. The SMA is an advisor to the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, would he now be an assistant advisor as an E10 and Advisor at E11? Now how many E10’s would be running around. This is an interesting question though and I am looking forward to reading everyone else’s thoughts on the matter!

Response by 1SG Russell S. made Aug 1 at 2017 10:52 AM

2017-08-01T10:52:30-04:00

No. I feel we are too bloated with "commands" now. Trim some of the upper fat and perhaps at the operational level we might have full strength units with simplified CoC.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 11:18 AM

2017-08-01T11:18:28-04:00

We need to focus on empowering SFC and SSG ranks by cutting the fat out of their responsibilities and developing a mentorship program. When I was a SGT, many a SFC told me that they couldn't professionally develop their NCOs because they had no time and too much to do.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 11:20 AM

2017-08-01T11:20:30-04:00

Nope.

Response by SGT David T. made Aug 1 at 2017 1:01 PM

2017-08-01T13:01:17-04:00

As it stands now, there are too many ranks. I actually hold the opposite opinion that the number of ranks should be reduced and the organizations realigned around that. From a cost perspective, less ranks is less money spent on maintaining 13 different enlisted rank insignia (army).

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 1:46 PM

2017-08-01T13:46:05-04:00

I don't know much or care much about how CSM's are perceived at the GO level, they are all excellent individuals to make it to that level (same can't be said about the officer corps) I do know that they are significantly undervalued financially and I'll support additional grades for Senior NCO's on that basis alone. A CSM civilian equivalent would be 2-3 time more pay plus the fact that they are retirement eligible and working for half pay anyway. It's a great credit to their commitment to their country and perhaps something we should consider when debating on increasing a CSM's financial compensation. I make more a month than a CSM with 29 years in service, next month as an 04 I'll make more than a CSM with 39 years in service. So, just saying that Sr. NCO's get screwed.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 2:48 PM

2017-08-01T14:48:37-04:00

I think it's pointless. All it will do is serve to pay the top earners in the enlisted field more money. Our Commanding General already has a CMS and no enlisted person doubts his power or authority, not even the other E-9s.

I also agree with what many have said here about mentorship. It simply isn't done well anymore, or for that matter, I'm not sure it has been in my 24 years in the army. Developmental counseling isn't completed like it is supposed to, and much of the time it is only pulled out when someone is in trouble.
Sure there are mentorship programs online, but most of these kids don't even know what it is called, let alone how to use it. It's my opinion that we have become a flabby, undertrained and under motivated force. Or, I might just be an old codger who used to walk up hill both ways to school in the snow and ice.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Aug 1 at 2017 2:57 PM

2017-08-01T14:57:42-04:00

So he is proposing something that may effect his own pay. Don't get me wrong I don't think enlist pay comes anywhere close to Officer pay. But duty position payment or additional pay would make more sense. a CSM might not be a CSM for his entire career as an E9. So say Leadership pay for 1SGs, CSM, and other leadership type positions. Talking about E--whatever seems more like a pay thing than acknowledgement of their duties and position.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 2:58 PM

2017-08-01T14:58:19-04:00

No.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Aug 1 at 2017 4:48 PM

2017-08-01T16:48:55-04:00

The Army had a Corporal Colonel in M*A*S*H on one episode. Didn't work out well. Why do we really need more E ranks?

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 5:56 PM

2017-08-01T17:56:04-04:00

Why? Just more incentive for dead wood on the ROAD program. Is something not getting done with just 9 Enlisted pay grades? There once were only 7 and historians probably can do better than that. Even more basic = Chiefs and Indians. Already too many Chiefs. Not talking about CPO's so check fire Chiefs.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Aug 1 at 2017 7:34 PM

2017-08-01T19:34:41-04:00

Such ranks might have a place under the specialist rating, but not so sure about general military occupational fields like infantry, armor, artillery, etc. Good troop leaders and command advisors have always seemed to do fine at E9 and such a promotion would be more like a longevity bump in the opinion of some.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2017 5:44 PM

2017-08-02T17:44:15-04:00

I SUPPORT THE PAY BUMP. Nothing wrong with giving our Senior NCOs a pay increase when they serve in those positions that WILL BETTER SUPPORT THEM INTO RETIREMENT. However I think it should be tied to base pay and not an add on (as mentioned in an earlier post). I don't think we really need to categorize it as E10/E11, instead lets just code it within the system differently
Examples:
Brigade level CSM E9D
Division level CSM E9C
Corps Level CSM E9B
SMA- E9A

Just the thoughts of an E-7

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2017 7:44 AM

2017-08-05T07:44:53-04:00

Bad idea in my opinion. Nothing wrong with the way things are.

Response by 1SG Melvin Pernell made Aug 14 at 2017 3:00 PM

2017-08-14T15:00:04-04:00

Yes! I'm all for the new change in NCO rank. The Corp needs a change and we could use the pay increase. Here's my ideal.......make ALL E9s staff SGMs, and if you would like to compete for CSM (E10). And make the SMA a E11.

1SG Pernell (RET)

Response by SCPO Morris Ramsey made Oct 2 at 2017 3:24 AM

2017-10-02T03:24:59-04:00

MSG Private RallyPoint Member When 8s and 9s were introduced we were going to get rid of Warrants. 8s and 9s are more than enough. Many commands do very well without them.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2018 6:53 AM

2018-02-12T06:53:12-05:00

The purpose of these new ranks are solely based on raising the pay of the nominative CSMs, nothing else. When a BC, usually a LTC gets promoted to BDE Commander, usually is because they got selected to the rank of COL. This equals more pay with the added responsibility. in the enlisted side a BN CSM gets paid the same as a BDE CSM or higher. Isn't fair for a person to get a pay raise if they have more responsibilities?

Response by MSG Louis Alexander made Feb 12 at 2018 7:34 AM

2018-02-12T07:34:16-05:00

Let’s look at how many new positions would be available worldwide. Currently the senior NCO rank structure is stagnated. Too many staying in after 20 yrs slows promotion for others to advance.