Will one DUI end my career?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 20:39:16 -0400

I got a dui off post. My co found out. He counseled me and said im getting a gomar and article 15. My buddy I might get chaptered by hec for qsp. Is this true?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2022 9:25 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 21:25:51 -0400

What the ideal situation should have been was to let your chain of command know ASAP. Then take whatever heat comes at that level. At the same time, on the back end since it's a civilian DUI fight it tooth and nail so you'd have a chance to state a case to retract the negative actions the Army will leverage in the event you happen to work out the DUI in the civilian courts.

But, regardless of the civilian outcome not bringing this to the attention of your chain of command gives them ammo against you.

There was a SSG that was suppose to replace me from my deployment, but get got a DUI before he shipped out. His clearance was suspended by the CO. He fought it tooth and nail.

Last time I saw this SSG in person was a few months ago, and he is a 1SG now.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 10 at 2022 9:29 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 21:29:47 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member As a 35N, your clearance is an issue for sure, your BDE and likely the Div security managers will review and make recommendations to the CDR's .
Without that clearance, you will be separated.
Come Board/ QMP time, your record will certainly be reviewed..As this happened as a SSG, it will be very difficult to demonstrate you have overcome your transgression and excelled since that day in the very near term when the next Board / QMP board happens.

I would suggest you make this a learning experience as best you can AND start immediately with plans for "What If I get selected for QMP" Don't let it be a surprise you get selected for separation if you make it through the next QMP..the clock is ticking..build a service record that speaks for itself on what you did "after" to support the nation, the unit, the mission and better yourself.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2022 10:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 22:25:42 -0400

You're going to face a QMP. Your chances of surviving a QMP as a SSG with a DUI are slim to none...leaning more towards the none side of the street.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2022 12:24 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 00:24:08 -0400

It's not a chapter, it's a new ETS, you'll still get an honorable discharge.

It's not QSP, it's QMP. You'll want to read the QMP MILPER located on the HRC Enlisted Promotions page.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Aug 11 at 2022 7:31 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 07:31:30 -0400

My $.02 as a SIGINTer -- it doesn't look good. My expectation as a leader was to be informed of these issues as opposed to "finding out". While DUI is bad, not being accountable is adding fuel to the fire. I'll hold you to a higher standard because of the clearance. Prepare for the worse, but this recruiting climate may be to your advantage. There is an after service market for those with a clearance and your skillset. Own your transgression and be the consummate professional moving forward. Lastly, if you don't have a degree yet, use the resources that are available to get one while you have access to them -- Good Luck.

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Aug 11 at 2022 10:54 AM

CPL Sheila Lewis — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 10:54:40 -0400

That's a tough spot to be in...

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Aug 11 at 2022 11:19 AM

CPL Sheila Lewis — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 11:19:00 -0400

I would like to share this: My sister Brenda was killed in a head-on collision with a drug addict(alcohol was in the mix) in 2016, and ever since then I know that alcohol is a drug, so I don't say "alcohol and drugs" because our American civilian counterparts continue in this ignorance. Coming from a place of experience, not judgment, We Military Members should set the better examples for the civilians.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 11 at 2022 11:37 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 11:37:40 -0400

Yes, your career is in jeopardy. You set yourself up for discipline and separation when you made the bad decision to drive under the influence of a drug. You made it worse by not immediately telling your boss you messed up. If I was your CO, I’d be talking to my first sergeant about how we can save or separate you. If you’ve been a good Soldier up till now, I might try to save you through a program of NJP, behavioral health counseling, and job reassignment. Otherwise: pack your stuff, you’re going home.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2022 12:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 12:36:57 -0400

If it just happened, yeah you're not going to get picked up for SFC most likely. It's not necessarily going to get your clearance revoked though. Your security manager will have to do a 5248-R and submit it on DISS to CAF (it's called something else now they just changed it but it's the adjudication facility for DoD). One DUI is not likely to get a revocation - it ultimately depends on what happens from now on.

You do need to keep in touch with your security manager and make sure they do the appropriate follow up after they submit the initial 5248-R though and once there's a final disposition in your case, they need to submit a final with the commander's signature so that way nothing affects your clearance. If the security manager doesn't submit the forms they need to in the time they are supposed to, you could end up with a No Determination Made, which isn't revocation but you lose all access until they get what they need.

Ultimately with your clearance, it just depends on the adjudicator who looks at your stuff but I don't think I've seen anyone get a revocation for one DUI. However, realize if they do send an intent to revoke, you can appeal it. Even if they revoke your clearance, you can reapply a year later.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Aug 11 at 2022 1:49 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 13:49:51 -0400

Remember, he is innocent until convicted. Seems like everyone is just saying skip the trial and hang him, now.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2022 3:42 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 15:42:45 -0400

It is possible that they can initiate separation due to considering DUI's a commission of a serious offense, or if this is not your first DUI, or due to security clearance reasons.

If you have already been actually noticed that you will be receiving a GOMOR and have conducted your Article 15 (NJP) first reading, you should immediately seek out Trial Defense Services (TDS) and set up an appointment with their staff to discuss your options.

You will want to submit a statement and matters in defense, extenuation, and mitigation. DO NOT rely on a verbal response, take the the time to gather people to speak on your behalf or write character letters to submit to both the GOMOR and the Article 15. Take the time to write a memorandum explaining your actions and your request for favorable consideration to the general officer issuing the GOMOR and to the commander initiating the Article 15.

If you are noticed for separation, you will also want to contact TDS for that as well and if possible request a separation board if it is your intention to stay and you will also submit matters for that as well.

You might be in the wrong, but you can fight the whole way to stay or receive favorable consideration on punishment or character of discharge.

Additionally you can also appeal punishments in certain areas of the process, TDS can explain that to you. DO NOT rely on TDS to do everything for you, they are a resource and can advise you or give you information but you will have leg work to do. Your response, your supporting documentation, enrolling in any alcohol or driving recovery classes, and your witnesses or speakers on your behalf are your responsibility to take care of.

Additionally, utilize any resource you have to get the best possible outcome in Civilian Court. If they let you use Vet Court consider doing it, make sure to consult with an attorney. You want to show your chain that you are trying to recover from this.

I have seen NCO's come back from this on Active and in the Guard and Reserves.

Response by CSM John Mead made Aug 31 at 2022 4:55 PM

CSM John Mead — Wed, 31 Aug 2022 16:55:54 -0400

Having worked at DA on a special assignment with the combat arms division, I sat on numerous QMP (not asp as you wrote) boards and DUI's were a kiss of death. Regardless of what your commander's say, prepare for the worse. The field grade Article 15 is the gravy and is standard procedure. With the Army going through tough times, you can hope for the best, but I'd be seeking civilian options.

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Sep 11 at 2022 10:13 PM

SPC John Tacetta — Sun, 11 Sep 2022 22:13:37 -0400

I see a lot of gloom and doom here, and I'm sure things won't end happily if you get convicted. I suppose it's a "Hope for the best, expect the worse" kind of situation. However, I'd hearken to the advice of SPC Private RallyPoint Member below and do everything you can do to have the DUI expunged. The civilian courts are inclined to give service members and veterans a little bit more leeway, particularly if there's a Part for veterans, and it may be that you could pull off an Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal (ACOD) or your local jurisdiction's equivalent. As long as you meet the conditions of the ACOD, a conviction is never recorded and once the terms of the ACOD have been satisfied, the case is dismissed.

GET A LAWYER. DON'T TALK TO ANYONE EXCEPT YOUR LAWYER. LET YOUR LAWYER SPEAK FOR YOU. Remember: YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.

Response by PO3 James Heine made Sep 14 at 2022 5:49 PM

PO3 James Heine — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 17:49:25 -0400

It depends. I knew one guy in my Navy nuclear Power School class unit who got a DUI and trashed a fence. He got off with a suspended reduction-in-rate for 6 months (meaning that if he got written up again, he'd lose his E4 AND maybe a stripe. If he was a good boy for 6 months, everything was OK). That was for DUI AND vandalism if you consider the fence being mowed down.

In California I knew another guy who was sent to a psych hospital for a DUI charge. I don't remember if he got busted or not. He made it clear that he wanted OUT of the Navy on a psychological disability, in his case it was 'suicidal tendencies'. He plain said it, 'Oh, my wife and son will do fine without me'. IOW, he was hoping for a medical discharge for a mental/emotional illness. Of course, that is under honorable conditions usually. The staff didn't buy it, they got him for malingering. Finally, it got to where he camped under a table in the lounge room (didn't get out under it to even relieve himself) and went on a 'hunger strike' in order to get that medical discharge on psychiatric conditions. A master-at-arms came into the ward and hauled his ass away. Now he really was in deep doo-doo. A DUI alone wouldn't have ruined his career but it's a sure bet these other stupid shenanigans on top of that surely did! He should've taken his lumps like a man. We're talking about brig time here and worse.

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made Sep 15 at 2022 2:14 AM

Cpl Craig Howard — Thu, 15 Sep 2022 02:14:32 -0400

I had a buddy get a DUI in town, in California. The Judge hammered him pretty hard, and then he faced the Marines for discipline. He had a real eye opening moment. This was back in the early 90's, and we were both Cpl's at the time. As an E-4, if he were to have re-enlisted, it may have delayed E-5, but not ruined his career. As people advance, it will most likely hinder advancement, and if it is an Officer, it may be one and done.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Oct 23 at 2022 5:32 PM

CPO Kurt Baschab — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 17:32:31 -0400

YES!

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Oct 23 at 2022 6:54 PM

CPO Kurt Baschab — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 18:54:35 -0400

I Have been retired from the Military service for 7 years now, so unless something has changed recently, you will be discharged from the military service, FROM MY 1ST DAY IN MILITARY SERVICE IN THE EARLY 1980, I was on active duty to the day I retired, I watched the military go from almost no punishments for drinking, fighting to 3 strikes your out, to zero tolerance, in the 1990 , you get one alcohol incident, one DUI and you were standing before the command , getting your punishments for bringing dishonor upon the service, and the community, after you received your punishment, and alcohol treatment you will be processed out with a dishonorable discharge, the VA can change it after 6 mo to a GENERAL discharge, UNLESS I AM MISTAKEN , make sure you do all the treatment, PROGRAMS THEY OFFER YOU , this will help you keep some of your VA benefits

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Nov 25 at 2022 5:35 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Fri, 25 Nov 2022 17:35:13 -0500

Typically a GOMAR ends careers!

Response by CPL LaForest Gray made Nov 25 at 2022 6:16 PM

CPL LaForest Gray — Fri, 25 Nov 2022 18:16:25 -0500

It depends on your record as a solider and your command.

I saw many soldiers of various ranks (NCO’s & Officers) with DUI’s unfortunately get chapter out when I was the Strength Manager for Garrison Command :

These are the potential UMCJ articles that might be applied.

1.) UMCJ Article 112: Drunk on Duty

2.) UCMJ Article 113
Drunken or Reckless Operation of a Vehicle, Aircraft, or Vessel

3.) UMCJ Article 134: Criminalizes all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces and all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces)

Be upfront with your command, DO NOT BLINDSIDE them (I.e., they find out from the Post Blotter … that’s definitely a. career ender), it shows your taking responsibility and ownership.

Speak with Military defense (JAG) attorney right away.

I wish you the very best, you made a mistake … you’re human. Learn and Grow.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2022 8:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Nov 2022 20:26:06 -0500

Well as one who listc4 members of their family to a drunk driver I hope they kick your deadbeat ass out and the civilians throw your worthless ass in jail.

Response by SGT Kenneth Rand made Feb 11 at 2023 3:24 PM

SGT Kenneth Rand — Sat, 11 Feb 2023 15:24:20 -0500

It depends if you're a Caucasian male you're screwed, if you have boobs you'll be fine.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Feb 13 at 2023 4:05 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Mon, 13 Feb 2023 04:05:06 -0500

It can. Seen it happen many times.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Feb 15 at 2023 9:03 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 21:03:32 -0500

Back in the day, you might have gotten it swept under the rug like what happened to everyone else around me when I was in. Now? You're probably done, since they're still trying to get rid of people.

Response by SGT Loren Hammons made May 9 at 2023 1:01 PM

SGT Loren Hammons — Tue, 09 May 2023 13:01:11 -0400

Yes