Will Senior Leaders Who Refuse COVID Vaccination Receive Court Martial?

LTC Lars Staack — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 22:42:28 -0400

Now that a FDA approved COVID vaccine is available, the military meets the requirements set by Doe v Rumsfeld and can lawfully order Servicemembers to receive the vaccination. Because the act of COVID vaccination is so politically charged, there will almost certainly be senior grades who refuse it. Those who have their hands on the pulse of the current command climate: will the military make examples of senior grade NCOs and Officers who refuse to get vaccinated?

The military orders I have read in the press seem to indicate that those who refuse the vaccine will be dealt with administratively. However, I would think that the refusal by a commander would be against the good order of the military and set a bad example. A well publicized court martial would certainly send a message to those seeking a pension.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2021 10:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 22:54:07 -0400

You make an interesting point about good order and discipline. How did we ever get to a place where an inoculation became so political?

Response by CPL Earl Kochis made Sep 5 at 2021 11:11 PM

CPL Earl Kochis — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 23:11:57 -0400

If it was actually a vaccine! It’s not it’s a therapy that hasn’t been tested except on the population that decided that they would be the experiment! Any good lawyer could burn this in court. One it hasn’t been properly tested per federal standards! It’s only been around for 1 yr and has massive side effects!

Response by CPT Christopher Stanco made Sep 5 at 2021 11:19 PM

CPT Christopher Stanco — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 23:19:13 -0400

Should be a choice. Address the prevention with the treatment- not a vax that needs boosters.

Just my humble opinion.

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Sep 5 at 2021 11:59 PM

SPC Nancy Greene — Sun, 05 Sep 2021 23:59:35 -0400

You pose an extremely good question LTC Lars Staack! I know I had no choices when it came to what ‘shots’ the Army gave me.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Sep 6 at 2021 1:03 AM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:03:05 -0400

Wake up people!!! You are NOT Court Martialed for not getting a Vaccination, YOU ARE Court Martialed for not following a direct order.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2021 1:05 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:05:39 -0400

I just hope they are booted swiftly from the military.

Response by LTC Lars Staack made Sep 6 at 2021 1:57 AM

LTC Lars Staack — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:57:51 -0400

I just noticed the article below from Military.com

Congressman Mark Green says: "No American who raises their hand to serve our Nation should be punished for making a highly personal medical decision."

"The Pentagon has repeatedly stopped short of saying it will boot troops for refusing the shot. Commanders will have a range of options that stop short of punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

"In any case, the bill is unlikely to be signed into law until months after all the military services are enforcing COVID-19 inoculations."

If this bill becomes law, any Servicemember would be able to veto any medical treatment. That potentially means a lot of non-deployable Servicemembers.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/09/02/lawmakers-try-ban-dishonorable-discharges-troops-who-refuse-mandatory-covid-19-vaccines.html

Lawmakers Try to Ban Dishonorable Discharges for Troops Who Refuse Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccines

Legislation sponsored by Rep. Mark Green requires only honorable discharges for anyone separated over refusing to be vaccinated.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2021 2:04 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 02:04:43 -0400

It's up to the branch and the commander. Some people received court martial for refusing Anthrax vaccines, most were just separated.

I don't think it's likely that any Senior Leader will receive a court martial. More likely they will receive a General Reprimand, be removed from leadership positions and separated that way with an honorable discharge and their retirement

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2021 3:23 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:23:14 -0400

I suppose that this was arbitrarily approved, will their be any legal recourse in making us do something that can permanently disable us and ruin the rest of our lives. Fir me I’m a pilot so health is key. There is no data suggesting whether or not this will have long term effects that can end our careers. So, will the VA give a disability if it turns out this was a bad idea for something that is novel and never done before like RNA treatments. I feel like we are being ordered to take a revolver to our head and play Russian roulette. You have to do this, but if it ruins your life, sucks to be you!

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 6 at 2021 9:33 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 09:33:01 -0400

There's no need for guesses or opinions.
AR 600-20, 5-4 (2) specifically outlines what Commanders must do when Soldiers refuse mandatory vaccinations.
Considering that's the topic, everyone should probably read it.

Response by Capt Gregory Prickett made Sep 6 at 2021 10:14 AM

Capt Gregory Prickett — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 10:14:44 -0400

Doe v Rumsfeld is not controlling law, it is a decision by a trial court. Only appellate court decisions are binding law.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Sep 6 at 2021 4:35 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 16:35:02 -0400

I remember having to take the Japanese Encephalitis vaccine before it was FDA approved. Anthrax too. Refusal to comply with a legal order is a UCMJ offense. Typical outcome is an administrative separation with whatever label comes with any specific extracurriculars you toss into it. In the Grand Scheme, the military most always looks for the path of least resistance to wash its hands of a problem. In the commercial sector, the requirement is a term and condition of employment. Many times it becomes a topic for bargaining under the relevant CBA. Even then, management can require it. Suits in this area would relate to management not dealing with the union. Not liking the result would be tough getting a judge to stay the requirement. This stuff isn't new.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2021 6:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 18:31:10 -0400

LTC Lars Staack why shouldn't they... their Rank doesn't make them safe to be around.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2021 9:22 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 21:22:49 -0400

I just use common sense and got vaccinated not just for me, but for my family. We have come a long way scientifically to argue that a vaccine cannot be tested in such a short period. Got mine last January and second dose in February. Not a single side effect. Many, many people are hung up on conspiracies and think we are gonna die sooner than expected or grow antlers. With every new vaccination, there has always been fear mongering. I see it as the government simply has debt that needs to be paid back to Big Pharma and nothing more when it comes to the rush for people getting the shot. Now that Pfizer has been officially approved, there is no doubt in my mind, that if a service member refuses to receive it unless they have a TRUE reason, there will be consequences.

Response by SSG George Holtje made Sep 7 at 2021 8:55 PM

SSG George Holtje — Tue, 07 Sep 2021 20:55:19 -0400

I couldn't retire until I got the flu shot. They can suck up the vaccine. It only sucks for a day or two.

Response by SP5 James Elmore made Sep 16 at 2021 11:05 AM

SP5 James Elmore — Thu, 16 Sep 2021 11:05:11 -0400

How did it happen? It became political from the top. We had senior elected officials wavering on the vaccine and the disease, one moment calling it a hoax the next minute backtracking. At the same time, our unelected but highly qualified civilians in Government never wavering on the seriousness of the virus. To this day, because of that lack of political support, too many people won't do what ordinarily would be an obvious duty to our friends, neighbors, and country. It strikes me as odd that except for a few outliers, the medical community is completely in favor of the recommendations of the CDC, yet so many people are true believers of scams and con artists. They rely on tiny studies that mean almost nothing in scientific terms to support claims. It's astounding how ignorant of the scientific process our people as whole are and how, as science learns more, it's recommendations might change.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2021 12:42 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:42:59 -0400

It doesn't sound like anyone will get court martialed who refuses. There's an EXORD out that explains the process that pretty much aligns with AR 600-20 - which outlined the process for mandatory vaccine refusals for years now.

From what I understand those who refuse get a GOMOR, counseling and then it goes from there.

Response by CPT Christopher Stanco made Sep 22 at 2021 7:34 PM

CPT Christopher Stanco — Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:34:52 -0400

How about we treat the illness, not focus on the vax so much.

The medications to TREAT THE Illness are not being used.

Anyone else see this as odd??

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Oct 11 at 2021 10:29 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Mon, 11 Oct 2021 10:29:46 -0400

Which FDA Approved vaccine is available? Last I saw Cominarty (or however it is spelled) is approved - but is not available.

Which means there is still no approved vaccine, and in line with the Anthrax ruling, mandate for an EUA vaccine is questionable, at best.

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Oct 11 at 2021 1:11 PM

SFC Randy Hellenbrand — Mon, 11 Oct 2021 13:11:25 -0400

BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by MSG Harvey Kane made Dec 12 at 2021 1:56 PM

MSG Harvey Kane — Sun, 12 Dec 2021 13:56:23 -0500

I agree. Further, troops must be fit to mobilize to hostile unvaccinated areas. Courts martial any who refuse.