With the Army pushing civilian education so hard, are we losing sight on training Soldiers to be leaders first?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 11:56:11 -0500

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jan 27 at 2014 12:16 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 12:16:58 -0500

Big Army can push all they want for civilian education. The responsibility for actually training Soldiers is on the first line supervisors and company command teams.

If a Soldier's civilian education is interfering with MOS and Soldier skills, that is on the first line supervisor and the Command team that authorized the Soldier to pursue civilian ed to the detriment of their duties.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2014 12:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 12:20:37 -0500

I don't think so the army is just trying to create smarter soldiers so that we can continue to move forward. If we have lost focus on leadership I don't think it has anything to do with pursuing civilian education.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2014 2:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jan 2014 14:28:33 -0500

I can remember having this conversation with CSM Murphy when he was the Engineer Regimental CSM. His take was that the enlisted side of the house needs to be able to be on par with the officer side when it comes to education. To have a PL with a degree, it would benefit all if the PSG had one as well. Plus it makes transition easier when it comes time to leave the service. Whether it be ETS or retirement, education will definitely help the exiting Soldier. I became curious when the NCOES went to a college style adult learning model. I can see a big difference between SLC and ANCOC. I don't feel as though the self taught modules are as effective as the old ways.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2014 3:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 15:59:37 -0500

Actually, I think it is the other way around. As a supply SGT I have worked with several junior officers who think that they have more knowledge then me in the logistics field, because they have a degree. Then I explain to them not only do I have several degrees I also have the experience. If anything having a formal education has made me a better leader, which allows me to train my soldiers more on logistical capabilities.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2014 12:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:31:01 -0400

Furthering a Soldiers eductaion is definitely important and does nothing but set the Soldier up for success, regardless of rank or longevitiy in the service. The problem is wether or not that specific Soldier will actually be given or granted the time needed to pursue a proper education. Many times, civilian education is pushed and pushed, almost forced at times even, yet sufficent time isn't always allotted or afforded to the Soldier. When a 1SG say's in his speech "Hey men, it took 15 years, but I got my BA in blah blah blah" how much is that really going to motivate a Soldier to dedicate time to pursuing a degree? Soldiers will put forward a greater interest and effort when proper time is given.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 25 at 2014 12:41 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:41:53 -0400

I have already achieved my education goals but years ago I brought a TA assistance form to my squad leader and this was his question, "Why do you want to go to college" his tone of voice and demeanor was as if he said, "That's a waste of time". Needless to say the commander allowed me to go to college but this guy was a hard[expletive] and he'd try to find ways for me to miss classes by having me stay late after work, or putting me on details or going out of his way to place me on CQ on Saturday because I had classes on Saturdays in Korea. I was once a few pounds over and he immediately told me to go drop out of class and hang it up because I am getting flagged for being over wait. My 1SG gave me two weeks to loose the weight and I of course lost more than two pounds. He clearly did not like me. This is 2000-2001 in Korea when pushing a broom was more important than going to college.

Response by 1SG Michael Minton made Mar 25 at 2014 1:25 PM

1SG Michael Minton — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 13:25:07 -0400

You should be able to have both. when a soldier would bring me a TA, i looked at the time period and length of the course. compare it to our quarterly training schedules. if there was no conflict such as going to NTA or field training etc, then it would be approved. Brown bag classes during lunch were never a problem and were excused the 10-15 mintutes after lunch to get back to work. if we were in the field, we stayed committed to the TA we signed and would truck those with classes back in at night and back after class. so my soldiers had no problem going to class if i approved their TA. now there were a few times no bodies TA got approved during certain periods of training that they would have to be there, but once we got through what ever it was, they could signup for courses and i would make sure they could go. so it dont have to be either/or, leaders can make both happen!

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 25 at 2014 1:46 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 13:46:19 -0400

“Not all readers are leaders, but all leaders are readers.”

Harry S. Truman

Response by CPL Timothy Coffey made Feb 28 at 2016 9:35 PM

CPL Timothy Coffey — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:35:09 -0500

History is full of untrained leaders, this leads me to believe they are born, and not trained. Education and perspective are good ways for leaders to sharpen their skills. I have seen troupes have more leadership qualities because they train. But some of the worlds best leaders have had less than High school, in war, life, business.