Woman to become NY firefighter despite failing crucial fitness test! What are your thoughts?

2015-05-04T13:35:09-04:00

What do you think of the lowered standards for this one women, but not all fire fighters, and not all women?

Article text and link below.

The FDNY for the first time in its history will allow someone who failed its crucial physical fitness test to join the Bravest.

Rebecca Wax, 33, is set to graduate Tuesday from the Fire Academy without passing the Functional Skills Training test, a grueling obstacle course of job-related tasks performed in full gear with a limited air supply, an insider has revealed.

“They’re going to allow the first person to graduate without passing because this administration has lowered the standard,” said the insider, who is familiar with the training.

Upon graduation, Wax would be assigned to a firehouse and tasked with the full duties of a firefighter.

Some FDNY members are angry.

“We’re being asked to go into a fire with someone who isn’t 100 percent qualified,” the source said. “Our job is a team effort. If there’s a weak link in the chain, either civilians or our members can die.”

Wax’s graduation comes as the city celebrates the FDNY’s 150th anniversary and as the department is under pressure by the de Blasio administration to hire more women.

Only 44 of the FDNY’s 10,500 firefighters are female.

While Wax fell short, two other female probies in the graduating class passed the FST with flying colors.

“They’re kicking butt. They’re doing better than 50 percent of the class,” the insider said. “When they get assigned to a firehouse, they’ll be welcomed with open arms because they’ve done what everyone else has gone through.”

Other female firefighters aren’t pleased about Wax’s treatment, either.

“A lot of the girls in the field are pissed because they feel like they’re getting lumped into the same category of a female getting special treatment and not meeting the same standards as the males,” the insider added. “It devalues what the women in the field have accomplished.”

“We’re being asked to go into a fire with someone who isn’t 100 percent qualified. Our job is a team effort. If there’s a weak link in the chain, either civilians or our members can die.”

In the FST exam, probies must breathe through a mask attached to an air tank while carrying up to 50 pounds of gear.

They must climb six flights of stairs, stretch hose lines, raise ladders, perform tasks that simulate breaking doors and pulling down ceilings, and drag dummies through tunnels with no visibility.

They must complete the course in 17 minutes, 50 seconds or less.

Despite many attempts over the Fire Academy’s 18-week training course, Wax completed the test just once — but it took her more than 22 minutes, the source said.

In numerous tries, Wax struggled and was too slow. While fit probies finish with air left in their tanks, she had to stop when hers ran out, the source added.

“She’s in the best shape of her life, and it’s still not good enough,” he said.

Under the FDNY’s new hiring policy, probies must earn at least 75 percent on the combined requirements of academics, hands-on skills and physical fitness.

Wax had a high grade-point average on her academics, which officials determined offset her FST deficiency, the insider said.

Last December, Fire Commissioner Daniel Nigro told a City Council hearing on the FDNY’s efforts to recruit women that he had changed FST requirements to lower obstacles.

“We still grade the people. You can still fail it if you go beyond the time, but you’re not automatically failed from the program,” he said.

He also indicated he wanted to act before a possible sex discrimination lawsuit after the city paid $98 million to settle a lawsuit that accused the FDNY of discriminating against minorities.

“We must no longer wait for a judge’s ruling to tell us what fairness means,” Nigro said.

United Women Firefighters, an organization of FDNY women, objects to the FST test, contending it unfairly bars females.

The FST requires a much higher level of fitness than the Candidate Physical Ability Test, which applicants must pass to enter the academy.

Experts say the FST mirrors the demands of the job, training would-be firefighters to work in stressful environments while conserving their air supply.

Wax had previously received another break to join the FDNY after pleading in June 2011 for a City Council bill that raised the age limit from 29 to 35 for applicants like her who first took the entrance exam in 2007. A hiring freeze imposed by federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis in the discrimination suit put them in limbo.

“I want nothing more than to be a New York City firefighter,” Wax, then 29, had testified at a hearing.

Wax has worked as a civilian FDNY employee since 2009, lately as a community coordinator, making $52,338 last year.

Reached outside her Upper East Side apartment Friday, she would not speak to a reporter.

Nigro, questioned by The Post during an FDNY anniversary celebration at a Midtown firehouse Saturday, refused to comment on Wax’s fitness failure.

“Every one of our 305 probies have passed and will be graduating Tuesday,” he said. “She has met the requirements.”

The probationary class started with 320 recruits, meaning 15 dropped out or must retake the course.

http://nypost.com/2015/05/03/woman-to-become-ny-firefighter-despite-failing-crucial-fitness-test/

Woman to become NY firefighter despite failing crucial fitness test

The FDNY for the first time in its history will allow someone who failed its crucial physical fitness test to join the Bravest, The Post has learned. Rebecca Wax, 33, is set to graduate Tuesday fro...

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made May 4 at 2015 1:36 PM

2015-05-04T13:36:19-04:00

What aren't they telling us? Is this political?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2015 1:36 PM

2015-05-04T13:36:22-04:00

That is so cool! hahh

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made May 4 at 2015 1:35 PM

2015-05-04T13:35:39-04:00

The fitness test are there for a reason. I feel sorry for her because the process let her down and the company who will be getting her.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2015 1:53 PM

2015-05-04T13:53:27-04:00

Disgraceful!! Enough with this PC-tippy-toeing-or-the-girl-will-cry sh*t. She failed--boot her out.

From the article: “Our job is a team effort. If there’s a weak link in the chain, either civilians or our members can die.”
--Enough said.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 4 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-05-04T14:17:37-04:00

My crystal ball says.
She will quit or be let go in the coming months, she will sue and win.
And the city will put her back on the job as part of the settlement where she will again quit.

You CAN NOT do that job alone if you're on the line... so unless they move here to a position in the department that requires NO teamwork and cooperation from fellow firefighters (equipment maintainer, investigator, admin) she will fail, she will be a liability, she is putting her fellow fighters lives at risk.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made May 4 at 2015 3:49 PM

2015-05-04T15:49:28-04:00

More PC nonsense... This is the same PC BS that the military will be forced to follow suit on with women in Infantry, Ranger School, etc.

Set a standard for all to meet and allow anybody who meets the standard to participate. There should be no relaxation of standards for sex, race, or anything else. If the standard is fair and accurately meets the requirements of the job, it should be met by all.

Response by SFC Stephen King made May 4 at 2015 4:28 PM

2015-05-04T16:28:58-04:00

If there is a standard it is there for a purpose. I cannot imagine a fire house accepting her with open arms. The motto you go I go. My friend is a fireman and he has had to grab some people out of fires bigger than him can she accomplish the mission?

Response by SFC Mark Merino made May 4 at 2015 7:07 PM

2015-05-04T19:07:32-04:00

Well gee whiz, pinkies out, politically correct, tears of equality. Am I all ready to put on a Ranger and Special Forces tab because I no longer need to worry about passing the standards?.......making those tabs a joke. No Sir, I don't like it; not one bit.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2015 7:18 PM

2015-05-04T19:18:45-04:00

Now here is my two cents on this subject... She will not last more then a month ( and i am giving her some there) before one of two things happen... We loose her or another firefighter(s) to a LODD trying to save her ass or 2 she will quit then sue the city for discrimination and probably win.... If you cant do the job and save your brother next to you then GTFO

Response by Cpl Kristoffer Mischel made May 4 at 2015 7:31 PM

2015-05-04T19:31:39-04:00

Standards are there for a reason. I've known plenty of people who are really academically smart, but when it came to practical application and actually putting what they learned in a text book to use they were the worst. Just because you can pass a written exam does not mean you have what it takes to do the job. Firefighting is a physically demanding job and the physical tests are there to make sure you can hack it. Ms. Wax was unable to complete her objective in the time allotted therefore should not have been allowed to graduate. God forbid she goes in with a team and she finds herself in a situation that she can't get herself and the ones that are depending on out of. It would be like trying to clear a house room to room with a crippled dominant arm. Sure it could be done, but the risk is much higher when someone cannot pull their own weight.
She should have just taken her lumps and conceded the fact that she was not good enough. Sure she would have to admit she may not be able to live her dream, but not everyone's dream can come true.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made May 4 at 2015 7:43 PM

2015-05-04T19:43:02-04:00

Just plain stupid!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 5:22 PM

2015-05-18T17:22:42-04:00

She will sit at a Fire station until she complains about not being used at a fire. When they are forced to let her go in, she will freeze and or not be able to physically get the job done or run out of air way faster than her teammates, in which case now they need to rescue her and the people in the burning house which could/will get herself and her teammates killed, along with the people they were trying to rescue. Then guess who is going to sue? The families of firefighters the city let down by letting a non-qualified individual on their team. Just my prediction and opinion. I'm not saying i can meet every physical standard that's out there. If I were to go for Ranger or SFAS, and I can't meet the physical requirement, I don't expect to continue training. There are standards for a reason.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 5:23 PM

2015-05-18T17:23:19-04:00

PT is pretty vital to being a fire fighter the last time I checked. I wouldn't want her coming to put out a fire at my house!

Response by MGySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 7:17 AM

2015-05-26T07:17:38-04:00

Her retention is a political decision and chances are someone may die because she doesn't have the physical stamina for firefighting. If someone does, expect lawsuits. FDNY is a bureaucracy and like all bureaucracies they have admin billets. She'll probably end up there, wearing the uniform, enjoying the prestige and receiving a paycheck she doesn't rate.

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made May 26 at 2015 12:55 PM

2015-05-26T12:55:10-04:00

Political correctness run amok

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 2:54 PM

2015-05-26T14:54:05-04:00

I think it's BS. I was a volunteer firefighter for 3 years prior to enlisting, and even as a volunteer, we still had to meet fitness requirements, or we were put on probation. No call, no training. Just PT. And the women in our department had to meet the SAME requirements as the men, because at the end of the day, they may have to do the exact same job. So this is ridiculous.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 2:56 PM

2015-05-26T14:56:44-04:00

There's a lower standard, which isn't always a good thing, and there's failing a required course which they need to save lives of others.

That would be like a female not being able to qualify on her M16/M4 and being allowed to graduate Basic Training.

Response by SPC William Weedman made May 26 at 2015 8:57 PM

2015-05-26T20:57:42-04:00

I am a former firefighter, and a firefighter who cannot do the job will end up in one of three places, on the street, in a non-firefighting job, or as an officer. Since she is in a career dept. it should be the street, but most likely although to avoid a lawsuit after she is ostracized by her station house, they will shuffle her off to fire prevention or public information to avoid the negative publicity this has caused. The worst part is, they will fast track her into an officer position, to keep her quiet & happy. I have seen this in other career departments. A volunteer department would simply toss her off and be done with it, but then volunteer departments aren't FDNY.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made May 27 at 2015 12:04 PM

2015-05-27T12:04:47-04:00

desk duty? dispatch? No way she will be on actual calls.

Response by SFC Siva Williams made May 29 at 2015 2:58 PM

2015-05-29T14:58:09-04:00

Everyone gets an award is cool for kindergarteners through second grade. There comes a point in life when people need to realize that there are winners and losers. When you lose you need to have the fortitude to recognize your faults then improve on them so next time you will be in the win column. PC has gotten to the point where winning and losing is now equivalent to life or death. Will someone lose their life because this fireman isn't fit enough to perform her duties? It is hard to say. The real question is "Do you want to take the chance that this weak link could cause a death?" The answer is no. There are professions out their that require a person to be fit and ready to perform. You cannot compromise when lives are at stake.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 8:53 AM

2015-06-26T08:53:36-04:00

Blasio and people like him are the downfall of our society. He wants more women in the FDNY and could care less how they get there. It is sad to see the officials are allowing this to take place.

I was asked (once) to "Ensure" my Lt qualified on her handgun. I told my Chief she will qualify or not on her own terms and effort. I asked him why had he never taken special interest in any of our Airmen? He had nothing in return. The Lt did fail, blamed me for it, and she was forced to go through qualification all over again.

Things should be earned and not given. I know Airmen that busted their ass and made CMSgt. They did it through effort and commitment. This young lady will never know what that feels like.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 1:01 PM

2015-07-02T13:01:05-04:00

When I worked with the fire department I saw this occur for purposes of "minority or gender integration". It always made me uneasy. If I burned to death because my partner was too weak to pull me from the fire, I and my family would not feel better knowing that I needlessly died in order to be more politically correct. I am old school: meet the criteria or move on.

The problem we wrestle with in gender or racial ... etc. "quotas" is not a gender or racial one. The problem is expectations of integration without recognition of ability or crucial differences. We all cannot grow up to be Arnold Swartzenager, Michael Jordan, Elton John, Margaret Thatcher, Florence Nightingale, Mahatma Gandhi or name your famous successful person. We can not do everything we desire and want. Yes it is true... many of our parents lied to us when we were small. We cannot all grow up to be whatever we want to. I cannot will myself tall or heavy enough to be a Pro basketball or football player. I cannot will myself to be a genius of the likes of Stephen Hawkins. It's not about will or desire and my inability to reach those goals do not reveal societal prejudice but simply genetic realities. We need to accept that we ARE all inequality different and amazing: we are not the same so it is ignorant to assume we can achieve anything. Equality once again is the opportunity to have the chance to both succeed at something and fail. No matter how badly I want to be a Mother my biological and genetic makeup does not permit it. We must accept and embrace our inherent differences and maintain common sense. Standards of excellence and professional performance should be race, gender, age, religion and sexual orientation blind.

We must embrace the fact that making a decision against or for someone based on their race, gender, sexuality etc IS a civil rights violation. Meet the criteria or move on.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jul 2 at 2015 3:57 PM

2015-07-02T15:57:50-04:00

I dont agree with her not passing everything that needs to be passed, I'm all for letting women give it a go for anything, but they have to pass the same standards as men as there are men who can't even pass it sometimes.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 2 at 2015 3:58 PM

2015-07-02T15:58:14-04:00

I'm not surprised by anything that comes out of New York or California these days.

In the article it states "She has a high enough overall grade that she passed even though she failed the PFT."

They should treat it like the military does. A failure in one area is an overall failure, regardless of how well you do in all other areas.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2018 4:56 PM

2018-02-12T16:56:21-05:00

When we pander to political correctness instead of adhering to standards we all lose. We all have the same rights and a just society requires equal opportunity. This is where the ALT Left Fail to follow through. Equality in opportunity does not dictate outcome. You have the same opportunity to reach a goal as you do to fail. That is fairness. No one has less or more civil rights because of race, sexual orientation, religion nor what kind of genitalia you posses. All irrelevant.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Jul 8 at 2018 9:22 AM

2018-07-08T09:22:22-04:00

The new norm in American society.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jan 15 at 2019 5:41 PM

2019-01-15T17:41:33-05:00

WOW...do they want her to charge into a WTC scenario going up and down stairs and can't physically get in the dang door...how many people are going to die due to her incompetency.