Women In Field Artillery, In The United States Army. Is This The Way Forward?

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:15:25 -0400

In my opinion the Army is heading in the right direction (equality for all).
In a recent Armytimes Artice:
The Army plans to open to women all but one field artillery MOS, the service's top officer said Monday.
With the exception of the 13F military occupational specialty, "we have decided … we are not going to ask for a waiver to keep it closed," said Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno.
This decision, which opens up MOSs such as cannon crewmember (13B) and field artillery automated tactical data system specialist (13D), comes just weeks after the Army opened the combat engineer (12B) MOS to women.
It also follows a decision from more than a year ago to open all field artillery officer positions to women.
A decision about the 13F, or fire support specialist, MOS will be made when the Army makes a decision about whether to open the infantry and armor specialties to women, Odierno said.
"We're going to do that with infantry and armor because they're embedded with infantry and armor units," Odierno said.
These changes are the latest in an ongoing campaign to eliminate the Direct Ground Combat Assignment Rule by dismantling, in phases, policies that have barred women from serving in combat units below the brigade level.
The campaign began in 2012 when the Army opened 13,000 positions previously closed to women; the goal is to open most positions to women by the end of 2015.
Since 2012, the Army has conducted extensive tests as it tried to determine which MOSs should be opened to women and how it should be done.
"We've done a lot of pilot programs, we've done a lot of physical testing, we've done a lot of testing on how we integrate women into units, and those are all going well," Odierno said. "We want the best person, if they're qualified and meet the standards, we want to give them the opportunity to do whatever they want."
For the field artillery MOSs, using data from the physical studies, "we felt women, as part of an artillery crew, could do all the things necessary to do that [job], so we've opened that up," Odierno said.
Army senior leaders have not made a decision about whether they will ask for a waiver to keep infantry and armor closed to women, he said.
"We're headed in the right direction, but we still have some work to do," said Odierno, who is wrapping up his tenure as chief of staff later this month. "That was a decision I wanted to make, but, frankly, we didn't have the data in time for me to make that decision."
The decision about those remaining MOSs will fall to Odierno's successor, Gen. Mark Milley, who is pending Senate confirmation.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/08/03/odierno-army-open-most-field-artillery-jobs-women/31083303/

Odierno: Army to open most field artillery jobs to women

The Army plans to open to women all but one field artillery MOS, the service's top officer said Monday.

Response by SGT Brian Nile made Aug 4 at 2015 6:25 PM

SGT Brian Nile — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:25:44 -0400

Sarge you always on POINT, leading the charge on relevant issues in today's military BROTHER!

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Aug 4 at 2015 6:28 PM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:28:24 -0400

Sweet!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2015 6:41 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:41:40 -0400

I say do it! I have had the opportunity to serve with some amazing, outstanding and competent female Soldiers. Some that actually smoked the heck out of me. Giving the fact that less than 1% of the American population serve in the military, it doesn't make sense to restrict any MOS. I do however think that the standard should not be lowered.

Response by SGT Kristjan Rahe made Aug 4 at 2015 6:47 PM

SGT Kristjan Rahe — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:47:41 -0400

If a woman can perform any job, let them in

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Aug 4 at 2015 6:49 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:49:08 -0400

I thought there always were women in FA!

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Aug 4 at 2015 6:49 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:49:13 -0400

Does it really matter the sex? Just do work!

Response by SN Greg Wright made Aug 4 at 2015 6:56 PM

SN Greg Wright — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:56:31 -0400

Rounds fired by a woman will do their job regardless. More power to the army.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2015 7:04 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 19:04:13 -0400

I don't see why not, women have been serving in all capacities in Air Defense Artillery and there isn't much of a difference in my opinion.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 4 at 2015 8:22 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 20:22:42 -0400

How much do the rounds weigh?

Response by LTC Gavin Heater made Aug 4 at 2015 9:14 PM

LTC Gavin Heater — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 21:14:40 -0400

There were female officers in my Field Artillery Officers Basic Course back in 1986. None of them could choose FA, and were branch detailed, but a handful were there. Most of the female officers were able to do all the male dominated physical tasks during the course field training, some better than others and one better than many males. By the time most made Captain, they went to their assigned branches. I am certain enlisted women can fit in as well. Field living may be a challenge at first, as sections bunk together. Time will tell.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2015 9:17 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 21:17:11 -0400

I don't think there would be a problem with women in Field Artillery. If they can do the calculations and adjustments necessary to support a call for fire and the other functions of their position, then more power to them!

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 5 at 2015 7:56 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Wed, 05 Aug 2015 07:56:55 -0400

Frankly there are plenty of women who can do the job as well as men. If they can do it, I say let them!

Response by SMSgt Bryan Raines made Aug 5 at 2015 8:24 AM

SMSgt Bryan Raines — Wed, 05 Aug 2015 08:24:26 -0400

Don't relax the standards and if any person qualifies for the duty then let them do it.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Aug 5 at 2015 9:26 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Wed, 05 Aug 2015 21:26:51 -0400

2003 I was at Victory Base, Baghdad. I was told to coordinate with a British soldier to get over night billets for some British troops passing through. The Brit SGT(female) and I got everything squared away. On the way out, I asked her what her real job in the army was. "I'm a gun bunny" was her reply!

Response by SFC James Lopez made Sep 10 at 2015 5:10 PM

SFC James Lopez — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:10:02 -0400

I'm not so sure why so many are jumping on this bandwagon of supporting women in the Field Artillery, especially in 13F roles, when most are not even FA, much less 13F (I've seen one 13F and one FA Officer). My question is, why? Is there a shortage of Artillerymen? Is there an impending war that is about to occur in which the Army is going to suffer from a severe attrition due to combat so there's a need to back fill bodies for fill the different roles in the FA? Or, which is my guess, is this another area in which the powers that be wants to use the military as some sort of political platform/social experiment like we have seen in so many other areas?
For those that have served for a long time, have you forgotten what it was like when you went to the field? There were no bunks, or tents to sleep in. Everything you needed to sustain yourself and to operate for an extended period of time was carried on your back. I know current theaters of operations has everyone living on FOBs, but that way of operating/fighting may not be how we...you (I'm retired now)... conduct business in the next war.
Go ahead you who are in power, and let women in these front line combat roles, but don't come crying when it all blows up in your faces! In my opinion, stop using the military as a social/political platform and use it for what it was meant to do; be able to maintain a show of strength and deter war, and if the need arises, to be able to go and kick ass!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2015 1:53 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Sep 2015 13:53:03 -0400

We had a female 13A 2LT in our Brigade. Great officer. From what the Battalion Commander said, she was one of his best Platoon Leaders. Seems like it works to me. That was 1.5 years ago. The world didn't fall apart and burn. She did a hell of a job and will be a great Field Artillery officer.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Dec 12 at 2015 1:56 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 13:56:29 -0500

Precisely, MAJ. That was my first thought as to the weight of the round. If you have a casualty that leaves one individual that has to load/reload and they can't hack it, it becomes a huge problem when that round is necessary down range. As always, if the individual can handle the open the position, male/female and all other categories in the military today, have at it.

Response by Katheryn Sato made Dec 16 at 2015 8:59 AM

Katheryn Sato — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 08:59:55 -0500

I am convinced that women who are both warrior and bright should be encouraged to pursue any specialty where we might have unique talents which will add to a specialty which would be not only a value added but would allow the doubtful to admit it with grace :)

Response by PVT William Bresch made Dec 29 at 2015 9:43 AM

PVT William Bresch — Tue, 29 Dec 2015 09:43:00 -0500

Women are the most fiercest warriors in the world, they can make life and take life. and your "POINT IS" ???

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Feb 11 at 2016 10:06 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 10:06:33 -0500

Most of the more strength requiring MOS jobs should be sorted out during training. If someone not up to the task, and are assigned, it is dereliction of duty on the part of leadership.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 3:41 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:41:25 -0500

It's been a long time coming and overdue

Response by SGT Karen Scott made Feb 23 at 2016 7:07 PM

SGT Karen Scott — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 19:07:13 -0500

First clean up the attitudes that a person thinks they can rape violently, sabotage careers, health and life and will not be held accountable. Correct the ganging up on a soldier that has reported crimes. Correct all the pre-plan intentional attacks, sabotage, orchestrated harms and retaliations, just because the person is mad due to the victim reporting & reaching out for help! And allow the person that was harmed legal help that protects their rights! It will only be our demise if we keep allowing groups of only certain people to block training. If all dies and those are left they need to at least be trained! This hierarchy degrading type of mentality only encourages bias, attack on own, destruction of a person's life and will cause many others to be hurt! Soldiers that were violently attacked & raped should have received legal help that protected their rights not just the criminals and allowing many others to orchestrated great harm. Making changes, only because America wants the rape cultural to be corrected is wrong it should be about survival & staying alive! But we know there are too many that do not care!!! Legal help for soldiers & veterans to protect their rights, not just only the ones that hurt them!!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2016 11:52 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Nov 2016 11:52:02 -0500

I'm in AIT for 13F right now and we have 5 females in our battery. Not sure if this article is old or not

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Nov 28 at 2016 2:02 PM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Mon, 28 Nov 2016 14:02:28 -0500

Just because the Canadian Army has women in Field Artillery don't mean that a lot of MOS are for women, I have nothing against women, but I saying they would not be good on the battle field but I don't think the Paladin M109A6 A7 whatever it is it is not self loading yet and I'm not going to pick up a 80 to 100 lbs. SP 155 mm projectile for PVT JILL SMITH because she can't lift it in combat operations , no time for that shit during crew drill operations, you have what 30 sections to shoot TOT sometimes less. Maybe in the FDC or BN level but not on battle field, I can't she how women are RANGERs and Infantry soldiers because I'm shocked, I don't care if you crawled through ranger school theses guys go in after dark KILL MFer and get out with in a time, they don't teach you that in Ranger school, so Have fun being a Ranger and I hope you do you job well. Like I said I see the new M7777 and it looks like a beast and I have not heard of any women who of been on that yet. Call me jerk, tell the General siting in this picture I can reach on Rally Point, I been Heavy Artillery my whole 20 years from 109 to M109A1 to M109A6 with w/c3. I shot the paladin in Kuwait they way it should be fire without the amining circle using its wing man howitzer and firing on the move. Open desert for miles. So My recommendation save the ARMY and the military a lot of training dollars keep women and women office out of Field Artillery, If their already in, then re-class them to a different MOS. FA will always be for the "KING OF BATTLE" It goes back to the 1800's when MEN wore red stripes down their pant legs and they got the nick name "REGLEGS" NO women will change and GOD I hope no woman has been inducted to the Order of SAINT BARARAS.
You asked the question and I gave you a straight answer how I feel and have felt since I retired.

STEPHENS'

Response by 1SG Billye Jackson made Nov 29 at 2016 8:40 PM

1SG Billye Jackson — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 20:40:08 -0500

What I Find most Telling in all but a Few of the let them in responses is that None of them have done the JOB. Trust me when I say this , 99.999% of women can not make it in Combat Arms, and are going to get a Lot of Good Men KILLED.

Response by MAJ Jimmy Jackson made Dec 1 at 2016 1:43 PM

MAJ Jimmy Jackson — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:43:57 -0500

It's not equality until females like males have to register for the draft.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2017 2:46 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Mar 2017 02:46:43 -0500

If they can do the job, by all means... sad to say I've had some male Soldiers that couldn't!

Response by SSG Rodolfo Muriel made Mar 17 at 2017 5:37 PM

SSG Rodolfo Muriel — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 17:37:54 -0400

AND............13F (FIST) is the Finest Infantry Soldier Today!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2018 3:20 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 15:20:10 -0400

I’ve seen multiple rotations with them now and I will admit I had some preconceived notions that they dispelled. I had one female PFC from Bliss who was cornfed and strong and could out ruck most men. Just like men, some will be subpar. But in all honesty thus far it seems the ones with the intestinal fortitude to step up did so for a reason and seem to be more motivated than most of their counterparts.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Apr 10 at 2018 12:13 PM

SFC David Pope, MBA — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 12:13:56 -0400

As a former LNO with HHB 1st Corp Artillery, I worked with many women in our unit. Our battery commander at one time was a woman, and she did a remarkable job. We also had a few that did AFATDS as well. At the Corp and Brigade level 13F is a whole different job. They work in several different capacities and could use some women to fill those jobs. At that level we are more charts & darts and mission coordinators than those who call for fire.

Response by SGT Foxy Brown made Dec 12 at 2018 6:59 PM

SGT Foxy Brown — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 18:59:38 -0500

yes, I disagree, if a women was to be in male jobs than allow, allow others to decided for themselves

Response by SGT Foxy Brown made Dec 12 at 2018 7:02 PM

SGT Foxy Brown — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 19:02:33 -0500

I disagree with one women choice, if she decides to become artillery let it be her choice, don't drag other with your life decision.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Mar 16 at 2022 6:51 AM

MSG Greg Kelly — Wed, 16 Mar 2022 06:51:15 -0400

but many of them cannot lift the rounds. So now you have to show favoritism to them due to physical inability. They will only be in non-physically demanding MOS' within the Artillery branch.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 16 at 2022 11:27 AM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Wed, 16 Mar 2022 11:27:30 -0400

Yes open up all MOS to women. But the standards remain the same no gender norming. The weight of an artillery round does not adjust to the strength of the SM. The SM must adjust to the weight of the round.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2022 12:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:32:41 -0400

MSG Greg Kelly
Posted 6 h ago
but many of them cannot lift the rounds. So now you have to show favoritism to them due to physical inability. They will only be in non-physically demanding MOS' within the Artillery branch.

This is from 2015...

Women have been in artillery for a few years now...and they're doing the job.

So...yeah.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2022 9:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 21:19:25 -0400

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL Well... why not... they're doing most other military occupational specialties aren't they...

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Apr 18 at 2022 2:29 PM

SFC David Pope, MBA — Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:29:16 -0400

When I was in HHB I Corps Arty, we had several females in our unit. Our battery commander was a female at one time. The females in our unit were very capable.