Would it be a big safety concern to conduct a Battalion-sized FTX without Vehicle Recovery assets?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 14:31:24 -0500

Would it be a big safety concern to conduct a battalion size FTX with no vehicle recovery assets available? If not then how would I mitigate the risk ?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2016 2:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 14:36:46 -0500

Well with no wrecker only thing that would mitigate problems is tow bars or get support from another unit. I have done a battalion event with out a wrecker before and ended up running like 6 recoveries with tow bars. Now if a vehicle flipped or lost its suspension or axles ( LMTV or bigger) you might run into an issue and have to have the unit call a civilian tow truck. Just food for thought b

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2016 3:53 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 15:53:02 -0500

Depending on terrain and driver's training you may be able to get away without wreckers, but you should really evaluate if you can safely use towbars at a minimum.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2016 4:24 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 16:24:12 -0500

Is there a regulation stating I have to have recovery during field exercises?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2016 7:15 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 19:15:06 -0500

I would say that it is always a good idea to have some sort of recovery asset if possible. That asset could be a tow bar. However, I am partial to have a true recovery asset, i.e. a wrecker. A lot of commands tend to neglect maintenance needs, recovery especially. I would not put that on the back burner.

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Dec 4 at 2016 7:24 PM

1SG Al Brown — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 19:24:22 -0500

No, it eliminates a big future safety concern. Let your NCOs learn how to recover vehicles. Put your temporarily untasked drivers and TCs to work towing vehicles as they break or get stuck in the mud. A great example of losing your tow capability is going to the NTC in the middle of summer and watching the 88s drop like fly's. Pretty much any vehicle can tow any other like vehicle, and they do. Maybe you should conduct a BN FTX without you're recovery vehicles on purpose. I used to TC an AVLB, and during some BN FTX's did nothing but recover swamped tanks at Ft Stewart.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2016 11:51 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 23:51:20 -0500

What does the Concept of Support in the OPORD for the FTX state? Dependent upon your type of BN, the FSB, BSB, or SBDE will have recovery assets in which you may request support. You will have to link up with their S&R NCOIC to formally coordinate those assets. Like vehicle recovery is the preferred method as that is what training for combat entails. As for recovery assets themselves, a heavy BN will have M88A1/A2 for Brads and Abrams. Light BNs will use wreckers. I am used to maintenance and recovery being an afterthought so, if it's not in the OPORD, make it happen.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Dec 5 at 2016 9:19 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 09:19:06 -0500

When I was mech Infantry we always had recovery assets when we went to the field for our Brads, MATVs MAXXPROs, etc. Sure, we could do some level self-recovery (sometimes), but we always had wreckers. Today, in my Reserve trans unit, even when we leave to exercise the trucks or get fuel we have recovery capability, to include the ability to call a wrecker if needed; and certainly when we drive across the country! That may not rise to the level of a "safety concern" per se, but in planning, I can't even conceive of why you'd go to the field without recovery assets available, but all experiences vary.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 5 at 2016 2:53 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 14:53:18 -0500

Most are hitting it right about having access to recovery stuff. That said, you want to make sure that stuff actually exists and actually will show up. Nothing like the paperwork you have to do otherwise. Any good skipper will be adverse to anything that prevents all his/her people and assets from getting back to where they should be. Failure in that mode gets people fired.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2016 4:31 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 16:31:51 -0500

Safety concern? No.
Really stupid and negligent? Yes.

Risk mitigation in this instance would be to coordinate with the GSU for on-call support, and failing that any maintenance unit in the area. For them, it is good training to assist you if needed.
If they do come out and help, do them a solid and hook them up with a couple coins and/or case of beverages to thank them for their support.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Dec 5 at 2016 5:23 PM

SSG Mark Franzen — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 17:23:54 -0500

I Never left any type of recovery Equipment in rear because I always need it small or Large Field FTX take it with you. You Never depend on your equipment not break down when think that than you will be sorry that you didn't take with you.
SSG Mark Franzen
US ARMY
Former Motor Sargent
PS Any Question Ill be Glad to Help You

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2016 10:36 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 10:36:40 -0500

Yes because you never know with someone has to be Medevac to the hospital for illnesses or injuries. The fastest way to get them to the next EST hospital will be by vehicle because it would take at least 30 minutes before air medevac can leave to get to your location.

Second how would you get water, food, and other supplies to your locate? It will require coordination with other units to make that possible in the absence of uour unit vehicles.

Here are some reasons why you need vehicle recovery assets available for you BN FTX.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2016 10:19 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 22:19:39 -0500

I feel that recovery assets, if available, are a must. Why put anyone in danger, further damage equipment or simply be placed in an inconvenient situation. Safety first.

Response by CW2 Donald Kempf made Dec 28 at 2016 6:47 AM

CW2 Donald Kempf — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 06:47:28 -0500

You can, but I'd advise not to do so if you have recovery assets available. I suspect it mostly depends on the vehicles involved and their self-recovery capability. As long as you don't lose a wheel or such, one humvee can tow another. The type of terrain is another consideration. How much abuse are the vehicles going to receive? Best to plan for the worst and not use what you brought than to wich you had what you needed.

Response by CW2 Michael Mullikin made Jan 29 at 2017 3:25 AM

CW2 Michael Mullikin — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 03:25:26 -0500

Not a concern if you are confident that none vehicle operators will do anything that would require recovery. BTW, back in the Old Army (when we wore mono-chromatic "fatigues") we practiced vehicle recovery using our available assets. You may not know what adventure truly is until you've righted a tipped-over M60A1 tank using two other tanks.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 28 at 2020 11:50 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 11:50:15 -0500

Depends. How far is the training from home station? Can we walk there? Do we even need vehicles at all?

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Dec 28 at 2020 7:10 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 19:10:56 -0500

Why?
Can your FSC Commander go to the BSB and request back up Support?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 28 at 2020 9:00 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 21:00:49 -0500

I would say self recovery must be done by "competent" personnel and by the book. If either is questionable then the unit must ask for help.

I would also consider the merits of being tactical at night vs safety.

There is also danger in unknown routes or terrain.

I would probably think of reasons or risks that contribute to the need of vehicle recovery.