Would it hurt my career to go from COCOM to COCOM?

2015-11-15T06:12:14-05:00

I'm currently with AFRICOM in Stuttgart working for J2. Would it necessarily hurt my career to PCS to another COCOM such as CENTCOM next? Or would it help my career as far as progression and military professional development goes? Or would going back to a "line unit" S-2 be more important?

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 15 at 2015 9:19 AM

2015-11-15T09:19:03-05:00

Not sure what is more important to you however I would focus on professional career over military. If your looking for some freash air with EUCOM you wouldn't need to move. Personally I would avoid CENTCOM as there seems to be some senior leadership issues within that command. However moving to any regional command J-2 I think would be considered more of a lateral move. I think the next move would be with one of the intelligence agencies like DIA or NSA. Here you could transition from military to civilian and yet remain within the intelligence community.

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Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 15 at 2015 12:10 PM

2015-11-15T12:10:00-05:00

Also take a look at promotion board precepts over the past few years and get a handle on how they look at it. My experience sitting on boards is dated but I lived through the dark years of "joint is death" to "joint shall not be disadvantaged". The issue I've seen more of is similar tours can result in a gap in something else that makes up the desired pedigree. If there are 5-6 must do things, don't delay getting them punched as Cpt Murphy's Law will intervene if you work it too fine. Also consider if you'll lose touch with the important things of your MOS, i.e. hands on doing real things in the real world with your troops.

Think about the kind of paper you'll get from the second tour. About all you can get from a COCOM is "he's a great staff wonk". What you can get elsewhere is paper that directly talks about the contribution you made to primary mission success. That's the difference the "shall not be disadvantaged" piece was supposed to overcome but that only goes so far. Boards not only look at what you've done, they try to project what you'll do down the road and will you likely succeed. Silence on critical contributions and leadership stretches the betting odds, hence a dangerous place to be if you're in the third crunch.

BTW, I had 5 years with PACOM but made sure I had two lives. I was 7th Fleet Engineer a part of it and then shifted to State and USAID work in SE Asia, mostly in Cambodia. So you can get "operational" paper if you're able to get out in the real world.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2015 12:01 PM

2015-11-16T12:01:49-05:00

I don't think that it would hurt your career, but I will say that senior boards look closely at variety of assignments. It is to your advantage to seek out new challenges. But if you feel that you have found a niche where you excel, by all means do another tour at a COCOM.

Response by LTC Eric Coger made Nov 17 at 2015 4:41 AM

2015-11-17T04:41:01-05:00

It is absolutely critical to get tactical time if you want to stay in the military. Not just for the broadening, but for your own development and time with Soldiers. You aren't leading much at the COCOM or ASCC level. As a SSG you should be around Soldiers and training and leading them.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2015 8:04 AM

2015-11-17T08:04:33-05:00

My career was mostly National Guard, but I've had similar experiences, as well as counselling others. Going to another unit almost certainly won't hurt, and can help because of the perception of varied experience. But when you arrive at the new unit, you are an unknown quantity. "If he's any good, why didn't his prior unit find him a promotion opportunity?" You start from zero and have to prove you are better than your peers.

I can't tell you how many young soldiers have asked if they should go to another unit to get a promotion. And unless the promotion is coming requiring a position change (as happened to me, once) my response has always been, "Why would I put you in for a higher slot when I don't know you? You show up at my unit, and tell me you are hot, and I'm supposed to believe it?"

Promotion in the National Guard is the roughest of all services. In order to get a promotion, you have to be fully MOSQ, fully up on PT, marksmanship, etc, fully school qualified (ANCOC in your case), occupying a slot one and ONLY one grade higher than your current grade, and no double slotting permitted. If the guy in the slot you want plans to die in that slot, you are blocked.

Every promotion board I have sat on, multiple MOSs receive significant consideration. If you can get the school for an additional MOS, you have doubled your chances of promotion in whatever unit you are in. Plus it's just about the only way to pass the roadblock I mentioned above. (I retired with MOSs in Infantry, Armor, PSYOP, Intelligence, and Computer Operations, three of which got me a promotion.)

Taking responsibility for your career sets you ahead of the pack already, with so many soldiers willing to let personnel manage their careers. Keep your horizons broad and don't be hesitant about opportunities which cross your path.

Response by LTC Robert McKenna made Nov 17 at 2015 9:31 AM

2015-11-17T09:31:16-05:00

If you haven't had the opportunity to lead troops and want to stay competitive with your peers for E-7/8, then the more correct answer will be to seek out a tactical assignment where you can lead soldiers. That answer can of course take many forms beyond the "line unit S-2", from either PCSing to deploying an operational rotation (i.e. CJTF-HOA or one of the other JTF's) with your COCOM that would give you a report card which includes leading soldiers.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2015 12:46 PM

2015-11-17T12:46:08-05:00

As is the norm for almost any question in the military, it depends. You need to look at your previous assignments and NCOERs. Joint assignments are viewed as broadening assignments, even though you're still performing your primary function. You're doing so at the Strategic level. Do you have Tactical or Operational experience already? If not, you should be looking for one of those assignments. Do you have rated time in leadership positions that are consistent with your career path? It sounds like you have some based on one of your other comments. As sad as it sounds though, you could be setting yourself up to be viewed as "hiding out" in the joint world by going from one COCOM to another. You'd be hanging your hopes and dreams on your records going before a promotion board where the members would recognize that you're seeking to broaden your experience and knowledge base as an analyst by working a different AOR. It seems the recent trend for promotions is that assignments geared toward building the force (instructor, drill sergeant, recruiter) are being viewed more favorably. You may want to take a serious look into that route. You have a lot of experience now that can benefit a new generation of soldiers going through AIT. I don't know enough about you or your career to really be able to point you in the best direction, but hopefully one of the options I mentioned jumps out at you as the best course of action to pursue.

Response by SGM Thomas Adderley made Nov 18 at 2015 8:17 AM

2015-11-18T08:17:38-05:00

Never stay too long at a Hqs. Get back to the line position for a more balanced career pattern.

Response by SFC Mitchell Domm made Nov 18 at 2015 8:44 AM

2015-11-18T08:44:30-05:00

SSG Scheil, Things change over time and I don't really know the OPTEMPO for you at this time but, several things that I experienced in my 24 year career is that for NCOs it is imperative to be well rounded and have experience with Staff and Leadership time as well as serving in special duties such as recruiting/drill sergeant. Keep in contact with your branch especially Senior NCOs within your branch to seek counsel and mentorship. Professional Development is always a must. If your NCOERs are true and honest they can also be an invaluable tool in guiding you for improvement as one of the NCO Corps leadership traits is Know yourself and seek self improvement!!! Hope this helps and Thank you for your service to our great Nation!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 8:42 PM

2015-11-19T20:42:40-05:00

If you have a good relationship with your commander and he is willing to let you go. But if your are a great asset you will be waiting a long time to move on.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2015 5:01 PM

2015-11-24T17:01:09-05:00

Yes it will hurt you. Do not waste a PCS move on something that will not build you as a diverse leader. This is especially true in today's financially restrained environment.