Would the military remain efficient or even improve without officers? Keep it professional gentlemen!

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 15:39:14 -0500

Please maintain your military bearing and be respectful with any comments posted. Thank you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2014 3:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 15:55:24 -0500

I would say we could do with a lot less but overall they have a use. We could do without a lot of personnel in general. We could use the Bobs from Office Space to weed out some trash. If the army would push to better educate NCO's we could eliminate a lot of Officer jobs. Unfortunately there are too many of my peers that can't lump words together to make coherent sentences.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2014 6:18 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:18:30 -0500

In a word, no.
Officers have their job - plan, prioritize, and resource.
Enlisted personnel have theirs - train and execute.

While I have done plenty of "officer business" over the years, I'll be damned if they ever do mine. I am thankful that I have officers to deal with politics, planning, and dealing with meetings so I can accomplish the necessary tasks that make my company go. I've gone without; it is not better.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 5 at 2014 7:01 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:01:23 -0500

No.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 5 at 2014 7:47 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:47:02 -0500

I want to say that there are other militaries that have a single rank system.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Dec 5 at 2014 8:07 PM

1SG Mike Case — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 20:07:39 -0500

Not no, but hell no. What most people believe is that an officer just signs the training calendar and briefs QTB and Command and Staff slides. I wouldn't want to do my commander's job and I totally hate it when he is out of the office. I could sit here all night and list the things my commander does and I thank (inset deity here) every day that I have my commander there to do his job.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 11:46 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 11:46:07 -0500

I think one would just have to look at the NCOES to get an idea.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 11:57 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 11:57:19 -0500

As much as we poke fun at Officers, I would say no. Officers are the frontmen that handle the politics and planning aspect. NCOs are the "Backbone of the Army" meaning we make it happen, but Officers are the Unit representatives that make the necessary authorizations and planning needed for us to accomplish our mission. We all play a vital role in the mission. Although many of us have taken multiple challenges as NCOs in accomplishing a mission, the Officer is there to support us just as much as we are there to support them. I will still poke fun at the Butterbar LT on the land nav course, but I still have respect for the Officer and the role he plays in the big green machine...

Response by PO2 Jonathan Scharff made Dec 6 at 2014 2:36 PM

PO2 Jonathan Scharff — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 14:36:01 -0500

Wow! I am a little surprised by some of the answers. I guess if you ask a question like this you are going to get some people that just want to stir the pot, make jokes or the like. As an enlisted member the bulk of the officers that I served with were excellent. I really can't say that about the bulk of the enlisted corp. This whole question is a little absurd and feeds into a lot of insecurities. I'm more important that you. There is a mission, it takes a team to complete it. If you have the qualifications to move into an different position and you want the responsibility and pay that goes with it then do it. Not wanting to do that doesn't make you a lesser person or deserving of the compensation.

Response by SPC Charles Estes made Dec 7 at 2014 4:24 PM

SPC Charles Estes — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 16:24:37 -0500

I say no because, sad as the fact is, we have the occasional incompetent crop up, both in the officer and NCO corps. A good senior NCO or a good officer can minimize the damage done by the incompetents while the system weeds them out.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Dec 7 at 2014 4:46 PM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 16:46:33 -0500

For me i look at it like this Enlisted are SME in there specific rating/MOS. Where a Officer has to organize and figure out the resources and over see what is getting done. I know there is more then that to what an officer does just don't really know for sure.

Response by BG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 8:12 AM

BG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 08:12:36 -0500

Regardless of whether there were officers, someone would step in to fill that policy making role - it is just human nature. If we took a bunch of E-1's and isolated them, you could come back in a few weeks and find someone acting as the officer and several as varying levels of NCO. Try reading "Lord of the Flies" for an excellent literary example.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Dec 8 at 2014 10:40 AM

LTC Stephen C. — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 10:40:07 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, no.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 2:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 14:10:06 -0500

The days that I had to go to the multiple meetings an officer has to go were the days that I said thanks to my officers when they came back from wherever they were, so at the very least we need officers for command & staff, training meetings, ipr's, etc

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Dec 8 at 2014 3:17 PM

LTC Paul Heinlein — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 15:17:55 -0500

The answer is simple, no.

The appointment of Officers by the President to lead the Military is based upon the US Constitution.

That is why Officers are commissioned/ appointed and those commissions/ appointments must be confirmed by the Senate.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 4:55 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 16:55:14 -0500

The primary reason behind this post is due to the pay gap between officers and enlisted Soldiers, in particularly with CSM (E-9) pay. Of course senior, field grade officers in command are responsible for vast amounts of troops, property, etc. It just seems that having specific senior enlisted pay grades that could fill certain levels of officer grade positions would save the government billions of dollars if not more. These enlisted ranks would obviously have to complete the same training that officers currently do. An option for filling flag officer level positions would be an extended pay grade level of E-10 that compared to the years of service and knowledge needed for such a level of responsibility. I completely understand the current command and control system with officers issuing the tasks they want accomplished, the "what" and the NCOs making it happen, the "how" by using assigned Soldiers. The thought that an enlisted member in any service is incapable of performing any officers job (with the same level of training) is ridiculous. This is the reason for the divide in officers vs. enlisted. We are different in many ways including current roles and responsibilities. BOTH sides of the pay scale have great and poor leaders, but in the end we are all Soldiers that bleed the same and neither is better than the other.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Oct 13 at 2015 2:59 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:59:20 -0400

The military is lead by humans, so a human would replace an officer and those humans will do the same thing officers do which means the same thing happens, nothing changes just the title.

Response by CPT Russell Pitre made Oct 14 at 2015 11:04 PM

CPT Russell Pitre — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 23:04:48 -0400

I don't even what to know what made you think of something as vacuous as this. This is like Ricky Bobby telling off someone then saying "With all due respect." It doesn't work that way. I am surprised that an SFC would ask this. Maybe we should ask if the Army have have the same DWI's or less without enlisted? That is about the quality of a question. Or you could ask any civilian company if they could do what they do without any management.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2015 11:44 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 23:44:07 -0400

How far were you thinking of going with this? If someone is starting out as an officer and taking a command? Yes They are mostly learning how things go, but they chose to stand as the main target when political BS comes charging down the hill at everyone. Could they be better leaders if they started out an enlisted? Maybe but not always, I have seen a few prior enlisted that can not think their way out of a paper bag. The Academy is supposed to help them with that. We also have to keep in mind that many of the decisions that we see do not always come from where we think they do. Between regulations and the higher ups that they answer to many times they are told what to do. Also a mind that is not used to a task can come up with new ways of doing things and will not fall in to the trap of "We have always done it this way." as easily. The Senior Enlisted is there to explain when we have to do it that way and why. New Airmen/Sailors/Solders/Marines are far less likely to come up to an E9 and ask a silly question.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2015 11:41 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Oct 2015 23:41:44 -0400

One word ; NO.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2015 3:02 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:02:54 -0400

No plain and simple, enlisted ranks are full of people who would go power crazy and people( soldiers, sailors, airman) would die. I know for a fact that officers are a necessary check and without them or when they choose not to delegate or allow senior enlisted to operate within the CO's power than enlisted operations are made to struggle and suffer. As well as menta Heath problems spike.

Response by SSG Travis Puckett made Feb 4 at 2016 6:00 AM

SSG Travis Puckett — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 06:00:27 -0500

I've never had a mission where an Officer was essential to mission success. I relieved that week could be just as effective with a First Sergeant as we can with a company commander or command Sergeant major then a battalion commander. Nancy I can write up an operator and do it justice proficiently is an officer or plant training days or unit movement. it's the non commissioned officer that carries out the mission anyway so as long as the non commissioned officer knows how to read and write have common sense they can do the job of a commissioned officer. In my opinion.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 4 at 2016 12:20 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 12:20:46 -0500

You will have to plus up the NCO Corps.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Feb 4 at 2016 3:53 PM

SSG Audwin Scott — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:53:15 -0500

No it wouldn't

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 3:53 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 15:53:21 -0500

No. Officers fill a command role that is spelled out in our Constitution. Besides, somebody would have to do the job, and I enjoy being a NCO.

Response by SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury made Feb 4 at 2016 4:07 PM

SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 16:07:56 -0500

Each has their function - officers implement the vision and mission, senior enlisted lead the juniors in aligning to the mission/vision and track the other things, such as training, readiness, unit preparations. Both work in sync, and the better they do - the better the unit.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 9:03 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:03:22 -0500

The military would not improve without officers, and would probably turn into a mess. Someone has to be in charge, and officers are trained for the job.

Response by CPO David Sharp made Feb 10 at 2016 9:56 AM

CPO David Sharp — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 09:56:40 -0500

Officers, in my opinion, are the upper management of the Military. Budget, overview of readiness and the like. The Senior NCOs are the "Deck Plate Leaders" which advise and give feedback support to the Officers. They implement the programs and conduct/guide Subordinates to successfully attain skills and needed knowledge which the Command requires for effective tactical readiness and unit cohesion. So I feel a team of good, professional and committed Officers and Senior NCOs is what defines any Command.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2016 9:29 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Feb 2016 21:29:21 -0500

Trust me you don't want to do what we do. My eyeballs feel like they're bleeding after my daily dose of OPORDs, awards writing, meeting slides and various other paper shuffling hell. I'm also signed for 30 million in property.

If you want a piece of this action go to OCS.

Response by SPC Ron Hines made May 26 at 2016 11:42 PM

SPC Ron Hines — Thu, 26 May 2016 23:42:03 -0400

Doubt it

Response by SrA Russ Boykins made Jun 1 at 2016 4:00 PM

SrA Russ Boykins — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 16:00:58 -0400

I'm going to agree with BG doesn't matter if you have them or not someone will step in and have to drink coffee and make rules.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jul 22 at 2018 12:50 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 00:50:49 -0400

The rank structure has a purpose and without it there would be chaos, someone still has to lead and make high level decisions which filter down to others that can take care of individual or small group details that fit into the bigger picture. Order still has to be maintained and have clear channels of command, nothing else has ever worked well and history has already proved that. There can be no hesitation with lawful orders that are given, that delay can have a very big cost. Mutual respect can still be maintained and if any level of the structure looses that focus things will break down and not work very well. Take pride in that salute to Your senior Officers to show that respect and the return salute should be the same to show the respect is mutual. Officers, Warrant Officers or enlisted Members are all brothers and sisters but someone still has to be in charge.

Response by SSG George Holtje made Sep 4 at 2020 12:26 AM

SSG George Holtje — Fri, 04 Sep 2020 00:26:20 -0400

No!!!
Its this simple
Officers let the NCOs do their jobs
NCOs let the Officers do their jobs
Senior NCOs there is a time and place to discuss a jr NCO shortcomings. Its called an AFTER ACTION REVIEW.
The label SHITBAG does not apply to everyone who makes a mistake and does not have a 320+ APFT average.
Micro management only need apply to E3 and below and not because you're bored.

Officers are needed to coordinate the small picture into big picture.
SNCOs are needed to advise and assist and direct so that small picture blends into that big picture.
JR NCOs lead and direct that small picture and do not require the entire Chain of Command to bound a fire team over a thousand meters to secure and empty building without receiving hostile fire in the middle of a clear day(yes, I've seen that happen)