Would the United States benefit by creating a Veteran Legion similar to the French Foreign Legion in fighting proxy wars around the globe?

2018-03-06T01:41:16-05:00

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2018 1:46 AM

2018-03-06T01:46:58-05:00

Even with a legion, there is no distance between the military actions of the "US Legion" and the diplomatic impacts of those actions. The US couldn't employ them and distance itself. The Legion is still a part of the French war machine and is tied to them. It's an interesting concept for a couple of other reasons including paths to citizenship, but using them specifically on foreign soil while distancing our primary branches of service from these missions is questionable in my opinion.

Response by TSgt David L. made Mar 6 at 2018 2:15 AM

2018-03-06T02:15:15-05:00

I'd like to say yes, but I kind of side with COL Private RallyPoint Member. We might as well just add to the CIA's "Army" so we can have some deniability. I like the idea though. Plenty of guys would give up contracting to "sign up"!

Response by SSG Will Phillips made Mar 6 at 2018 2:22 AM

2018-03-06T02:22:49-05:00

The alphabet agencies already have civilian contractors ready to do the same thing with "Plausible Deniability". Just saying.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 6 at 2018 2:46 AM

2018-03-06T02:46:25-05:00

I perceive why younasknthe questionz, however, what happened using those contractors, and all their associated problems leads me to have real reservations...also, the French and Spanish Legions were created in different periods in history, look up the Spanish one, also, there are numerous YouTuvenversions in both, plus, societally, I dont think he US would sociologically stand for such a force, plus, the French Foreign Legion is all male, as is, I think, the Spanish Legion, I think that whole thing opens a whole kettle ofmworms and a Pandora's Box best left shut, quite honestly, I realize I might be disagreed with, however, those are my thoughts, such as they are....

Response by 1stSgt Nelson Kerr made Mar 6 at 2018 6:03 AM

2018-03-06T06:03:16-05:00

Why bother it is just a more expensive way to supplement what we already have. The reason the French created theLegion was to have troops w that were basically disposable, and that is not our style.

Response by Susan Foster made Mar 6 at 2018 7:41 AM

2018-03-06T07:41:40-05:00

Is that different from what we have now?

Response by SGT David T. made Mar 6 at 2018 8:42 AM

2018-03-06T08:42:08-05:00

I think you misunderstand what the French Legion actually is. They are an elite group that is part of their military. They are controlled by and accountable to their government and international law just like their regular forces are. That being said, we have no need for it. We already let non citizens join and they are integrated into our units. What value would there be in segregating them?

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2018 9:02 AM

2018-03-06T09:02:06-05:00

I won't repeat the wise thoughts of people with much more experience than my own...but I agree with their assertions. If I were to hazard an opinion, I would suggest that we may have become overly reliant on such strategies and tactics. History has shown that even the best trained, most capable warfighters can be overrun by superior numbers of even inferior forces. Perhaps, and I'm open to correction if my relative ignorance is showing, we should consider bringing larger forces to bear when it counts, and managing the public, political and ethical risks beforehand. If there's a threat (ISIS for example) that national authority deems worth defeating...shouldn't the non-conventional operations (which, as I understand it, have their own impetus and purpose) be fully supported by the weight of massed conventional ground forces, artillery, CAS, and other assets? It often seems (to those of us not privy to the "real story") that we hold something back, or at least fail to properly coordinate the assets we have at our disposal.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 6 at 2018 9:41 AM

2018-03-06T09:41:23-05:00

Been done, used to be called Blackwater

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 6 at 2018 11:23 AM

2018-03-06T11:23:58-05:00

Please- I have worked with the FFL before- they always got the crappy pointed end of the stick. Their hands like us are tied up be the government- way too often they are considered expendable- after all they aren't really French till their hitch is up. Most of the time their officers are French Army and not FFL, and it shows when they throw the out with no life line. Who would control this Vet Legion- what will you use- we have a hard time keeping our armed forces gunned up- Right now almost 50% of our Aircraft and ships are down for parts, manning. The JCS has said we can not longer support a sustained war in to different parts of the world.

Response by MSgt Gerald Orvis made Mar 6 at 2018 2:23 PM

2018-03-06T14:23:01-05:00

I'm not sure this could be done today - where would the FL's recruits come from? I'm sure the Armed Forces wouldn't like the competition for recruits. Empty the prisons, send them overseas and keep them there until needed? I'm not sure there is a DI who could handle that lot, much less make it into an effective fighting force. And once into a fight, would the U.S. government be prepared to answer for what these guys might do?? So, an interesting idea, but no. Instead, use the resources to beef up the U.S. Marine Corps, give them much-needed amphib shipping and bombardment ships.

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 6 at 2018 2:33 PM

2018-03-06T14:33:12-05:00

I'd rather see us spend our money in ways that sow goodwill rather than contempt but that is wishful thinking. Have you taking a look at the number of contractors to military personnel - seems we are already there.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R44116.pdf

R44116.pdf

Response by Sgt Jeffrey Warner made Mar 6 at 2018 3:30 PM

2018-03-06T15:30:59-05:00

Never.

Response by PO2 Peter Klein made Mar 6 at 2018 3:38 PM

2018-03-06T15:38:22-05:00

So we can get into more armed conflicts even easier? No

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 6 at 2018 3:40 PM

2018-03-06T15:40:31-05:00

One of our military problems is not knowing how to change the direction and will of the opposing people.

Response by LTC Thomas Tennant made Mar 6 at 2018 4:05 PM

2018-03-06T16:05:47-05:00

Not really. The big benefit of the French Foreign Legion was and is French citizenship at the end of the first enlistment. We simply have to adjust our enlistments to allow for that. We have done it in the past, why not continue the policy?

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Mar 6 at 2018 4:45 PM

2018-03-06T16:45:33-05:00

Naw. Why submit more people to mando training, multiple uniform changes, Gen Order no1, and the VA? Haven't we suffered enough? Although if implemented like the Foreign Legion, it would offer a pathway to citizenship....kinda like how it's supposed to now?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2018 5:10 PM

2018-03-06T17:10:16-05:00

yes, and if an organization existed I would definitely join.

Response by 1SG Klayton W. Hayes made Mar 6 at 2018 7:54 PM

2018-03-06T19:54:58-05:00

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Mar 6 at 2018 10:47 PM

2018-03-06T22:47:41-05:00

The FFL was originally created to solve multiple problems: manage migration into Metropolitan France, go fight colonial wars and protect French interests. Successful service and completing your 5 year enlistment guaranteed French citizenship and a clean slate.

US Veterans are for the most part, citizens. There is no slate to clear. If you have a bad record or a bad paper discharge, not sure we want to take that liability.

As others have said, not sure there is any plausible deniability of having a bunch of DD214 wielding Veterans in some armed military or paramilitary organization. Love the idea, just doesn't meet the intent of a secretive organization. The FFL was not really a special operations type organization until after the Second World War.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Mar 6 at 2018 11:07 PM

2018-03-06T23:07:33-05:00

An interesting question. I see you've already garnered a couple of rational responses. I think that it would be interesting to research why the French created theirs and, if we have a similar situation and the French Foreign Legion well served that need, then you might have an argument for establishing an American version

Response by Eric Lund made Mar 7 at 2018 9:55 AM

2018-03-07T09:55:39-05:00

We already have that. They are called privet military contractors. Enlist at Northbridge Group Services today!

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 7 at 2018 10:43 AM

2018-03-07T10:43:38-05:00

The Legion tried to overthrow the French Government and seized control of Algeria.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Mar 7 at 2018 11:22 AM

2018-03-07T11:22:20-05:00

I think it would be good for our homeland only in support of our military serving around the globe, it can help better secure and decrease whatever is going on here.

Response by SGT Jim Arnold made Mar 7 at 2018 12:10 PM

2018-03-07T12:10:08-05:00

I was always under the impression the FFL was a way for someone to hide from the law and come away with a new identity after time served. The french would give you citizenship by doing it's bidding if you survive

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 7 at 2018 1:53 PM

2018-03-07T13:53:33-05:00

Overweight and diabetic they waddle into action

Response by COL Col George Lind made Mar 7 at 2018 8:07 PM

2018-03-07T20:07:21-05:00

Not needed!

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Mar 7 at 2018 10:34 PM

2018-03-07T22:34:10-05:00

Isn’t that exactly what Blackwater & other contractors are doing?

Maybe, if i may be so bold, it could be used as a path to citizenship as (i believe) the French Foreign Legion is.

Response by Sgt Jeffrey Warner made Mar 8 at 2018 1:16 AM

2018-03-08T01:16:18-05:00

We should not become involved in proxy wars. The French attempted to influence foreign nations in this manner, and they were not successful. It is actually an attempt to establish a form of government with an appointed leader, not a democracy. Just look at what we did in Vietnam, and are doing in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
It does not work.

Response by Capt Christian D. Orr made Mar 13 at 2018 4:23 PM

2018-03-13T16:23:45-04:00

Sounds like fun from a fictional book or movie plotline perspective, but in reality, it'd be more trouble than it's worth.

Response by CMSgt David Allen made Mar 19 at 2018 3:49 PM

2018-03-19T15:49:44-04:00

OGMAB

Response by SSG Guy Gould made Mar 22 at 2018 5:59 PM

2018-03-22T17:59:22-04:00

There are so many things that veterans could do besides sit on our asses like we do now. There really isn’t anything good going for us out there. If there were, less of us would trying to kill ourselves and actually have a purpose in life. I go to college just to get paid to go to college and have something that “must” be done and the VA fucks that up by giving you an education debt. We can’t win. Either no one will hire us or we’re unable to perform a job that is open. I’ll be honest. I’m not getting off the couch for less than $60,000 and that’s not really asking a lot considering that I don’t require any benefits. I can operate all kinds of heavy equipment. Did anyone want me to volunteer to do work after the hurricanes? Hell no. I would say create a veteran legion to do things like that.

Response by Capt Wayne Lachmann made Mar 22 at 2018 11:25 PM

2018-03-22T23:25:13-04:00

We have one; it is called the Marine Corps!

Response by SPC Greg Krantz made Mar 25 at 2018 2:50 AM

2018-03-25T02:50:10-04:00

I think it would be a great idea to have our veterans defend right here at home from enemies foreign and especially domestic.

Response by SPC Greg Krantz made Mar 25 at 2018 2:58 AM

2018-03-25T02:58:12-04:00

I think our veterans should defend right here at home from enemies foreign and especially domestic. I think we should organize and be directed within our own ranks so there is 0% government control but listen to what our government leaders have to say but ultimately our own elected leaders will have the final word from within our U.S Veterans United Army

Response by SrA Tony Webb made Mar 26 at 2018 2:02 AM

2018-03-26T02:02:33-04:00

Proxy war:a war instigated by a major power that does not itself become involved. By using US citizens the US is, in fact, involved and thus it is no longer a proxy war. The French Foreign Legion is an arm of the French government and, therefore, represents France. It may be deployed by the French president without permission of Parliament, just as the President of the US has some limited power to deploy our troops in an emergency, but responsibility for any act of the Legion would be squarely upon the shoulders of the French government. I think MSgt. Walther's reference to utilization of SF troops in FID is probably the closest we can realistically come to war by proxy, as I believe that it is a violation of US law to use mercenary troops. This being said, the CIA's SAD/SOG unit has been known to blur this line in more ways than one, but that is an intelligence matter & not military. Realistically speaking, the vast majority of the approximately 18 million veterans in the US are out of the service now because they feel they have done their duty and no longer feel the need to serve, although I feel relatively certain that, if the need arose, very few would hesitate to take up arms again and fight for their country. I have met WWII vets in their 90's who would pick up a rifle even now, if our country needed them. I think that a more practical and viable idea would be a "Veteran's Corps". An organized volunteer network of veterans who could be called upon in emergencies to serve as reserve personnel during disasters and national emergencies, assisting the military by providing additional manpower here in the US. There is a prototypical organization in Cary, NC called the "United States Veteran's Corps", which provides services to veterans and first responders, and has deployed several times in support of peacetime military emergency assistance. Founded by Andy Ladner, a SF veteran, the United States Veteran's Corps ( http://www.myusvc.com ) is a model organization of how to utilize the vast experience and resources available in the veteran community, and shows the incredible willingness of those who served to give even more of themselves.

United States Veteran Corps: Cary, NC

We are a Corps of Military Veterans performing

Response by SrA Tony Webb made Mar 26 at 2018 2:05 AM

2018-03-26T02:05:26-04:00

Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young.

Response by COL Rich McKinney made Mar 29 at 2018 11:55 AM

2018-03-29T11:55:05-04:00

The basic purpose of the FFL is that they are NOT Frenchmen, and so Frenchmen do not give a rat if non-Frenchmen get killed. Let that sink in for a minute and you will see lots of flaws with this plan.

Response by 1SG Dave Carello made Mar 29 at 2018 12:37 PM

2018-03-29T12:37:16-04:00

I hate to say this, but, with the increase in anti Americanism and liberal socialism in America today. We may be needing Veterans to form militias and FIGHT HERE!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 4:38 PM

2018-03-29T16:38:15-04:00

Would they get VA benefits? Compensation after service if hurt can be problematic.

Response by SSgt Warren Henthorn made Mar 31 at 2018 8:36 PM

2018-03-31T20:36:54-04:00

We already have such outfits, blackwater, ect.

Response by Cpl John M Dutrow made Apr 1 at 2018 11:01 AM

2018-04-01T11:01:57-04:00

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 2:11 PM

2018-04-04T14:11:52-04:00

It's a 'nice' idea but no, we shouldn't: frankly, we're too old. On the other hand I think that we should've already HAD an "American Foreign Legion" have it be a 'path' to Citizenship for illegal aliens who are facing deportation and other foreigners who want to serve. "Okay, [Hans, Sergei, Juan] here's your choice: serve 4-6 years in our military, earn your citizenship, or go home!"

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Apr 8 at 2018 7:15 PM

2018-04-08T19:15:10-04:00

No I think it works best the way it is

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2018 2:20 PM

2018-04-11T14:20:05-04:00

Yes the USA would need a force to fight small wars an upsets in the world tobay.Get the idea of a US legion just like French, I have wrote papers on the idea on the force.

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Apr 17 at 2018 11:43 AM

2018-04-17T11:43:10-04:00

We already have this, they are call contractors with Triple Canopy and whatever it is Blackwater calls itself these days. These are the next evolution, since corporations are the ones with interests in foreign countries, let them pay to go after their interests because corporate profits are not in the best interest of the United States. The US military has provided free service for too long.

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Apr 22 at 2018 7:02 AM

2018-04-22T07:02:50-04:00

While a good idea, perhaps for permanent residents who wish to shorten the time to get US citizenship a clause in their contract could include getting citizenship after X AMOUNT OF TIME in the military

Response by SSgt David Marks made Apr 22 at 2018 7:09 AM

2018-04-22T07:09:26-04:00

We already have Special Forces on the Army, Navy, and Air Force, that are better trained than the French Foreign Legion. Besides the French Foreign Legion use to be manned by people that were trying to escape their past. Who mans the French Foreign Legion today I don't know.

Response by PO3 Chris Russo made Apr 25 at 2018 7:18 PM

2018-04-25T19:18:56-04:00

I'd join up.

Response by SSgt Al Benelli made Apr 26 at 2018 1:34 PM

2018-04-26T13:34:21-04:00

Yes, I believe so... Some of us "old soldiers" would love the opportunity to represent the interest of the USA both home and abroad. Perhaps along the borders...

Response by CPL Donnie Clark made May 17 at 2018 8:43 PM

2018-05-17T20:43:06-04:00

I am a disabled vet-Cpl. I think that we should consider this idea. Many vets would be willing. I am! Even tho I know I can't anymore. I served in Korea. We where always on alert. So, you see I do know things. I also was a instructer when I was at Ft. Kox.

Response by Maj Larry Carmon made May 18 at 2018 10:58 AM

2018-05-18T10:58:25-04:00

We have one, U. S. Marine Corps.

Response by SPC Robert Steffen made May 20 at 2018 11:11 AM

2018-05-20T11:11:11-04:00

It's an interesting idea, but that's about as far as it goes. The last time any thing like that was done was the AVG in WW2. And it's success is still being debated.

Response by Capt Ray S. O. made May 25 at 2018 11:58 AM

2018-05-25T11:58:16-04:00

There really does need to be some form of Military Service that is tough, mean and hard that will go anywhere to fight anyone - yet also be a route to rejuvenation for its members. The regular Army used to be that back in the Day of the Draft. I served with many Soldiers who had been given the choice of Jail or the Army, and of course back then, you got Drafted whether you had finished High School or was just a Meathead. Yet many of these from both categories turned out to be adequate to fine Soldiers. One of the best young Sergeants I ever worked with had been a thug and pimp in New Orleans. Told it was either Prison or the Army for him by a Judge, he picked the latter and shipped in. He made it quite clear that the Army had saved him, given him good rules to live by and a direction to follow, and that he was never going to get out as long as he lived. He had found a home. The French Foreign Legion gave many a ruffian a chance to re-invent himself as a worthwhile person and Soldier. America uses its Military for every kind of PC Social Engineering Idea that come down the Pike. Why not this...?

Response by COL Kevin Scott made May 25 at 2018 6:15 PM

2018-05-25T18:15:47-04:00

I dont think this would be a good idea. A bunch of 60 something old nasty Army vets would lay waste to anyone in their path! Were do I sign up!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2018 6:19 PM

2018-05-25T18:19:03-04:00

It would be a competing organization for finite resources that are better used for the military we already have. The reason why the french still have the FFL is because of an archaic law surrounding the number of "French" soldiers who can be deployed outside of the country. The FFL was created to skirt around that issue, much like how we overuse contractors to fill jobs.

Response by SGM Jeffrey Hall made May 25 at 2018 6:31 PM

2018-05-25T18:31:48-04:00

Though this idea is interesting, I don't see it as practical in the way that the French manage their Foreign Legion. However, I could see it as a route by which someone could become a US citizen. If someone wanted to become a citizen but didn't have a skill that our country needs, why not allow them to sign up at an embassy or consulate, to serve in some sort of Foreign Legion. The US Military runs training programs in a number of foreign countries, so route them thru there and then uniform them and treat them as we do KATUSAs.

The new "legionnaire" would then swear his allegiance and demonstrate his sincerity thru service to an adopted nation. At the end of the contract, the "legionnaire" would speak English and be able to be absorbed into our society. This really is a fascinating idea.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jun 2 at 2018 11:30 AM

2018-06-02T11:30:01-04:00

I feel it might benefit for the US to have a Veteran Legion. But here is the real question. Would American veterans be the sole legionaires? The French Foreign Legion is made up of non french citizens. Usually these men are younger, speak french fluently and serve only outside of France. Many American vets say they would serve again, after either leaving the military, once their enlistment was up or their retirement has gotten boring. It would probably be great for those homeless vets, who are still young and able enough to serve again. But there would always be a politician who'd have a platform to run on,gainst a Veteran Legion for some reason or other.

Response by SrA Daniel Hunter made Jun 5 at 2018 9:36 PM

2018-06-05T21:36:30-04:00

A bunch of crazy old vets (self included) armed, in a foreign country..what could go wrong? lol