Would we be at each other's political throats if government was as limited as described in the Constitution?

CPT Jack Durish — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 20:48:14 -0500

I have accumulated more than 1,000,000 points on RP "discussing" politics. People have "blocked" me. They've voted me down. What's with that? Why is there so much rancor? So much anger? So much passion? Could it be because government has intruded too deeply into our lives? Would we really care as much if government merely did the basics: Provide for the common defense, etc?

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jan 29 at 2017 8:49 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 20:49:20 -0500

Probably not CPT Jack Durish. It has been a long time since the US government actually had a relationship within the three Federal Branches of government and the states which met the constitutional guidelines and mandates.
I am sorry that people have been blocking you and down-voting you. I have been down-voted a number of times. I always find your responses and comments to be well-reasoned.
How about showing some support for Capt Jack.
COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Capt Christopher Mueller Capt Seid Waddell CW5 Private RallyPoint Member SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SSgt Private RallyPoint Member SGT Private RallyPoint Member SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT John " Mac " McConnell SGT Robert George SPC Private RallyPoint Member SrA Christopher Wright SSgt Robert Marx] TSgt Joe C. Maj Marty Hogan PO2 Ed C.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2017 8:49 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 20:49:52 -0500

We would always find something to bicker about- it is human nature. Plus I like discussing and debating with you, so no worries about me blocking

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2017 8:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 20:50:12 -0500

and never to vote down -

Response by GySgt Melissa Gravila made Jan 29 at 2017 9:08 PM

GySgt Melissa Gravila — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 21:08:34 -0500

CPT Jack Durish- I have no reason whatsoever to block you- shoot I always agree with you! I've said it before and I will say it again, IMO government needs to follow the letter of the law, not their version of it to suit their needs at the time. When people are allowed to bend the law, it gets warped out of shape, then it expands way out of its original design.
Just my $.02 and I owe you a thumbs up

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jan 29 at 2017 9:11 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 21:11:57 -0500

Probably not, CPT Jack Durish. Here's a thought for you, though. One of the points that has been made (or not) in previous discussions was the general mindset of U.S citizens up to and through the War Between the States. It's been postulated that many saw their state as the entity to which they owed their allegiance and simply seceded because they followed their state first and foremost. I think that was Robert E. Lee's ultimate deciding factor.
Do you think that mindset could again prevail if the federal government's role was so significantly diminished?
(Paradoxical question coming from me, I know, because I believe that Big Brother is already too intrusive, but there it is!)

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2017 9:12 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 21:12:35 -0500

Some people are very stubborn and have bad upbringing, I'm thinking that's part of the issue

Response by LTC David Brown made Jan 29 at 2017 9:21 PM

LTC David Brown — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 21:21:05 -0500

Rarely if ever down vote and never block. Fire way, I've been wrong before and will be wrong again, but I do enjoy the give and take. I do agree with Sgt Cornell Wallace.

Response by A1C Cathy Valentine made Jan 29 at 2017 9:26 PM

A1C Cathy Valentine — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 21:26:20 -0500

I'm so disgusted that the US Constitution is up for interpretation.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2017 9:48 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 21:48:00 -0500

Subconsciously most people don't know why they are angry about political discourse. Personally, I believe, they (our political opponents) are afraid of real introspection and/or they are afraid that holding an unpopular view which is not seen as politically correct will ostracize them from a growing collective. Our brains cannot hold opposing views without some mental anguish. Cliche maybe, but Orwell's 1984 is surprisingly becoming reality.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2017 9:52 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 21:52:35 -0500

Sadly, I don't think so, and here's why. No matter what the government does.....no matter how transparent it could be.......no matter how accommodating it could be....or restrictive, secretive, etc.......No one will be happy with the way the government works. Because there are those people that HAVE to have something to complain about. They HAVE to have something to protest. Even if you had them list all their demands and wants that they would like to see the government do......and even if the government DID all those things, they would still complain. Some people just CAN NOT be happy and feel that everyone should be miserable along with them.

Response by SGT Edward Wilcox made Jan 29 at 2017 10:00 PM

SGT Edward Wilcox — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 22:00:59 -0500

Trust me, CPT Jack Durish, There are many reasons to block you, none of them have anything to do with the paranoid view that government has intruded too deeply into our lives.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jan 29 at 2017 10:28 PM

LTC John Shaw — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 22:28:51 -0500

The concept of a limited federal government is lost. I believe that the concepts of civics and self-reliance have deliberately been taken out of the educational system to cause dependency.
Most people don't think critically or look to the foundational documents that clearly state we are a constitutional republic of limited powers.
People are willing to give up their freedom for convenience and security.
We are almost at the point of no return, so much debt that no amount of future production can prevent the crush of government on the US and the world.
Citizens will give up a majority of their income to government people who dont care but control access to mediocre or non-existent promised services.
Our guilability and dependency as a population makes me sad.

Response by SFC Richard Logue made Jan 29 at 2017 11:42 PM

SFC Richard Logue — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 23:42:28 -0500

Heres a thought... If Switzerland can have direct democracy, i.e. go online and vote on spending bills like the recent request to purchase fighter jets, that they voted down, then why in gods green earth can't we? We pay bills online, bank online. Kick those folks out of congress except those needed to write the bills in common sense language. If you can have digital currency then why not direct democracy? Just saying

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jan 30 at 2017 12:58 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 00:58:38 -0500

We have become a deply divided nation with mutually exclusive ideas; some want the individual to control the government and some want the government to control the people. Going back to limited government as put forth in the Constitution would only please those that want the people to control the government.

We have too many issues in which no compromise is possible because the sides want different things. For instance, there is no possible compromise on abortion; either one believes in the right to kill one's inconvenient children or one does not. Compromise by merely maiming the child but letting it live would satisfy neither side.

Individual responsibility and religious freedom are other areas in which no compromise is possible.

Until one side or the other prevails we will have this strife in our body politic.

Response by PFC Jim Wheeler made Jan 30 at 2017 1:53 AM

PFC Jim Wheeler — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 01:53:34 -0500

We likely still would. For most people, the changing of power from one party to the other, in our government, is not going to make a lot of difference in their lives. State and city elections have a much larger impact on individual households. However, you never really see full scale arguments over gubernatorial or mayoral elections.

Honestly, if the campaign trails were not so publicized we likely wouldn't see the divisiveness we see every election cycle.

It's not the federal overreach that causes it, its the purposefully divisive rhetoric that each side uses to motivate their followers to vote.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Jan 30 at 2017 5:54 AM

SPC Kevin Ford — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 05:54:55 -0500

We like to debate about things, particularly politics. I don't think changing the size of our government would alter that.

You're an interesting guy and I don't block anyone regardless of if I agree with them or not. We don't learn anything by only talking with people who agree with us.

Response by SSG Edward Messervy made Jan 30 at 2017 7:12 AM

SSG Edward Messervy — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 07:12:32 -0500

We need smaller government. We are forced to do as government says not as they do. What's up with that? We elected our officials, if they are pushing there thoughts and beliefs on to us. They need to be replaced. Fire all the ones who have been there for more than eight years. Let's see what type of change will come.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Jan 30 at 2017 7:32 AM

SGT Tony Clifford — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 07:32:18 -0500

Well, that's the thing, no one that identifies as Republican or Democrat truly want a smaller government. They merely disagree about what to expand. I don't think that it would matter because 200 years ago people were just a spite filled as they are now. Just look at some of the history. Jackson killed a reporter in a duel for writing about his wife, congressmen would get into fist fights, and the vice president murdered the secretary of the treasury in a duel. The real reason you get voted down is that you are not actually having conversations. Most people have already decided beforehand as to which side they're on and no amount of words can change their opinion. The people who are voting you up are the ones that already agree with you and are looking for others that confirm that they are not alone in their beliefs. The people who down vote and especially the ones that flag posts are trying to silence desenting opinions. This is not just a left thing as many on the right do it too. People just want to be told that their beliefs are right and the idea that their beliefs are not shared by all is taken as an insult.

Response by SFC Thomas Holcomb made Jan 30 at 2017 7:59 AM

SFC Thomas Holcomb — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 07:59:03 -0500

Yes military especially ever meet a Joe that does not piss and moan. About something.

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made Jan 30 at 2017 8:16 AM

PO2 Kevin LaCroix — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:16:28 -0500

I do not block people, on any forum I am on. To me that would make me a hipocrite(sp). If I find someone to be little more than a troll, I just ignore them. While I have not agreed with some of what you have written, I generaly find you well thought out.

Response by SGT David T. made Jan 30 at 2017 8:29 AM

SGT David T. — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:29:21 -0500

The government is limited to what is in the Constitution. However, what that actually means is up for interpretation. When we strip away all the smoke and mirrors, one question remains. What is the role of the central government? The problem with that question is that it greatly depends on one's point of view. We have been struggling with this question since the very beginning. It does not appear as though it will go away anytime soon.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jan 30 at 2017 8:36 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:36:51 -0500

Yes, we would still be at each other's throats. The sad reality is most people can't stand when someone disagrees with them. To disagree with someone is to tell them there is something wrong with them and they can't stand it.

So even with a limited government, if you said something that is potentially a hot button item like "I don't believe in abortion", you can almost guarantee people will come out of the woodwork to throw their opinions at you.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jan 30 at 2017 9:04 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:04:02 -0500

I'd say nothing would be different. Government was less omnipresent and intrusive in the lives of Americans back the 1860s. Safe to say the rancor was a smidge worse then.

Response by SGT Anna Kleinschmidt made Jan 30 at 2017 9:04 AM

SGT Anna Kleinschmidt — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:04:43 -0500

I disagree with down voting and blocking. The government works best when there is a group of minds with various ideas that come together to debate and compromise so that one group does not seize power. That is my current problem and has been for a while. The compromise in our government has stopped. It has brought it to a stalemate and brought division in our country. As far as goverment regulating certain areas of our life I beleive it is necessary to protect the people from the big businesses and powerful people.

Teddy Roosevelt said it best on this point " there once was a time limiting government power meant increasing liberty for the people. In the present day limitation of government power, of goverment action, means enslavement by great corporations. Who can only be held in check through the extension of goverment power."

The truth is it saves lives. It prevents a company saving a buck and dumping toxic waste in a water supply. It helps ensure that workers are safe and compensated if they are injured. It helps keep dangerous products away from our children. But checks and balances are supposed to kick in. When the president ignores a part of those checks and balances we have a problem. And that is where the breakdown is. There is no longer a system of checks and balances to protect the people from the goverment.

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made Jan 30 at 2017 9:13 AM

MSG Jay Jackson — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:13:25 -0500

After having read your ramblings, and adding a few of my own, I rate this guy at four out of five stars and would recommend his ramblings over mine. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2017 10:25 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:25:23 -0500

I don't know, What I do know is that political actors have deliberately put us in little boxes and turned us against each other for their own benefit. We as citizens must not allow them to do this to us and we must work together to stamp that kind of action out. We must eliminate Hyphen-American and be just Americans!

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Jan 30 at 2017 11:43 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:43:23 -0500

If we were operating the country closer to the founders vision, these discussion would mostly be in 50 state capitals not in this massive national debate. We would have 50 conversations going within the states. They may or may not be heated because the more localized these discussions get the less heated they tend to get.

The control the feds have has grow over the last 200 years to a level unimaginable by those that wrote the constitution. We need to find a way to decentralize the easier ones first. Education, welfare, medicare/Medicaid, energy policy etc etc etc. A nation of 300+ million would be better served by 50 smaller versions of government more focused on their needs/aspirations etc.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2017 2:03 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:03:38 -0500

I think the moment we can no longer debate, disagree and ultimately compromise and find common ground on what is right for this nation is when I will go into full panic mode. It is unfortunate how so much gets defaulted to politics. A lot of things people disagree on, have to do with humanity. Ours is a country that boasts of freedoms. IMO that means within reason and abiding by civilized rule of law, you can have the freedom to be who and whatever you want. A myriad of things makes us see things differently because we are so diverse. I don't think there is a simple answer to your question. Especially since there are so many variables today. I think if the government was significantly limited, our union will cease to exist despite the war to keep it.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Jan 30 at 2017 3:18 PM

LTC Joseph Gross — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:18:10 -0500

Wouldn't that be great! However that runs contrary to the liberal notion of what our government is supposed to do. Since they firmly believe that the government can run their business better than they can do it themselves then government is failing in its duties if it is not knee deep in your business. Can't compromise or discuss issues with people that far removed from reality and the goals of our nation.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jan 30 at 2017 7:28 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 19:28:27 -0500

CPT Jack Durish I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Maybe we have become so divided as a society there is no "common ground" any more. That being said, I may not always agree with a comment or sentiment but rarely have I down voted and I never block. I enjoy a good back and forth discourse. Whenever someone drops to the level of personal attacks and offensive language, it's a fair indicator they are walking on shallow ground and feel the need to belittle someone else to improve their own standing.

Response by CPT Alexander Grant made Jan 31 at 2017 2:12 AM

CPT Alexander Grant — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 02:12:37 -0500

if limited government also meant less power for multi-national corporations, i don't think people would be nearly as desperate as they are today