Would you carry at a Civilian, Work Christmas Party?

2015-12-17T10:43:01-05:00

We are having a Christmas party at a Country club in the Dallas area. It is not a military function. It is my civilian work function.

I was speaking to my direct supervisor, I asked if I was able to carry a weapon to the function. Told him what the SOP stated. He said that I wouldn't because it could go bad and not to take the chance. I asked him to run it up or whether he was saying no? He stated that No don't carry. I have warning bells going of and that warm fuzzy going on. Might not have anything happen, but would like to be prepared.
How would the RP member take this and or do? Or even have done differently.

Here is our policy:
HANDGUNS, FIREARMS, OR WEAPONS
Employer( Name taken Out) strives to provide a work environment that is safe for our colleagues, visitors, and customers. In light of this, handguns, firearms, or weapons of any sort are not permitted in any of (employer removed) office locations. Anyone found to have a weapon of any sort in their possession will be subject to disciplinary action, up-to and including immediate termination.
If you are aware of a colleague with a weapon, you are to notify Human Resources and your senior leader immediately. If you have mistakenly brought a weapon, notify Human Resources and your senior leader for proper handling while at the work-site.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Dec 17 at 2015 10:50 AM

2015-12-17T10:50:57-05:00

"Tried by 12, carried by 6"

However, weigh the risk. If you don't think anything is going to happen.. maybe only carry the Keltec.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Dec 17 at 2015 10:51 AM

2015-12-17T10:51:02-05:00

Unless they are going to pat down everyone entering how will they know? If it did turn out that I needed it I had much rather be fired than killed.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 11:52 AM

2015-12-17T11:52:06-05:00

If your employer specifically prohibits carrying firearms during work functions or on company property then you shouldn't carry. Also, check the rules of the country club as well.

Where I live, it is against the law to drink while carrying so consider that.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Dec 17 at 2015 12:08 PM

2015-12-17T12:08:00-05:00

What are the rules of the country club concerning weapons on it's grounds? And is it worth losing your job for? Personally , I think it's asinine on the company's part, but it is their event.

Response by Sgt Tom Vaughn made Dec 17 at 2015 12:08 PM

2015-12-17T12:08:50-05:00

I would refuse to attend , and I would ask other employees to do the same , and instead have a potluck somewhere else

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 12:41 PM

2015-12-17T12:41:16-05:00

Remember, the worse trouble you can get out of it is limited, unless such party is in federal ground or location that prohibit firearm by state or federal law, all you will get is losing your job or get kick out of the event. Most of the states out there a "private gun free zone" has not enforcement of law, beside charging you trespassing when they ask you to leave and you refuse. At least in my state is 100% correct. Care to clarify what other states do the same like WV?

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Dec 17 at 2015 12:41 PM

2015-12-17T12:41:42-05:00

Make sure you have researched and understand the concealed and open carry laws of your state, and DO NOT break the law. Then, review your company policy, and ensure the wording is "office locations", as you say, and not a broader "work environments" or workplace gatherings". Then, know your state's employment laws. Virginia law allows employees to quit, and employers to fire, for any reason or no reason at all, and without warning. So in VA, you better know how your boss would react. If you can say yes to all of the above, or the threat warrants it even with potentially losing your job, then carry. Mine's staying in my car, and I'm retrieving it to walk my wife back to the car at the end of the evening.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Dec 17 at 2015 12:49 PM

2015-12-17T12:49:33-05:00

Just curious... Why do you have warning bells going off? Do you have direct knowledge of a possible event that may take place? The policy is crystal clear, so would it be worth the ramifications by taking the chance and then being discovered? I think, maybe, this is one Christmas Party you should probably just sit out... Just an opinion...

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Dec 17 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-12-17T12:56:05-05:00

First, it is better to ask for forgiveness than for permission. You have put the spotlight on the fact that you might carry. Your policy states that any employee that thinks someone may have a weapon is supposed to report it. He could report you and they could fire you.

It varies by state but there are certain places under the law you cannot carry (courts, police stations, schools etc.) those are technically the only places you cannot legal conceal carry. Your employer has the ability to terminate you for violating their rules. That is another level of consideration. Legally, there is nothing they can do to you for carrying (as long as your are not violating the law) but they can fire you which will leave a mark.

My suggestion would be not to every say anything about carrying to events like that. Operate within the letter of the law.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-12-17T13:10:35-05:00

I would bring it up to my supervisor since that the event is not being taken place at an office location; it's a country club from what you say. Also I would understand with the light of some recent events, someone would be anti-gun or pro-gun at this function. Since the event is a company-based party, it may stray into the gray area with the anti-weapon policy but I can see where the policy only applies to office locations. Supervisor is looking out for the best interest of both parties. I'm not anti-gun but to avoid the aspect of dramatic expressions and acts, it would be best to not carry it with you. If you want to make sure that you have it near, put it in your car; hold on to your permit-to-carry.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 1:26 PM

2015-12-17T13:26:56-05:00

If you are caught carrying, you will be in trouble with the civilian authorities and the National Guard, so why take that chance? Why are warning bells going off - have you heard something?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 2:28 PM

2015-12-17T14:28:34-05:00

I would carry this year, if I had a permit to do so.
Be prepared to be fired, even if you use that weapon to protect yourself and your co-workers.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 17 at 2015 3:18 PM

2015-12-17T15:18:36-05:00

I just wouldnt go. Discretion is the better part of valor.

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Dec 17 at 2015 3:29 PM

2015-12-17T15:29:19-05:00

I would carry unless it is against the rules of the country club you will be at. From what I can by what you posted it is not against the policy of the company. You are not on company property / work place.
Just because your supervisor has a problem with someone carrying it is not yours to worry about. I would conceal carry it and just not let anyone know you have it. If the pistol is too big to CC, then you have the wrong type of pistol.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Dec 17 at 2015 4:32 PM

2015-12-17T16:32:36-05:00

Company sponsored activity - Company policy - No guns - then, No guns.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 6:54 PM

2015-12-17T18:54:51-05:00

Why would you ask if you know it is wrong then don't do it. If it is not prohibited then why would you let people know what you have?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 9:28 PM

2015-12-17T21:28:34-05:00

If it is legal for you to carry, don't ask and carry away. You are at a country club, not "in any of (employer removed) office locations", therefore violating no rules or policies.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2015 9:40 PM

2015-12-17T21:40:14-05:00

With all the events happening lately I personally would carry and not say anything. I noticed you said you have a full size 1911 and in my personal opinion that is not a conceal carry pistol, I would look going with a compact or sub compact if you are wanting to conceal.

Response by SGT Beau Thomas made Dec 18 at 2015 12:47 AM

2015-12-18T00:47:25-05:00

At least in Texas, it is against the law to carry a weapon, concealed or otherwise into an establishment that has 51% or more of its sales in alcohol. I know it is also against the law to carry if you are intoxicated. I had a friend who got a DUI with his legally concealed weapon. That misdemeanor turned into a felony and it ruined his guard career.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Dec 20 at 2015 2:49 AM

2015-12-20T02:49:34-05:00

"No" means "No". If you don't feel safe at the party, don't go.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 3:40 AM

2015-12-20T03:40:51-05:00

Would say you have to do what is best in your mind. But also need to understand the possible consequences for violating policy. Sometimes what folks don't know is best. Just my .02!

Response by SCPO Joshua I made Dec 20 at 2015 3:45 AM

2015-12-20T03:45:02-05:00

Never say a word to anyone. That said, you're not going to the party this year and carrying, because your supervisor knows already.

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Dec 20 at 2015 7:28 AM

2015-12-20T07:28:06-05:00

Until reading the SOP, my vote would have been better to ask for forgiveness than permission. However, after reading the SOP, this is a work function and it's clear that carry is prohibited. Given this, I would not have asked, I just would have kept my weapon secured in my POV. Thus would be protected to and from the event. If I were to indulge or believe I would indulge in some libations, my weapon would be left at home. Here in NC while carry, on person or within person, having had an alcoholic beverage would violate my CCW permit.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 20 at 2015 10:36 AM

2015-12-20T10:36:06-05:00

I only carry when it is not statutorily off limits by federal or state law and when Im awake......So at a Christmas party??? Oh wait were we talking about......

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Dec 20 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-12-20T11:54:45-05:00

Yes, I would carry , and tell my Supervisor. My Supervisor at Burger King carried. I was the only one that he entrusted to tell, he knew I was an Infantry man. If something would happen, he wanted me to know that he had a gun that was loaded. He was the the franchise owner, he had worked on up from just a simple crewmember. One night, long ago, he was at a Burger king with one or two others and robbers held them at gunpoint demanding cash. That is why he carries. Coincidentally though, like that title; it was a Christmas Party' when he told me all this and showed me his handgun. Which I cleared when he handed me, etc. You never forget firearm safety.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Dec 20 at 2015 1:34 PM

2015-12-20T13:34:47-05:00

I would carry because I don't believe that terrorists/criminals are any less likely to assault a Christmas Party than any other time or function. Of course, I am confident that I could do so responsibly inasmuch as I am not a person who indulges in any behavior which might diminish my capacity for being responsible (such as drinking). Maybe those who drink should have a designated shooter?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 9:27 AM

2015-12-21T09:27:14-05:00

When I am not on the Installation I carry everywhere I go, and I do it because I am not going to rely on someone else to protect what matters most in my life which is my life and the life of my family.

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 21 at 2015 10:14 AM

2015-12-21T10:14:49-05:00

My thoughts are if you are carrying concealed, nobody should know you are carrying. If you are producing a profile then you need to rethink your carry gun. Even my wife has no clue when I have a gun on me. In the summer I usually carry a Beretta Tomcat and in the winter I carry Bersa Thunder unless I know I am not coming out of my coat. Then it is a .45 Glock 21.

Back when I went back to collage I always had a gun on me even though the schools policy was no guns period on campus. I either had one in my backpack, or in a ankle holster. No body was the wiser. Just my 2 cents.

Response by PO1 John Juarez made Dec 29 at 2015 11:23 AM

2015-12-29T11:23:35-05:00

As long as the policy doesn't also specify company functions, I would and wouldn't say anything to anyone. Why would you?? As long as you are legal, and not specifically forbidden by company policy....you are golden!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2015 11:59 AM

2015-12-29T11:59:59-05:00

If you value your job enough I don't think it's worth pushing your employers SOU