Would you find it acceptable to hang a tattered flag in distress for political reasons?

SPC David Willis — Thu, 04 Aug 2022 15:14:44 -0400

I was driving home from work and took the back way due to traffic and passed this farm house with a Marine flag, some Trump signs and a flag hung upside down that was visibly worn out from the road. I honestly couldnt believe a Marine would disrespect the flag by flying it while worn out but I couldnt figure out how I felt about the distress part simply cuz his guy lost. The 1A loving part of me was saying "thats his right" while the other part of me was going "I bet this dude roasted athletes for not respecting the flag". Has anyone else ever seen a flag flying in distress for illegitimate reasons?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2022 3:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Aug 2022 15:51:20 -0400

SPC David Willis I'm in total agreement that a tattered flag should be replaced at the earliest convenience... but the hanging upside down is not defensible.

Response by SPC Jon O. made Aug 4 at 2022 4:22 PM

SPC Jon O. — Thu, 04 Aug 2022 16:22:29 -0400

We have several houses near us that fly the American flag upside down. Not a big fan of that no matter whose in office. There are many ways to demonstrate your frustration with the current administration but flying the flag upside down isn't it.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Aug 4 at 2022 5:07 PM

LTC Kevin B. — Thu, 04 Aug 2022 17:07:04 -0400

I have seen that. It made the guy's business look amateurish.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 4 at 2022 7:41 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Thu, 04 Aug 2022 19:41:35 -0400

A tattered flag isn’t a symbol of anything other than an old flag that needs to be replaced and retired.

Response by Cpl Vic Burk made Aug 4 at 2022 7:55 PM

Cpl Vic Burk — Thu, 04 Aug 2022 19:55:22 -0400

SPC David Willis I agree that this is disrespectful. Was the Marine Corps flag also tattered?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2022 9:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Aug 2022 21:04:59 -0400

The first amendment. You’re either down with it, or you’re not

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Aug 5 at 2022 12:57 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Fri, 05 Aug 2022 00:57:42 -0400

In my opinion, flying a tattered flag except when its waving atop your
bunker in the middle of a shooting battle is unacceptable at any time

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 5 at 2022 7:40 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 05 Aug 2022 07:40:46 -0400

I have seen worn and tattered due to laziness and I shared my feelings. I have never seen one blatantly disrespected and used as a political statement, I would take issue with it.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Aug 5 at 2022 2:35 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Fri, 05 Aug 2022 14:35:36 -0400

You never know what kind of stuff might be going on this person's mind. For all we know he/she has a horrible case of PTSD but lacks the ability to communicate what needs to said with the VA healthcare system. He/she may have been the victim of a horrendous incident that haunts them daily. and this is their only way of expressing it.
In other words, he might be in dire need of help. If you can do it safely, reach out and see if you can help.
22 a day is too many.

Response by PFC Edgar Mosier made Aug 7 at 2022 6:16 PM

PFC Edgar Mosier — Sun, 07 Aug 2022 18:16:43 -0400

To the "nay-sayers", I'd ask, "Who stopped and offered a replacement?"
Truthfully, I've been so poor and disenfranchised that I have considered unfurling my kid brother's flag, just to fly a distress signal. (He died due to Gross Medical Neglect at Ft Hood, Mar. 15, 1979. That set me up for what is now known as PTSD, what during 'Nam would have been Combat Fatigue.)
Have you ever been told HOW you feel by some professional that never wore combat boots, let alone ever Served? What disrespect...
Next time you see a person flying such, offer a solve, at least for your conscience.
Respect: It matters not just to a battered banner: Thinking of the "Star-Spangled Banner" and knowing the PRIDE I have in its' message.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Aug 8 at 2022 11:24 AM

CSM William Everroad — Mon, 08 Aug 2022 11:24:01 -0400

SPC David Willis, The flag is a symbol for the person flying the flag, and only them (aside from those flown on public property). We, as people, have wrapped our identity in so many inanimate things so completely that we take personal offense to what someone does with an inanimate object that we do not even possess. I used to feel a certain way when I saw people who did not maintain their flag. I saw it as a sign of personal disrespect and disrespect to my battles who died. But at the end of the day, the fact that they aren't drug out of their house by government "thought police" for doing it is better proof that we are free than requiring blind obedience to symbols and songs.

In the end, isn't that what we are really standing on the wall for? Is it illegal? No. Is it distasteful? Sure, but I argue in the same way as finding it horrendous that someone drives the speed limit on the highway.

If we get into a tizzy every time someone does something that offends us because we find it distasteful, we are no better than children who are told they have to share and people start to do things just to watch us get into a tizzy. It is part of the reason people burn flags at protests, they get attention.

To your "in-distress" question, unless we are in a real CONUS war, I seriously doubt anyone pays attention to the orientation of the flag.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 12 at 2022 3:38 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 15:38:54 -0400

Now and then see some protester on TV with an upside down flag marching in a protest. Mostly they appear to be on the more liberal side of things. It's truly their right to show the flag in such a way, but there's no requirement for me to agree with their actions or their political position.

Response by CPT Robert Swain made Sep 14 at 2022 3:33 PM

CPT Robert Swain — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 15:33:38 -0400

TOTALLY OPPOSED!

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Sep 14 at 2022 4:01 PM

1SG James Kelly — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 16:01:41 -0400

Most of them.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 14 at 2022 4:18 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 16:18:46 -0400

I have never seen a flag in distress accept in the movies, and I am thankful for it.

Response by Sgt Robert Lombard made Sep 14 at 2022 4:55 PM

Sgt Robert Lombard — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 16:55:06 -0400

Not acceptable to "hang a tattered flag" if there is an alternative, in either orientation.

Response by SPC Lyle Montgomery made Sep 14 at 2022 7:02 PM

SPC Lyle Montgomery — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 19:02:39 -0400

I have seen tattered flags flying but I don't think it was malicious intent, just carelessness. I was working construction on a turbine overhaul at a power plant. on an outside break I noticed that the flag was badly tattered. I contacted someone in the controul room and they did nothing. I then called the local American Legion post and notified them. They got right on it and lit a fire under the plant manager and his bosses ass. The flag was replaced the next day. You sometimes just need to talk to the right people.

Response by SCPO Lloyd Sikes made Sep 14 at 2022 7:31 PM

SCPO Lloyd Sikes — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 19:31:01 -0400

No, I have never seen a Flag in distress mode. The Flag described above is a disgrace and the owner should be told, and if he refuses to put it right I think a GI party may be in order.

Response by 1stSgt Ronald Sheps made Sep 14 at 2022 8:56 PM

1stSgt Ronald Sheps — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 20:56:52 -0400

A real dichotomy for me.
On a personal level, it is something I would never do.
On a practical level, isn't that what we fought to defend?
It's repugnant, but not illegal nor threatening.
It's a child moving to cursing for attention.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Sep 14 at 2022 9:12 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:12:06 -0400

No, no American flag that is tattered should ever be flown. Take it down, replace it and give the tattered flag a proper retirement

Response by LTC George Morgan made Sep 14 at 2022 10:34 PM

LTC George Morgan — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 22:34:15 -0400

NO, nor should it be, EVER!

Response by PO3 Paul Whitus made Sep 14 at 2022 11:29 PM

PO3 Paul Whitus — Wed, 14 Sep 2022 23:29:53 -0400

Never would I hang an American flag the wrong way, unless in an emergency !

Response by Sgt Jerry Genesio made Sep 15 at 2022 1:23 AM

Sgt Jerry Genesio — Thu, 15 Sep 2022 01:23:09 -0400

There are disrespectful acts, behaviors, and treatments that our flag is subjected to that I don't like so I don't do them, but our brothers- and sisters-in-arms have fought and died to keep this country free. The flag conveys no particular freedom or rights to us. It is a symbol. The Constitution, on the other hand, is a document that does. I pledged allegiance to our flag, but I swore to protect our Constitution "from all enemies, foreign and domestic" I respect our flag, but I will protect our Constitution. Unlike those who would overthrow our democracy for authoritarianism, my oath to protect the Constitution will last for my entire lifetime.

Response by PO1 Sam Deel made Sep 15 at 2022 3:06 AM

PO1 Sam Deel — Thu, 15 Sep 2022 03:06:40 -0400

This is subjective to whether you believe that the Nation is in distress or not. One group believes that everything is all sunshine and rainbows. Another group sees the current dire straits of the Nation as the prelude disaster. Still yet, another group chooses to dump their head in the sand, ignoring the other two groups. Flying the Flag of the United States of America inverted does have a stated reason to do so. For example, the Lone Star Flag of the Republic has no such rule. Who is to say that a Veteran cannot fly the Standard in a distress orientation or not? Remember that modern PC saying, "I served to protect their right to do xxx" . Shall that same sentiment not apply here, as well?

As far as your conclusion that this Vet "roasted athletes" is comparing oranges to avocados. The athletes were not only disrespecting the Flag, they were protesting against it and the entirety of the Nation that gave them their entertainment job. A Veteran flying Old Glory in distress orientation is NOT disrespecting her. It is not a protest against who is office in DC. It is a warning about the sordid state that has befell this Nation, a clarion call to those with their head in the sand to take notice. Doubt it would put a dent in the belief of group one.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Sep 15 at 2022 4:01 AM

SGT Erick Holmes — Thu, 15 Sep 2022 04:01:09 -0400

NO NO NO you never hang the flag upside down. We are america. Although we may have some distress times happening we are a country that will figure it out and try to make it better

Response by 1SG Michael Farrell made Sep 15 at 2022 4:38 AM

1SG Michael Farrell — Thu, 15 Sep 2022 04:38:49 -0400

As I recall, the Flag is to be treated as a living person and when no longer serviceable should be folded and then burned. Most American Legion Posts take time each year to burn Flags that have done their duty and are ready to be retired.

Response by SPC Richard White made Sep 15 at 2022 11:01 AM

SPC Richard White — Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:01:07 -0400

No it is not acceptable. There are more constructive ways to show your opinion

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2022 3:34 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Sep 2022 15:34:39 -0400

No. a worn out flag expresses willful neglect. The US Flag hung wrong side down is (I believe) an internationally recognized symbol for distress at sea.

Response by SFC Brian Gillum made Sep 15 at 2022 5:38 PM

SFC Brian Gillum — Thu, 15 Sep 2022 17:38:50 -0400

Would I? No, but that’s my opinion.

As you mentioned, under the 1A he enjoys a modicum of freedom of expression (speech is not limited to the spoken or written word, but icons and symbols can be considered as speech as well, within contextual boundaries).

Being a former service member, or a Marine no longer serving in uniform, does not make anyone an expert on the Flag Code, or any other etiquette related to the symbols that represent our nation.

I used to say that it was my duty to protect a persons freedom of expression, even if, no, especially if I didn’t agree with it myself. However, when someone else punches you as their expression of opinion in response to yours, well…. That doesn’t mean I will allow them to beat you or curb stomp you, but when you express a radical idea, you ought expect a response to said opinion that may be vehemently and vigorously provided.

As for worn, tattered and torn, going back to the Flag Code, should it be retired? Probably. Unless their is some historical significance to it being that way (was flying in a combat zone, was rescued from some flag stomping ritual, etc). But, again, knowing and observing etiquette aren’t in everyone’s bailiwick.

As for the political connotations, I will remain mute, because it will otherwise drown out the reason for this conversation.

Response by PO1 Terry Scott made Sep 15 at 2022 7:17 PM

PO1 Terry Scott — Thu, 15 Sep 2022 19:17:51 -0400

I vacation in the Sleeping Bear area of MI. There is a house I regularly drive by that flies the American flag and three Marine Corps flags. Two summers ago I saw one Corps flag missing. Needless to say I teared up. A week later three were back up. Didn't stop, didn't need to make a scene but did say a prayer. Been there, did that, wore out the T shirt but thanks for all you bumping back when things go bump in the night now that I cant. I hope to do my part to ensure there is an experiment in self government to come back to. Trump gave us the opportunity to see how corrupt and self serving the political class has gotten. If you'r a Trump supporter on social media and didn't go to the capital on Jan 6th for the FBI to gin you up to trespass, you only need an an anonymous tip to get a visit from the new domestic terrorist organization called the FBI. Its okay to mot like Trump, I didn't until I saw him in action. If you enjoy being lied to and ripped off do not divert a small percentage of your attention to sports toward politics. Grow a memory, learn to do simple math and story problems. Like I told my kids when they hit the third grade "Life is a story problem." Why has the media stopped counting dead people on the boarder? Why are the small towns in TX that look like a disaster area not on the news? Why is it so hard to understand when the government prints money yours id worth less? Does putting more checks in your check book make you richer? HillsdaleCollage.org is a nice place to start. Even if your a die hard democrat I think you'er basically a nice person unlike our political democrats that excel at calling names.

Response by LCDR Robert S. made Sep 16 at 2022 2:38 PM

LCDR Robert S. — Fri, 16 Sep 2022 14:38:36 -0400

There was a house in my neighborhood that flew the flag upside down as a political statement. I still haven't gotten around to knocking on their door and pointing out that as a distress signal, an upside down flag is a request for immediate help at the location of the upside down flag. I'm pretty sure they haven't been in danger to life or the hazarding of their vessel (or house) for the whole time it was flying that way.