Would your opinion about the current controversial picture of West Point cadets change, if it was a different group?

SSG Robert Webster — Fri, 06 May 2016 08:19:35 -0400

Response by SSG Robert Webster made May 6 at 2016 8:25 AM

SSG Robert Webster — Fri, 06 May 2016 08:25:41 -0400

No, Since there is no outside relevant factor, any group of similar make up, in the same pose could and should be construed as being wrong. My question is would you feel the same if this was a group of all white males, or all white females, or all black males or any other grouping based on race and gender? From my stance ALL would be wrong.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 8:36 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 May 2016 08:36:34 -0400

Frankly, the group in the photo is irrelevant. The intent of the group it the point.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 8:45 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 May 2016 08:45:32 -0400

No. No matter who it is, I believe the situation would need to be investigated.

Response by SGT Callen Pool made May 6 at 2016 9:02 AM

SGT Callen Pool — Fri, 06 May 2016 09:02:38 -0400

regardless of sex or race, these are our future leaders and shouldn't be making political statements in military uniform. if that's what they where trying to do. in any case its under investigation.

Response by LTC Jeffrey Shapiro made May 6 at 2016 9:06 AM

LTC Jeffrey Shapiro — Fri, 06 May 2016 09:06:10 -0400

Good thing they never posted my company's firstie photo of us wearing Togas or we would have all been investigated for being drunken party animals. Remember, these are still college students, regardless of where they are. Sometimes they just don't really think through things. They might need a little talking to, I agree the optics of this don't look good...but in 1988 when I graduated, we didn't have to worry about such things.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 9:23 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 May 2016 09:23:37 -0400

Why is this even a question? Is someone really going to post that they would be ok with the pic if they were white? All this is, is baiting for an argument that doesnt exist because a) this isnt 1950 and b) even if someone did think it would be ok if it was a group of white guys, they wouldnt be stupid enough to say so in such a public forum where everyone has their rank, service, unit and photo in uniform easily visible to everyone.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made May 6 at 2016 10:15 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Fri, 06 May 2016 10:15:58 -0400

But, there would be some students that would be packing up their things and heading for home, if they did.

Response by CPL Ashley Ferguson made May 6 at 2016 10:28 AM

CPL Ashley Ferguson — Fri, 06 May 2016 10:28:15 -0400

I've seen white male soldiers with "Kiss Me I'm Irish" stuff around their work areas. Nobody ever once thought to be offended by it because they were just celebrating their own culture, and it's wasn't at all disrespectful to anyone else. I see this the same way. BLM didn't invent the raised fist symbol; the 'fist' just means they're proud to be black. Why is anyone mad about that? Diversity is what makes our country beautiful.

Response by PO1 Brian Carlson made May 6 at 2016 10:47 AM

PO1 Brian Carlson — Fri, 06 May 2016 10:47:23 -0400

The fists look very much like the photos of the Black Panthers. I would feel the same way if the Ku Klux Klan or Black Lives Matter where to take photos in or out of uniforms. There should be zero tolerance for racism.

Response by SGT James Colbert made May 6 at 2016 10:54 AM

SGT James Colbert — Fri, 06 May 2016 10:54:55 -0400

no white black purple green orange...wrong is wrong. ethics are very straight foward. does it make a more perfound statement, because of race or minority status, it shouldnt, but that always standa out first

Response by SGT Casey Lovell made May 6 at 2016 11:18 AM

SGT Casey Lovell — Fri, 06 May 2016 11:18:49 -0400

Nope.

Army Regulation is Army Regulation. Seeing it come from West Point Cadets only amplifies the ridiculousness of their decision - if our Officers can't abide by regulation, who will? You certainly can't expect of others what you do not expect of yourself.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 11:26 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 May 2016 11:26:56 -0400

SSG Robert Webster, you can't separate the two. A better question would be if there was a group of white females all with their arms raised at a 45 degree angle with their palms flat, fingers pointed. You still can't determine intent, but it looks a whole hell of a lot like a Nazi salute. Would you have a problem with that photo? I sure would. What about an all Spanish/latino group showing what appears to be a latin-kings hand sign? It may not be exactly the same thing, and you can't prove intent, but the perception is there. Those examples are more appropriate. You can't separate the women in this photo from the action. It's a fallacy of logic.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made May 6 at 2016 11:35 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Fri, 06 May 2016 11:35:07 -0400

I don't give ONE SOLITARY FUCK about if so n so did it, or these Soldiers did it. The support a cause that might be dear to them. They might support a cause where one of their brothers, family members or friend was killed. Had they been white and did the same thing based off what I mentioned above? I wouldn't give ONE SINGLE SOLITARY FUCK. Equality for all. BLM is not a political party, not a political arm of a party, they are an activist group. So if I saw a bunch of white Soldiers who were part of Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, or a Frat, I would care about as much as I do now. Hell make a group called WLM. They do just as much as BLM. If I see in uniform, "Feel the Bern" or "Make America Great Again", THEN I'd have a problem. Handing out political flyers, I have a problem, but community activistism? Naw. Not worth the time.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made May 6 at 2016 11:42 AM

SSG Carlos Madden — Fri, 06 May 2016 11:42:39 -0400

Hi SSG,

Lot of members recently weighed in on this very question. Check out this discussion:
https://www.rallypoint.com/organizations/united-states-military-academy-usma-west-point/answers/do-you-believe-that-these-west-point-first-classman-are-violating-the-ucmj-by-making-a-political-statement-while-in-uniform

Do you believe that these West Point first classman are violating the UCMJ by making a political...

DOD directive 1344.10 states: -A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may: 4.1.1.3. Join a partisan or nonpartisan political club and attend its meetings when NOT in uniform, subject to the restrictions of subparagraph 4.1.2.4. (See DoD Instruction 1334.1 (Reference (c).) From the article "Racism Within West Point" http://www.inthearenafitness.com/index.php/racism-within-west-point

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 11:45 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 May 2016 11:45:20 -0400

No, my opinion would not change. The only color I saw in that pic (besides the color of the building) was the USMA Gray.