Should an Officer who was non-selected for promotion, and discharged at 16 years of service, reenlist to finish their 20?

CH (CPT) Antonio Arnold — Sun, 27 Mar 2022 11:37:09 -0400

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2022 11:45 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Mar 2022 11:45:04 -0400

Yes... why wouldn't you?

Response by CH (CPT) Antonio Arnold made Mar 27 at 2022 11:51 AM

CH (CPT) Antonio Arnold — Sun, 27 Mar 2022 11:51:51 -0400

Had a friend who was an Air Force Lt retired SFC. Another associate of mine was an Air Force Pilot (Major) wearing his wings as a Army Sergeant to finish his 20.

Response by CH (CPT) Antonio Arnold made Mar 27 at 2022 11:58 AM

CH (CPT) Antonio Arnold — Sun, 27 Mar 2022 11:58:32 -0400

I was nonselected for Captain with 13 years. After 911, I enlisted in the Air Force served 3 years and transfer back into the Army to prepare for Chaplain. Was promoted to E6 and three months Direct Commission to Army Chaplain Captain 3 months later Disability Land. Prove you can continue serving your country to retirement regardless of the rank. Just keep your head up.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2022 1:07 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Mar 2022 13:07:32 -0400

Absolutely, 4 years is nothing compaired to the 16 you've already served. Why would you give up a retirement check? (Reserve retirement may not pay the bills under the old system, but it is time served and money earned.)

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 27 at 2022 1:28 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sun, 27 Mar 2022 13:28:01 -0400

Short answer: yes. As I understand your profile, you are a Captain in the Reserve. If the question is not hypothetical, but is personal, you've been twice non-selected to major. Your profile shows you were previously an E-6. If you choose to enlist to complete your 20 good years, then you will probably come back in as an E-6.

My experience with officers going to enlisted to complete 20 is limited. I worked with a captain pilot who was twice passed over, but was allowed to remain on active duty as an O3 to 20 years because the Air Force was short on pilots. See if your MOS is critical. I also was a Scout Leader with an Air Force SSgt (E5) who had been a Captain. He sued the Air Force, the officers who wrote and endorsed his last few OERs before his promotion board. He won! He went to work one morning as a SSgt and came home that afternoon as a major. This is rare. I don't recall the exact grounds for his suit. It was not because he was discriminated against as a member of a protected class. It had something to do with supervision and geographical separation from his rater. There was an operations clerk at an Air Base where I worked who was a Master Sergeant, but wore Command Pilot wings. I asked about him and was told by my boss he had been a major who was twice passed over for lieutenant colonel. He chose to finish out his 20 as an enlister person then decided to stay even longer.

I think it's worth it financially. You'll probably retire as a Captain with 20 years of service. Good retirement pay. You'll be eligible for TRICARE till you're 65, then TRICARE for Life. Your retired ID card will get you installation access and use of AAFES, Commissary, Pharmacy, etc. It's well worth it.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2022 2:02 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Mar 2022 14:02:02 -0400

The short answer would be yes. But what are your current circumstances? Are you disabled, reenlistment code, age etc. If you are receiving a VA disability and was accepted by a branch for reenlistment you would have to suspend your disability payments or your military pay, you cannot receive both. Are you thinking Active or Guard/Reserve, officer or enlisted? Way to many variables to give you a straight answer. My suggestion if you’re serious about pursuing this are contacting a recruiter and seeing what options you may have. Good luck!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2022 9:10 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Mar 2022 21:10:21 -0400

Probably the least painful path is to sneak into the Reserves, and get your remaining good years of service and apply for a Reservist Retirement based on your accumulated points. I presume your 16 years are fully active so that's going to be 5840 points right there. Then......... you'd need 4 more good reserve years, and at minimum need 50 points each year, 15 of which are automatic, and 48 for attending monthly drill then at minimum 14 points for annual training. 77 being the "minimum" without missing anything (I've never had less than 90ish) So at a minimum you'll retire with 6040 points.

The 20 year CPT pay is $7543. 20 years will get one 50% of that base pay (the old retirement plan) which is based on 7300 points. So a reserve pension would be prorated, and in your worst case (50 points the remining 4 years) is [6040/7300] * 0.5 * 7543 = $3120 a month.

Do I have this correct folks?

Not completing out the remainder 4 years is at a minimum loss of $3120 a month for the rest of his life?

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 30 at 2022 6:10 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Wed, 30 Mar 2022 18:10:40 -0400

You should go full time reserve or national guard for four years the retire.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 30 at 2022 6:12 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Wed, 30 Mar 2022 18:12:31 -0400

Officers are not 38B. 38B is the enlisted MOS for civil affairs.

Response by 1SG Victor Sotil made Jun 24 at 2022 11:05 AM

1SG Victor Sotil — Fri, 24 Jun 2022 11:05:03 -0400

The short answer and most compassionate is yes, however, if so, what about the E5 that is unable to get promoted, or the enlisted that cannot get promoted in order to continue with his/her career. I have seen many Soldiers in my time that are awesome Sergeant (E5) but are unable to continue if not make SSG. Just remember what is good for one must be good for all. I am all for allowing them to continue, but perhaps the availability to enter the Reserve or NG. Honestly, the Army has changed so much since I retired that I am not so sure what else or what are the options. I retired in 2014 and I had a CPT that was passed over for Major and was allowed to retire as Captain.

Response by SFC Catherine Argyle made Jun 24 at 2022 2:35 PM

SFC Catherine Argyle — Fri, 24 Jun 2022 14:35:06 -0400

Absolutely! Your retirement pay would be at the highest rank you held, so what's four more years? I served with several people in the Reserves who were officers on active duty and got passed over, so they enlisted to finish out their time.

Response by CW4 Marion Owens made Jun 25 at 2022 11:00 PM

CW4 Marion Owens — Sat, 25 Jun 2022 23:00:19 -0400

I say yes!

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2022 1:19 AM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 01:19:37 -0400

I had a friend who was twice passed over for Major. He resigned his commission, put his stripes back on as an E-5, got promoted, reached 20 and retired as a Captain.

Response by Maj Roberto Benitez made Jun 26 at 2022 1:46 AM

Maj Roberto Benitez — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 01:46:15 -0400

I knew of a major passed over at 16 years during a major RIF. He chose to enlist as an NCO and served to 30 years. His commander called him a disgrace to the officer corps for doing so.

He also joined his State Reserve where his family had friends and in State government. This was back when they still had both Regular and Reserve officer promotion opportunities. So on all his available weekends and on leave he served with his State Guard and was promoted to Brigadier.

So on his last day of active duty service he pinned on his star and paid his former commander a visit. He had one terrified full colonel terrified up against a wall. It was beautiful.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2022 9:20 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 09:20:06 -0400

It's certainly a huge batch of humble pie, but I think it's worth it. Remember that you retire at your highest grade, so you'll still retire as an O-3 (I assume you have prior time, which is why you were asked to resign your commission rather than just being allowed to ride it out as a terminal O-4).

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Jun 26 at 2022 2:34 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 14:34:50 -0400

You should surely have considered it as a possible course of action. I served as an NCO before I earned my commission, and think it helped me. The fact that you have now been granted 100% disability may preclude any return to active service. And as you've indicated to MAJ Garbarini, you have decided to not return. Thank you for serving, and good luck in your future endeavors.

Response by SGT Michael Frachiseur made Jun 26 at 2022 8:34 PM

SGT Michael Frachiseur — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 20:34:40 -0400

What happen to the RIF program that existed after Vietnam, rather than discharge officers were offered the opportunity to take a reduction to an enlisted grade, usually E-5 or higher in the same branch ?

Response by SSG Timothy Lanham made Jun 28 at 2022 1:00 AM

SSG Timothy Lanham — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 01:00:26 -0400

Why throw away 16 years of your life if you can go the other route The retirement pay for enlisted will be less than officer, but still a monthly paycheck. Don't know what rank you would get when you go to enlisted.

Response by 2d Lt Jim Dorval made Jun 28 at 2022 10:57 PM

2d Lt Jim Dorval — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 22:57:18 -0400

Prosecuted yes. Persecuted no. Fair justice. That is what we all fought for, regardless of the #@$$ who committed treason.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Jun 29 at 2022 6:09 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 06:09:24 -0400

I would.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Jun 29 at 2022 8:20 AM

GySgt William Hardy — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:20:48 -0400

Yes, but do you not have another option? Can you take your 16 years and transfer to the Army Reserve or National Guard? As an enlisted member, I used my 11.5 years of active duty to gain many more points towards retirement than most of my fellow Guardsmen. An officer should be able to do the same . . . ??? If you do go enlisted to finish your 20, do you not have the option of collecting retirement at the highest grade?

Response by MSG David Lambert made Jun 29 at 2022 8:28 AM

MSG David Lambert — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:28:02 -0400

Have you thought of active reserve service? Though collection of retirement pay is delayed, you are eligible to apply for VA compensation and continue to serve. Depending on your rating could end up collecting more.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Jun 29 at 2022 6:18 PM

1SG Ernest Stull — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 18:18:20 -0400

Yes you should b/c unless the service has changed the rules you will retire at the highest rank held ie, captain.

Response by LTC Gary Raymond made Jul 25 at 2022 9:43 PM

LTC Gary Raymond — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 21:43:18 -0400

I was a two time non-select in 1996, told at drill on Saturday, during your equipment in tomorrow & you don't need too come back.
After being out 5 years, I was attending my PLT SGT funeral and was asked to consider re-enlisting. I did. The new program called AKO showed me none of my military or cilivian education was on the Army system.
Showed this error to the CDR and it was forwarded to the AL TAG. His office refused to assist. So a Congressional was filled. To keep it short E4 to O4 in about 12 months. Did I mention this was 2003 & 2004 deployed to KU in OIF.

Response by 1SG Jerry Butts made Jul 27 at 2022 1:59 PM

1SG Jerry Butts — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 13:59:06 -0400

Unless rules have changed in the US Army I believe if you come back as an enlisted you can still reire at the highest Rank you held...may take a bit of paperwork but it is work it!!

Response by SSgt Clyde Ellis made Jul 27 at 2022 6:06 PM

SSgt Clyde Ellis — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 18:06:27 -0400

I recall a US Army officer who was rifted out. Enlisted in the Army and had to go through BASIC with the kids. But he was in better physical shape than any of the kids. Finished two years to get his 20!

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Jul 27 at 2022 7:42 PM

MGySgt Rick Tyrrell — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 19:42:47 -0400

Yes. If it was an enlisted man question it would not be asked. It happens and is unfortunate but that just the way the system works.

Response by MAJ Jim Hollingsworth made Jul 27 at 2022 8:51 PM

MAJ Jim Hollingsworth — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 20:51:49 -0400

Reup Chaplain. You'll be glad you did. And pay no mind to anyone saying "substandard." Such comments are substandard and unworthy. There are many fine officers, through no fault of their own, who have been downsized by the Military. It's the nature of our beast. After Vietnam massive "bloodbaths" filled with RIF officers occurred. And NCOs and lower enlisted endure the same purges. After the Gulf War, politicians sought to capitalize on the "peace dividend." After 9-11, it took months and months refill, retrain, and prepare the troops for deployment. Anyway, hang in there. If you have ten years as an officer on active duty (and you are probably at least close), you'll get to retire at your highest held rank. Hang in there, Soldier!

Response by SGT Carolyn Sena made Jul 27 at 2022 10:29 PM

SGT Carolyn Sena — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 22:29:10 -0400

Absolutely. Be foolish not too.

Response by SFC David Hackett made Jul 27 at 2022 11:05 PM

SFC David Hackett — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 23:05:33 -0400

Whenever someone asks me something like this as close as you are I tell them to look at the big picture. I frame it like this as the retired E7 that I am (currently GS). :"If I am 95 years old on 1August what's going to happen"? They look at me and have no idea what I am talking about so I repeat it. They invariably say they have no idea what is going to happen to me if I am 95 years old on 1 August. I then reply "I'm getting my retirement check". Then they understand what the big picture is. Lifetime pension my fellow service member. And with the way COLA has been the last 2 years my retirement raises are higher than the AD force. AND whatever the COLA raise is for retirement pay your VA disability pay goes up the same amount so it's like getting 2 raises. Last year 5.9%. This year probably more. They don't hand lifetime pensions out like candy in the civilian world so bite the bullet and finish it up enlisted if you have to. If I recall correctly though I may be wrong I believe that after a certain period you can apply for retirement at your highest attained rank. Regardless some money is better than no money. Finish it up. Good luck to you.

Response by PO3 John DePalma made Jul 28 at 2022 8:14 AM

PO3 John DePalma — Thu, 28 Jul 2022 08:14:39 -0400

First, the person in question must needs apply for an upgrade of discharge; Things change. If one is not required, this person should get a physical fitness test and phycological.

Response by PVT Tony Notimportant made Jul 29 at 2022 8:32 AM

PVT Tony Notimportant — Fri, 29 Jul 2022 08:32:53 -0400

Absolutely not! You don't go reverse in leadership to achieve a retirement. Officer with 16 year's, I'd think going federal in the civilian route would be wise and most likely be more financial gain. I've never heard of a former captain or major walking into MEP's enlisting for a retirement.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2022 4:17 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jul 2022 16:17:35 -0400

You could I guess. I went to the reserve, got promoted and finished my active time.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2022 4:19 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jul 2022 16:19:11 -0400

You could become a government employee and buy your time back into their retirement.

Response by 1LT Mike Schelp made Jul 31 at 2022 12:03 AM

1LT Mike Schelp — Sun, 31 Jul 2022 00:03:27 -0400

I was a 1LT that got caught up in the downsizing, Graham- Rudman and deactivation of the unit I was in. 1989, just before Desert Storm kicked off. My record was good, but hundreds were getting the boot. Long story short, I enlisted, hoping to finish up my career. Yes, it makes sense because you want those years to count for something.

Response by CW5 Les Rayburn made Jul 31 at 2022 10:59 AM

CW5 Les Rayburn — Sun, 31 Jul 2022 10:59:36 -0400

Yes. At some point, your retirement will revert to highest rank held.

Response by LTC George Morgan made Jul 31 at 2022 4:36 PM

LTC George Morgan — Sun, 31 Jul 2022 16:36:01 -0400

Suggest checking out availability of warrant spots before hitting the enlisted spot. Works well if you are eligible, if not definitely try the enlisted.

Response by LTC Karen McKay made Jul 31 at 2022 9:02 PM

LTC Karen McKay — Sun, 31 Jul 2022 21:02:05 -0400

Yes, why not? Getting passed over isn't always fair, objective, or justified.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2022 6:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Aug 2022 06:51:47 -0400

I'm sure that is a personal and professional decision for every individual to make.
I DO know that I served under a CSM who had been a commissioned officer in Vietnam and was apparently RIFed or not picked up. AND, he may well have been the finest CSM I ever had.
Go figure.

Response by Capt Joe Paolilli made Aug 1 at 2022 1:07 PM

Capt Joe Paolilli — Mon, 01 Aug 2022 13:07:54 -0400

When I first enlisted in the late 70’s there were a fair number of riffed officers who finished their 20 as NCO’s. I think at that time they retired at their highest commissioned rank.

Response by PV2 Tina Watkins made Aug 1 at 2022 7:44 PM

PV2 Tina Watkins — Mon, 01 Aug 2022 19:44:10 -0400

Absolutely, don’t just give up your benefits

Response by MAJ Gregory Moon made Aug 1 at 2022 10:17 PM

MAJ Gregory Moon — Mon, 01 Aug 2022 22:17:49 -0400

I did it. I had 17 good years and was in reserver status. It took a while. I enlisted as e-6. There was some sort of GO sign off needed for E7. After 6years I was able to re-commission and got back my captain. I got promoted to MAJ and ran out of time to make LTC. I Ended up with 32 good years. I don't recommend it for career path but I managed it.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Moody made Aug 2 at 2022 8:36 PM

PO2 Lawrence Moody — Tue, 02 Aug 2022 20:36:18 -0400

T.C. Lawrence went from a Colonel to an enlisted man in the British Air Corps because, the Air Corps refused him a commission, but he loved planes so much, so I gather it should be an individual's decision.

Response by MSgt Robert Leffler made Aug 5 at 2022 9:13 AM

MSgt Robert Leffler — Fri, 05 Aug 2022 09:13:55 -0400

Is a retirement 4 years away anything to sneeze at, do the 4, retire and smile as you walk away, knowing you will still retire at the highest rank held. Maybe you will like it and end up doing 14 or more enlisted and retire with even more than a POLM (Passed Over Line Major), A POLM is about the only Officer with 16 years of Service, still awaiting promotion.

Response by Cpl Rosemarie SantaAnna made Aug 15 at 2022 2:03 AM

Cpl Rosemarie SantaAnna — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 02:03:04 -0400

Once see what other jobs available in civilian world, will be willing to GO back & serve!…. I kick my butt now, my 20 years would be over…

Response by CPT Guy Faiette made Aug 15 at 2022 4:42 AM

CPT Guy Faiette — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 04:42:46 -0400

I all depends on whether or not the officer in question can qualify. If there is no age or physical limitation, OK. Enlistment is one thing. Perhaps a Warrant officer commission is better. I knew a former Major from Vietnam, who was a WO4 in the 82nd Airborne Division and he served honorably and I'm certain he was looking forward to his 20 year letter.

Response by Sgt Robert Burlison made Aug 15 at 2022 9:53 AM

Sgt Robert Burlison — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 09:53:33 -0400

When you boil it down the main reason for my nerves to act up and for me to go to the vet psych hospital was very long term unemployment, savings lost in a romance scam which would not have happened if employed and a general downward spiral. I had been ok but just as I was boarding the bus to go home I felt very , well it was hard to stand up. NOW the driver would not let me get one word in as he talked to the lady who just sold her trucking company for big bucks. He had retired from the mil. and from trucking and had only 2 or 3 years more to get his 3rd retirement for driving the gov. bus. YEAH I WAS ENDURING the whole 90 miles back. It took me 30 years to get of the computer suicide list. So, you have completed a big percentage and are still young. H.S. 18, BS/BA 22, Commission 23/24 + 16 = 39/40 years old. 20 civilian years you will be only 60 double retire early.

As for me I am 74 and must wait till 2024 and get elected . to do that I must convince 70 million voters. Then I MUST be as great as my 5th cousin Abe to regain honor this second time. An executive got $20 million for an idea. The US President get $400,000 for managing a Nation, but that's fine. My life would be great. In just one year I can save enough for a fine house in Asia, South Africa, Europe, Central America or here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HVBhYZGrsM OR just over the border in Argentine Patagonia..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooBmsgBFn0U

I finally have a good paying job even though only part-time as assistant in public relations and company rep. I found about 2 acres on Lake Argentine for $69,000. For another $250,000 I should be able to build an ultramodern 2000 to 2500 square foot off-grid home on the land. I have sort of an unofficial adoptive family. One who has always been there in the emergency room or as medics took me away calls me Grandpa and the other, a Philippine military woman and solar business owner calls me PaPa. When you are jobless your whole family leaves you.

Lago Argentina / Bariloche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSniaD32HKU

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Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Aug 15 at 2022 11:28 AM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:28:30 -0400

I would. I saw three MI Aviation CWO4's get put into my MI Officer Advanced Course and then commissioned as O-2s. We voted them to be our Honor Graduates. It was either that or get put out of the force at 16 years service. I've seen several officers enlist to finish their 20 years, most went back in as E-6 or E-7.

Response by CW3 oSteve Bailey made Aug 26 at 2022 4:12 PM

CW3 oSteve Bailey — Fri, 26 Aug 2022 16:12:51 -0400

Absolutely don’t give away 16 years you could do four years standing on your head.

Response by LTC Denis Sullivan made Aug 28 at 2022 8:28 PM

LTC Denis Sullivan — Sun, 28 Aug 2022 20:28:36 -0400

It depends on your life circumstances. I have seen several do it. Another option is to consider applying to become a Warrant Officer, but the potential for that would really depend on what branch you are as an officer.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 28 at 2022 8:39 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sun, 28 Aug 2022 20:39:37 -0400

Absolutely. It would be ridiculous not to.

Response by LCDR Rich Bishop made Aug 29 at 2022 8:40 AM

LCDR Rich Bishop — Mon, 29 Aug 2022 08:40:30 -0400

It's hard to know the circumstances or record of this officer, but any member who serves 10+ years is crazy if they don’t continue with another service, in the reserves or some other method. I have seen this mistake that everyone regrets when they get older. There are too many benefits that all of us have earned and most do not use or obtain when they get older. Complete the career (20) and move on with life.

Response by PO2 James King made Aug 29 at 2022 11:24 AM

PO2 James King — Mon, 29 Aug 2022 11:24:28 -0400

What an absurd question. After 16 years what's 4 more?

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Aug 29 at 2022 11:32 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Mon, 29 Aug 2022 23:32:30 -0400

I can't imagine why he wouldn't

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made Aug 30 at 2022 12:57 AM

SFC Rollie Hubbard — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 00:57:17 -0400

I believe he should be allowed to re-up to finish his time to retirement.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2022 10:07 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Sep 2022 10:07:26 -0400

Yes

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Oct 31 at 2022 10:20 AM

CPO Kurt Baschab — Mon, 31 Oct 2022 10:20:55 -0400

if allowed to do so, Absolutely .
Four Years will go with a Blink of a eye, it is nothing, by doing so, he and his family will receive a check of at least 50% of his highest 3 years, every month for the rest of his life. it like hitting the lottery and receiving X Number of dollars at the 1st of each month for the rest of his life.
people by lottery tickets for this and throw thousands of dollars away for a chance like this, funny all they had to do is stand up and protect and serve this great nation for 20 plus years :)

Response by MAJ Steve Warnerski made Nov 1 at 2022 9:45 AM

MAJ Steve Warnerski — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 09:45:21 -0400

If they are ELIGIBLE...which MOST are NOT. During the drawdown in the 1990s, ONLY OCS officers WITH TIME LEFT on their enlistment prior to OCS could reenlist. ROTC & USMA grads were out the door. Mebbe things / policies have changed?

Response by PVT Mark Whitcomb made Nov 7 at 2022 12:06 PM

PVT Mark Whitcomb — Mon, 07 Nov 2022 12:06:52 -0500

ahhh,
of course you should.

Response by SSgt William Bull made Dec 13 at 2022 10:25 PM

SSgt William Bull — Tue, 13 Dec 2022 22:25:28 -0500

Every time, don't give up.

Response by Maj Michael Leon made Jan 5 at 2023 6:44 PM

Maj Michael Leon — Thu, 05 Jan 2023 18:44:19 -0500

If they can enlist (reason for discharge may determine this) for the last 4 years then go for it. They'll receive their pension at the highest rank attained.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 5 at 2023 7:04 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Thu, 05 Jan 2023 19:04:35 -0500

You need to look at the Officer separation regulation and the regulation that covers eligibility to enlist/reenlist. I researched this for a similar question a while back and I remember reading that prior service officers were ineligible. But can not rember whether it was RC or AD applicable.

Response by LT Talisha Rosen-Kellogg made Jan 6 at 2023 12:07 PM

LT Talisha Rosen-Kellogg — Fri, 06 Jan 2023 12:07:49 -0500

Yes. You retire at the highest grade earned. You can do four years standing on your head. It’s awkward running into folks who used to work for you or who you graduated from school with. But they don’t cash your checks and pride shouldn’t prevent you from getting the retirement you earned.

Response by SSG Stephen Kimball made Jan 6 at 2023 9:03 PM

SSG Stephen Kimball — Fri, 06 Jan 2023 21:03:38 -0500

I had a RIF Major in my AIT class in 1989. He reenlisted and was a SGT. Good man. Didn't know what happened after he left school.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2023 7:16 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jan 2023 19:16:02 -0500

My question is did he have a chance to go down in rank to an nco and finish his 4 years?

Response by COL Ed Mullin made Jan 8 at 2023 7:08 AM

COL Ed Mullin — Sun, 08 Jan 2023 07:08:44 -0500

The simple answer is yes. The best answer depends on the individuals circumstances.

Response by SMSgt Laura Culver made Jan 8 at 2023 12:31 PM

SMSgt Laura Culver — Sun, 08 Jan 2023 12:31:49 -0500

Why not?

Response by SFC Jan Goodman made Jan 8 at 2023 10:09 PM

SFC Jan Goodman — Sun, 08 Jan 2023 22:09:47 -0500

I almost got out after 10, but I stuck it out and stayed for my twenty. I am so glad I did. It led to other good things when I retired and now I have three retirements. Get your butt back in and do that twenty. You might even find things are to your liking now and stay for more. Good Luck

Response by LCDR Robert Luckie made Jan 9 at 2023 12:29 AM

LCDR Robert Luckie — Mon, 09 Jan 2023 00:29:41 -0500

At a minimum you could go into the reserves for 4 years, retire and start collecting retirement pay at age 60.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2023 11:30 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Jan 2023 11:30:14 -0500

Join the Reserves, volunteer for deployments to get activated under Title 10, add that time to your active duty time and get over the hump of 17-years of active military service, then ride out the last three years to get to 20. Of course, all of this only works to get you a pension assuming you chose the traditional retirement selection when the DoD changed the retirement options.

Response by 1SG Paul Ayotte made Jan 9 at 2023 11:45 AM

1SG Paul Ayotte — Mon, 09 Jan 2023 11:45:45 -0500

If he was Discharged at 16 yrs, there are many other factors that come into play before making the decision.
Short answer, YES.

Response by CMSgt Keith Hennek made Jan 16 at 2023 10:00 PM

CMSgt Keith Hennek — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 22:00:51 -0500

Without a doubt. You're older now, probably more mature, and may even find that the extra 4 years may afford the oportunity for that promotion. Of course your Commander will more than likely want to get a committment from you, but you can't beat the benefits. Don't pass up an oportunity of a lifetime over a missed promotion. I was passed over several times and I didn't let that get in my way. I just dug in harder to make sure it didn't happen the next time. You have to remember there is one slot that is going to get filled with that promotion and there are probably three or four others that are competing against you for the same oportunity. Make sure you shine above all the others, keep your head above water and if you stumble get back up and do it all over again until you get iot right. Your day will come.

Response by Sgt Ed Allen made Jan 28 at 2023 3:40 AM

Sgt Ed Allen — Sat, 28 Jan 2023 03:40:38 -0500

Why not? He wasn't discharged with the Big Chicken Dinner, Dishonorably or under other than honorable conditions. If he is willing to put up with the politics and the BS than he deserves to be able to serve to complete his 20 years.

Response by SSG(P) Brian Kliesen made Feb 14 at 2023 11:25 AM

SSG(P) Brian Kliesen — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 11:25:19 -0500

How else is the Reserves and National Guard going to get their broken down, useless, sleeping on the job, angry, no PT, mental patient, blue falcon, epitome of the green weenie, disgruntled, toxic leadership if they don't pick up on the officer corps that has been tossed away and discharged from Active Duty? Things would certainly be a lot less interesting if we actually didn't have to worry about that one or two officers who seem to make every day a challenge, make meetings last hours longer, deny, deny, deny, send out those amazing long emails that can take weeks to decipher, question everything but their own authority and bring their amazing ability to drop in as the 'good idea fairy' and then wander off, having sewn the seeds of chaos to disappear for another half day to get a cup of coffee. What would the Army be then?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2023 4:25 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 16:25:22 -0500

I say go back in and finish the 4 years. May not get grandfathered into the old retirement system.

Response by SSG Lj Corley made Feb 20 at 2023 4:28 PM

SSG Lj Corley — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 16:28:58 -0500

As Major Garbarini states, Absolutely, these days, a few extra bucks coming into your pocket is certainly nothing to shun. Hurry up and do the time; retirement is good. There are wonderful adventures to get into.

Response by SFC Catherine Argyle made Feb 24 at 2023 3:11 PM

SFC Catherine Argyle — Fri, 24 Feb 2023 15:11:56 -0500

As long as they are eligible for enlistment then there's no reason they shouldn't. They can do at least the 4 years if not more and will retire at the highest rank they held.

Response by TSgt George Austin made Feb 27 at 2023 12:51 PM

TSgt George Austin — Mon, 27 Feb 2023 12:51:56 -0500

YES. It is what you do not know that will get you. Right after retiring I became ill. Since 96 I have lived with a 6 months to 3 years sentence because of the illness. The Tricare coverage pays out more than my retired pay. My Express-Scripts runs 2K a month. With a 70/30 split like normal insurance I would be dead. You can only go bankrupt every 7 years. Stay and pray.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Feb 28 at 2023 4:22 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Tue, 28 Feb 2023 16:22:00 -0500

Absolutely, the benefits far exceed the four years of enlisted duty. Thank You for your Service.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Mar 1 at 2023 7:58 PM

PO1 Todd McMillin — Wed, 01 Mar 2023 19:58:17 -0500

While I actually know a person who was in this boat. Said officer had been doing the bare minimum at their job and oftentimes did whatever they could to avoid assignments as much as possible during their career path which they presumed would simply make their way up to O-6 and retire at 20 years in service.

The fact that their own Commanding Officer laughed at their self-written awards and justification for promotion was karma. Since they clearly didn't deserve it because of being one of the last of the "Underwater Basket Weavers" Degrees vs actual career related degrees such as Electrical Engineering or even Logistics Management and Support.

I found it rather hypocritical since 2001 the Military is now forcing Senior Enlisted Personnel to get at least an Associates' Degree in their MOS/NEC to pass beyond E-6. With what free time do they have to do this with?

I mean it's one thing when you're on a shore duty rotation where you can do weekends to get the degree if they can because they're usually exhausted and stressed out from doing other regular duties. From writing watch bills to handling the petty conflicts between shops and departments in many cases because of upper management's egos and idiotic when they're trying to get ahead.

The fact that because of the 45th President's incompetence and malfeasance it allowed several officers to get away with returning to uniform and retiring under the Biden Administration. When they clearly should have been told nope and given the boot like they do to Senior Enlisted whom have overstayed they're welcome in the military service.

It's always funny how the Military is full of Double and Triple Standards in regards to regulation and the gross hypocrisy they have no problem demonstrating it. Like when they expect the Enlisted to do 3-5 times the work the Officers do anymore. In fact the amount of Officer's paychecks for work they are barely competent or qualified in is laughable at best. Especially when their Senior Enlisted are usually the ones doing 80% of the workload for them like a modern day Butler; just with less pay. All they get in the end is a Gold Watch and Lousy Pension for it in comparison to Officer's Retirement Pay.

Honestly, I find it laughable since many Officers who only made it to O-3 and got let go at 20 years were able to play in off into getting hired into managerial positions in the Federal Government often in areas where they clearly had no business being in. What is more ironic is that those people then get to combine their Military and Federal Service to get event fatter retirement checks and barely are able to do their jobs without causing more harm than good in their employment in the Federal Government. It would be less dangerous to spin the wheel and let random chance be the result.

Response by CPT Susan Marie Lee made Mar 4 at 2023 11:36 AM

CPT Susan Marie Lee — Sat, 04 Mar 2023 11:36:16 -0500

Absolutely! This is your chance to find a reserve unit where you can get promoted! I served 6 years in the Navy. I was at a career impass as far as I was concerned. I left and joined the Army Reserve. I wet to Officer candidate school, while finishing my degree. I retired with 20 years as a Captain. Now I am 60 and starting my retirement pay. I am so glad I did not give it up! $2000 a month is awesome when you get to this age. You will make more because of your length of active duty service. Don't give up now! You only need 4 years. Don't let all those years of service go to waste!!! Get those benefits you worked for for all those years!!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2023 12:43 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Mar 2023 12:43:02 -0400

That's a tough one to answer and only you can truly answer. To me, it would depend on the field you are or trying to get into. For example: if you're IT with a degree certs and experience, getting out at anytime is a no brainer because after a few years, your earning potential can exceed 150K, meaning a small, 1500-2000 pension is not that much. A 4 yr headstart would have you exceeding what you would make if with a military pension, if you wait to start a new career after 20 yrs.

Response by SGT James Colbert made Mar 23 at 2023 4:41 PM

SGT James Colbert — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 16:41:33 -0400

First off it is what you want to do...second if you re enlist..can they guarantee 4 years...you can get 6 or 8 years ..or if you do...you would be what they call " needs of the army" meaning. The army can send you anywhere they want. 4 years left..if you go civilian job like GS..you can buy all that time back and have less civilian or federal time to make ot to retirement. Needs of the army , is not what you want ....like senior NCO SFC MSG SGM..CSM..Those are needs of the army spots...But it is definitely a " come to jesus" conversation if you have family and kids and pcs vs. Ets. If you get out..I don't know what resigning your commission does for retirement or anything... it's just might be a " shit or get off the pot" moment as the infantry would say.. as an SGT ..i can just give you my opinion.

Response by SFC Mike Medynski made Mar 24 at 2023 5:16 AM

SFC Mike Medynski — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 05:16:18 -0400

I went back in.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Mar 25 at 2023 9:28 AM

1SG James Kelly — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 09:28:26 -0400

Yes.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Mar 25 at 2023 10:53 AM

SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 10:53:15 -0400

Absolutely. As an Enlisted Officer (Sergeant First Class) I served with several other Enlisted Officers that had been Commissioned Officers that had gone through a reduction in force. Finish out the 20 and retire.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Mar 26 at 2023 11:28 PM

1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) — Sun, 26 Mar 2023 23:28:47 -0400

There are far to may factors in this equation for simplistic answers provided by a panel of Rally Point "Experts". Do your research and find out what is best for your specific situation. First step would be to seek the advise and expertise from a Recruiter. He or she can sift through all the piles of what-ifs and give you some valid guidance.

Response by CMSgt Elbert E. Clayton made Mar 27 at 2023 12:10 PM

CMSgt Elbert E. Clayton — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 12:10:56 -0400

No! Take all the benefits you may or may not have accumulated. Be sure to document any and all past and current medical issues, Awards, Time in Service, Time in Grade, Overseas and Foreign service, and Officer Performance Reports on your DD Form 214, Discharge Document. Then accept the discharge, get out and then run for the highest political office you feel comfortable with. As you rise in the political hierarchy, use your status to challenge those higher grade "know it all's" who by the luck of the draw in many cases were rewarded for their "Me Tooism's" careers. Learn how to operate with a "get even with" attitude, because it may be how you got non-selected for promotion. Be sure to start a Veterans' Administration (VA) claim for any and all medical issues. If the claim is denied, keep the documentation, because believe me, as you age many of the denied claims will become very real and easily verified (if you live through the emergency hospitalizations).

Response by PO3 Dan Letlow made Mar 27 at 2023 12:40 PM

PO3 Dan Letlow — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 12:40:58 -0400

one of the less cerebral choices i made was not staying in the reserves; wouldn't be big, but that small check would help make things easier now

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made Mar 27 at 2023 10:48 PM

CW3 Harvey K. — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 22:48:20 -0400

Absolutely. I would not hesitate a moment to be, or advise another to be, a "gentleman ranker" as they were referred to in the British army.
I worked with a WO who quit the Army with just a few years to go, in hopes of saving his marriage. It did not work, so both marriage and career were a "blivot". He was too old to enlist in the Reserves when I met him, so even that was out.

Response by Amn Douglas St. Clair made Mar 30 at 2023 11:57 AM

Amn Douglas St. Clair — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 11:57:07 -0400

Yes. Other alternatives include a government civilian job that will let you count military time served toward the civilian pension. I RIFed and enlisted back into the USMC as a warrant officer to finish out 20 for his pension. I also had an NCO who told us repeatedly, "anyone who gets out under 30 is a quitter."

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Mar 30 at 2023 7:03 PM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 19:03:17 -0400

UH,,,, YA!!
Ya THINK....??
That Question Falls Into The Classification Of
~ "DUH" ~

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Mar 31 at 2023 1:11 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 01:11:12 -0400

Yes, another 4 years and at retirement they would still retire at the Highest rank held. I've seen Officers who were passed over a third time and then held enlisted rank until they actually retired and did so in the highest officer rank they had served in. One Major I knew entered the enlisted rank as a Tech. Sergeant, (Five stripes) but once He retired it was a a Major. It was interesting also seeing Him wear pilot wings on and enlisted uniform but as an Officer He had actually been a pilot and earned those wings. He did end up being a pretty good NCO after His service as an officer and in the enlisted field did get promoted to MSgt.

Response by GySgt Jack Wallace made Mar 31 at 2023 8:59 AM

GySgt Jack Wallace — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 08:59:21 -0400

Yes Sir, you should Skipper.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 31 at 2023 11:24 AM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 11:24:13 -0400

Absolutely, I had a commander who passed over (long story, he had failed a unit within a group, and a few months later he was assigned to that Group in another detachment. We had a very petty Col who screwed his evals). He reverted back to E-5 after being a unit Commander. We had nothing but respect for the guy, and we all thought he got the shaft.

Response by CW3 Don Malay made Apr 18 at 2023 12:26 PM

CW3 Don Malay — Tue, 18 Apr 2023 12:26:02 -0400

As Major G stated why give up a retirement check? I worked with an Army aviator Major who I heard was passed over for a promotion he was gone for a few months only to return as a CW2. He would then be allowed to stay in the Army as long as he gets promoted to CW3, CW4, and so on but still retire as a Major.

Response by SPC Terry Martin made May 1 at 2023 3:23 AM

SPC Terry Martin — Mon, 01 May 2023 03:23:08 -0400

Yes, shouldn't have been discharged.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2023 6:51 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 May 2023 06:51:37 -0400

Yes you schould. You are 3/4 there. So just finish the mission. The health care is worth it in the end.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2023 2:48 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 May 2023 14:48:56 -0400

In my batallion there is an E6 who was a former Major in the navy. He left the navy & then came over to the army enlisted. So I would say it's legal & yes. It's their career. As long as the regs are upheld & met why wouldn't he. Seems weird but oh well.

Response by SSG Wayne Wood made May 1 at 2023 11:40 PM

SSG Wayne Wood — Mon, 01 May 2023 23:40:57 -0400

Why not?
My last battery commander in Germany failed to make Major and was separated. I heard the rock in his rucksack was education, not to mention he had a load of family problems, such as a daughter with MS. I wonder if it affected his duty performance. When he got to our unit he was pretty much a broken man, I ran into a guy who'd served with him in Nam who spoke highly of him. He called him one of the best officers he'd ever served under. I got shanghaied into being his driver my last Graf and there were times we'd be sitting in the jeep late at night talking and I'd see traces of the guy the fellow described. Sad. I don't know how it turned out for him, I do know he left the service.

I'd never thought he might have the option to turn around and enlist and finish his career.

I came in at the tail-end of the Vietnam Era. There were literally thousands of officers who ran afoul of the RIF (Reduction in Force). I recall reading somewhere there were close to ten thousand or so chopper pilots alone sent home - just to have a shortage in the early 80s.

For many captains the choice was to take the RIF (there was a cash kicker involved depending on Time in Service and base pay) or take a reduction in rank to SSG E-6. I knew several NCOs who had taken the demotion to finish their retirement. I know it had to sting, but...

In the 82nd DivArty in the early 80s the DivArty S-3 (or AS-3?) was a Major who was one of those guys who'd make you want to buy your own beer. His Operations NCO was an older MSG who was one of the greatest guys you'd ever want to meet.

I learned the backstory behind those two. It turned out the MSG had been the Major's battery commander in Vietnam when the Major was a new Lieutenant. The MSG had gotten caught in the RIF (again, education) and taken the reduction to SSG. In the intervening years he had risen through the enlisted ranks to E-8 and the Airborne Community being what it was back then (the old "Airborne Mafia") had found himself working for his old lieutenant. There was an interesting chemistry between those two.

Another case was when I was working S-3 with 18th Field Artillery Brigade (Abn) when it was still XVIII Abn Corps Artillery. Our MSG/Operations NCO was another former officer who had come down on the RIF and taken the reduction to SSG/E-6. But he'd been smart and managed to retain a reserve commission. Every year he would go on his two weeks active duty as a reserve officer - I'd always wondered about the administrative side of that - whether he had to take a leave or what. The thing is , he'd not only worked his way up through the enlisted ranks, but he'd gotten promoted in the reserve to the point his reserve rank was Colonel.

The year I was with the Brigade (I transferred to the 82nd that winter) he did his Summer training at Bragg; one of the NCOs said he did that every year. He got a kick out of coming into the shop in a Colonel's uniform and having his boss, a Lieutenant Colonel call him sir.

It's a funny thing, the day I was medically discharged from the Army for my injuries I went to visit the 82nd Abn Division Museum one more time before I took the uniform off for the last time. I pulled up to see his retirement ceremony; he'd made Command Sergeant Major. I was able to hang around and shake his hand. I've often wondered what his reserve rank was when he retired. This was 1987.

But yes, I'd finish my time - perhaps you can keep a reserve commission. I don't know what the regulations are these days.

Response by GySgt Dianne Young made May 5 at 2023 6:04 PM

GySgt Dianne Young — Fri, 05 May 2023 18:04:50 -0400

Yes; for the pension and retirement benefits, especially during this time of difficulty attracting/retaining service members. Or, see if another branch will accept him/her as an officer.

Response by LTC Robert Kurth made Jun 5 at 2023 2:39 PM

LTC Robert Kurth — Mon, 05 Jun 2023 14:39:42 -0400

No need to re-enlist to achieve retirement benefits. Keep your commission and stay in the Army Reserve. Find a position in a troop program unit (TPU) that will support your MOS. You are more likely to find such a position in one of the training divisions. You want to find such a position in a unit like 75th Division (Training). This is a reserve unit that contains officer/NCO teams of all different branches of the service. The unit's mission is to train Army Reserve and National Guard Battalion and Brigade staffs through innovative exercises and computer simulations. You can easily accumulate the 60 points per year you need to get a good year in, and likely be able to remain until you hit your MRD. Further, there are ample opportunities there for extended schooling and additional Active Duty for Training (ADT) that would enable you to obtain up to around 120 points per year. It you have completed your OBC, and OAC you'll be quickly promoted the grade you missed while on Active Duty (assuming that was Major). You will be able to attend CAS3 and CGSOC through the Army Reserve Schools that are out there as well (and you can also get retirement points for that as well whether or not you receive pay for them, although you will receive pay for the ADT portions of those schools anyway). I was in a similar position as you and did what I advise, although I did not immediately jump into it. I draw something like a 35% retirement check as a result. Jump into this NOW and you might still get close to a 50% retirement check since you already have 16 years. Units such as the ones I suggested NEED the experience you have as many of these teams are run by guys who only attended OBC and then went straight into the Reserve/Guard. They have book knowledge, but not any real experience. You have both.