Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
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SMSgt Operations Superintendent
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The Air Force was never intended to be a ground fighting unit. Back in the day, AF bases were protected by Army units for that very same reason. The ground fighting component of the AF is SF. Among our many duties, being the infantry of the AF is one of them. I started my military career in the Army and I will tell you that the AF as a whole was never designed to operate like the Army or Marines. The culture is completely different, and for good reason. The AF could not operate under the same culture as the Army or Marines. In SF, weapons are a tool for us. For the majority of the AF, a weapon is not a tool that they use in their day to day duties. ANd frankly, it should not be. I used to be CATM, and I can tell you that keeping an M-4 away from most AF members is a good thing.
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LTC Ronald Stephens
LTC Ronald Stephens
1 mo
I have a son in the AF. Where he's stationed he has to qualify every 2 years. With that said I made sure he would shoot expert every time he does qualify. I always shot expert when I was on AD except the first time I shot the M16. Fixed that in a hurry.
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Maj Martin Smith
Maj Martin Smith
1 mo
I had to qualify on an M-16 before I could go to Vietnam in August of '65. I PCSed as a 1st Lt. from Kincheloe AFB, MI. Had previously qualified in OTS with a .38 caliber S&W revolver.
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Maj Robert Larkowski
Maj Robert Larkowski
21 d
I think that some has forgotten that when you do deploy to a hostile environment, that weapons training was a requirement for all.
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PO3 Cecil Kirk
PO3 Cecil Kirk
11 d
CPO Arthur Weinberger - I was at BMU-2 (Beachmaster Unit Two) and we recieved small arms training on the m-16, m-60, m-79 (grenade launcher), 1911A1 pistol and a 9mm baretta as well as a 12gauge shotgun. Only radiomen got the .45 and 12gauge training (mostly for destruction and comm van security) but everyone on the teams was trained in all the other weapons. We also qualified on the M16 and 9mm or .45. I was trained well enough to qualify expert on both rifle and .45. I know this is not the norm for the Navy, I just happened to be one of the lucky ones to be called a Beachmaster.
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PO1 John Miller
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Completely in jest. I have seen people in all branches who should be permanently downloaded (having their weapons privileges revoked).
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SFC Ernest Thurston
SFC Ernest Thurston
2 mo
Amn Jennifer Lee (Doerflinger) Hill - That's OK the AF will give you glasses
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PO1 Steve Mitchell
PO1 Steve Mitchell
1 mo
I served in both the Army and the Navy. I carried a M16, M203 and a M60 off and on over a 6 year period. Then I enlisted in the Navy as a Gunners Mate. So I qualified on all of the above depending on where I was stationed with the addition of the M14, M79, M1911, and the model 10 .38 pistol. I did a 2 year tour in Gtmo Bay as Security Police. I went through Lakehurst for my training but with all the cutbacks, the Navy and AF combined Security schools and I started getting the grads from Lackland...I had my work cut out for me on the rifle range.
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CPO Arthur Weinberger
CPO Arthur Weinberger
1 mo
Quite true. However basic weaponery and martial should be part of all branches on a regular basis. My feelings. Physical fitness and basic train are now a joke.
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SPC Fred Scholl
SPC Fred Scholl
2 d
They may not know how to shoot, but they sure know how to eat.
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Col Joseph Lenertz
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Everyone sees things through their own experiences. If I were an AF Security Forces officer, I might share your opinion. As a pilot, I was required to qualify annually on my assigned personal weapon, the M-9, because aircrew members deploy more than other AF personnel. So far that makes sense. So why not go to the much bigger effort and expense of making us like the Army or Marine Corps and force every Airman to qualify annually? To put it as simply as possible, because there is a fixed amount of time and money, and there isn't an Air Force base in Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else we fight. When deployed, we generally either to deploy to large Airbases in-country with our Army, Navy, and Marine brethren (who are responsible to protect the base) or out-of-country where the threat is much lower (SA, Qatar, Bahrain, etc). I know there are exceptions, especially for our Special Forces community...but then they are qualified on their personal weapons, aren't they? In order to be the best at Our Job as Airmen, we spend our time and money on training aircrew, mechanics, and all the other support functions necessary to keep airpower supporting the Joint Force Commander. If we spent lots of time and money to be like the Army and the Marines, we would be better infantrymen but worse airmen.
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CAPT Hiram Patterson
CAPT Hiram Patterson
10 d
CSM John Mead - That has made total sense since WW1. Obviously the AF has people like PJ's and others who are armed and literally go in harm's way. Having been a part of the Navy medical community (physician or otherwise) we are/were always armed when deployed to a war zone but only for defensive purposes.
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CSM John Mead
CSM John Mead
10 d
CAPT Hiram Patterson - Roger that, sir. Rules of engagement and various agreements dictate that while medical personnel may be armed, it's for defense only. I can't think of too many situations when a medical personnel was ever truly protected from being fired upon. The Japanese, North Koreans, North Vietnamese regulars and irregulars, Muslim insurgents have never respected the sanctity of the red cross on a white background and therefore our people have always been at their mercy.
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SGT Richard Gocio
SGT Richard Gocio
1 d
That explains why the Army chow was so bad, we taught our cooks to shoot, operate and perform PMCS on crew served weapons and vehicles, Not Cook. ;-) Seriously, I knew Master Chefs who could prepare awesome meals and still qualify expert on the range. Basic Rifleman skills are essential to having a military uniform on, Air Force and Coast Guard included.
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SMSgt Ed Turney
SMSgt Ed Turney
9 h
Col. your thinking is that of a "Bean Counter". My grandson is now an AD NCO USAF and he claims I've taught him more about his M-4 and Beretta than the USAF ever did. He is now also trained on the M-17 also Thank you Grandpap. He is in a job that requires weapon caring regularly, and it is not SP's. Cyber transport. Yes when he comes home we do a lot of range time.
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