Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
290K
3.86K
1.78K
459
459
0
Carbine-backwards-mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited 6 y ago
Avatar_feed
Responses: 803
SMSgt Operations Superintendent
423
422
1
The Air Force was never intended to be a ground fighting unit. Back in the day, AF bases were protected by Army units for that very same reason. The ground fighting component of the AF is SF. Among our many duties, being the infantry of the AF is one of them. I started my military career in the Army and I will tell you that the AF as a whole was never designed to operate like the Army or Marines. The culture is completely different, and for good reason. The AF could not operate under the same culture as the Army or Marines. In SF, weapons are a tool for us. For the majority of the AF, a weapon is not a tool that they use in their day to day duties. ANd frankly, it should not be. I used to be CATM, and I can tell you that keeping an M-4 away from most AF members is a good thing.
(423)
Comment
(1)
Cpl Mark Sullivan
Cpl Mark Sullivan
1 mo
Security force is not infantry
(2)
Reply
(0)
MSgt Gilbert Jones
MSgt Gilbert Jones
1 mo
That must have been way back in the day. I joined the AF in 1960 and we were taught to use our weapons and qualify on the range. My first assignment was in the Air Police (Security Police) SAC established Combat Defense Teams which sole responsibility was to protect the base and aircraft. SAC had a penetration team that would travel to different SAC bases and try to penetrate it. Those were fun times!
(0)
Reply
(0)
MSgt Aircraft Structural Maintenance
MSgt (Join to see)
1 mo
SMSgt (Join to see) what to you is a vast majority? If Maintenance (always the largest group), supply, and CE are not directly supporting those that are in direct combat, then no one does. Everyone has a part to play, including finance, services, and medical but if you get down to it, without maintance and ops, and supply there is no combat operations committed by the Air Force.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Alfred DiGiacomo
SSgt Alfred DiGiacomo
1 mo
When I joined the U S Army Air Force in 1943 we first had basic training which included firing our rifles at large Targets . Then later I also fired a Machine Gun making expert. When I was in England we were issued Carbines and I had to give up my Machine guns
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small
PO1 John Miller
327
327
0
Real_firefight
Completely in jest. I have seen people in all branches who should be permanently downloaded (having their weapons privileges revoked).
(327)
Comment
(0)
PO3 John Priest
PO3 John Priest
3 mo
Hey hey, we're not all Stormtroopers here, some of us can hit the broadside of the USS Gerald R. Ford! (and sometimes much smaller targets).
(1)
Reply
(0)
Sgt Bob Lamb
Sgt Bob Lamb
3 mo
Hahahhaha love it
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO1 Jeff Spehar
PO1 Jeff Spehar
2 mo
PO1 Larry Sirmans - Same as me. Was 11B10 in the Army, went into the Navy and eventually became a YN. Retired in 1994.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSG Edward Tilton
SSG Edward Tilton
2 mo
Could be good advice. The Marine has probably expended all of his and you aren’t doing anything with yours
(5)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small
Col Joseph Lenertz
321
321
0
Everyone sees things through their own experiences. If I were an AF Security Forces officer, I might share your opinion. As a pilot, I was required to qualify annually on my assigned personal weapon, the M-9, because aircrew members deploy more than other AF personnel. So far that makes sense. So why not go to the much bigger effort and expense of making us like the Army or Marine Corps and force every Airman to qualify annually? To put it as simply as possible, because there is a fixed amount of time and money, and there isn't an Air Force base in Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else we fight. When deployed, we generally either to deploy to large Airbases in-country with our Army, Navy, and Marine brethren (who are responsible to protect the base) or out-of-country where the threat is much lower (SA, Qatar, Bahrain, etc). I know there are exceptions, especially for our Special Forces community...but then they are qualified on their personal weapons, aren't they? In order to be the best at Our Job as Airmen, we spend our time and money on training aircrew, mechanics, and all the other support functions necessary to keep airpower supporting the Joint Force Commander. If we spent lots of time and money to be like the Army and the Marines, we would be better infantrymen but worse airmen.
(321)
Comment
(0)
Col Joseph Lenertz
Col Joseph Lenertz
1 mo
SPC Kortney Kistler - I like the quote. I respect such bravery in the face of the WWI meatgrinder it made out of men. Pvt Treptow was a hero. I don't understand how the quote applies to this topic though.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Alfred DiGiacomo
SSgt Alfred DiGiacomo
1 mo
My Father Frank was an Infantry man in World War 1 with the 77 Division. He was a member of the Lost Battalion which were surrounded for 5 days . 500 walked in 200 walked out.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Russell Stevens
SSgt Russell Stevens
1 mo
Col Joseph Lenertz - I averaged 300+ days per year from 1989 - 1994
(1)
Reply
(0)
MSgt Brandy Epps
MSgt Brandy Epps
24 d
Col Lenertz, Being Air Force myself, and a Radiology Technologist we do indeed deploy to Bagram AB in Afghanistan and Balad AB in Iraq and many other places in both countries, not just Qatar and Kuwait. I spent 7 months at Bagram and we helped transition into CJTH from Bhuts in 2007.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close