Posted on Sep 6, 2015
SGM C2 Sergeant Major
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I have worked with all the services frequently during my career. I see the ups and downs in each service. The Army seems to have the biggest attitude towards itself though. I would like to hear thoughts as to why Soldiers seems to talk bad or dislike the service that I love. Some may disagree this is true, but I do not think I am off base by stating this.

****FOLLOW UP QUESTION****

Do you think it is possible for the Army to ever show the universal pride in service that the USMC does?
Edited >1 y ago
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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I don't think it's a comparative lack of pride in so much as it's the way it's "focused."

In the Marine Corps, we are very focused at the "Corps level" when it comes to pride. Just being a Marine. We don't really have "Unit" or "Branch" pride in the same sense that the Army does. But Marines talk smack the same way the Army does. we have our "haters" but being a much smaller service, and being much more geographically isolated also limits that exposure greatly.

But back to the Army. I think the Army tends to be much more "diversive" when it comes to culture. Legs vs Airborne, Ranger vs Ranger Qualified, Cav vs whatever Cav goes against. Then you get into the Units themselves, each with their own DEEP history and traditions. And then Branches, which I really have a hard time wrapping my head around. All we really have is Ground vs Wing... and we still deploy as MAGTFs.

This is just an outsider looking in.
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SSG Unit Supply Specialist
SSG (Join to see)
17 d
Lol, no one has more pride in the Army in my experience than the Engineers. They will throw down for that castle and the color red. I have been an MP, AV, and Quartermaster. Its definitely a branch pride thing in the Army.
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SSG John Eroh
SSG John Eroh
17 d
As a retired Army Signal Corps SSG I have a lot of pride in my service but have more pride in being Signal Corps, especially of being fixed station versus tactical communications for my 20 years. Our technical standards were higher than for tactical commo where "good enough" was accepted. At one site, a E-6 who had come from a tactical background was told by the4 site chief to go by what I said because my whole background was in fixed commo. Didn't make the E-6 happy but going by what he though was OK would have brought some heat down. So we fixed guys did/do have a lot of pride.
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SSG John Eroh
SSG John Eroh
17 d
SSG John Eroh - Tahe fixed commo MOS's usually required a higher GT & EL test scores too. We didn't express our pride to others as much but between each other we would put down others.
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PO1 Ron Clark
PO1 Ron Clark
16 d
I think that because the Marines are the President's force, and can be ordered to hot spots without Congressional Approvement, this stands in the minds of the Marines, that they are almost always first to get to fight and this instills a special pride in them to be the best at what they do. This being said, In my 27 years I have yet to see a "Real" Army soldier i.e., "those who want to be in the Army", lacking pride. They too exhibit pride and professionalism, each branch has members who needs extra motivation, those who dont show the espirit de corp they way the service intends. This can be soldiered off if someone hopefully senior, mentors those individuals properly and help them along so they too can be proud of their profession.
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GySgt Robin Boggs
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Marine boot camp is a transformation process. It may seem superficial, but Marines are EXPECTED to project a certain image when wearing the uniform; their success is reflected in their individual evaluations throughout their careers. Does this universal expectation exist in the Army, or is it up to the individual or the unit? I remember seeing a group of loud, chubby young women in BDUs hanging out and thinking to myself they would look just as at home in the ghetto except for the uniform. The transformation (basic training), the organization's expectations, and the image that the service members project all have a part in the input (recruits) and output of a particular branch of service. Maybe the Army just doesn't expect enough, so it's left to the individual soldier--some of whom are superstars.
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SSG Paul Forel
SSG Paul Forel
4 mo
Along the lines of this particular thread- I was walking along with some fellow Army National Guard soldiers after a day of training at Pine Bluff, AR. We were from all over the country, having volunteered for this training. As we walked along -it was dusk and getting darker- we saw a group of soldiers talking in a small group. Some were slouching as they stood, hands in their pockets, some were sitting on the steps of the barracks next to them, some were leaning against the building. No need to wonder what branch of the service they were in. As we walked further along, we saw another group of military personnel standing together in a group. Their uniforms all looked exactly the same, none were sitting, slouching or leaning, none had their hands in their pockets and they all stood in a loose form of 'attention'. 'Check it out', I said. "Some Marines! Wonder what they are doing here?" Someone questioned my 'knowing' they were Marines, especially since it was getting too dark to see details but as we got closer, it was obvious they were just that, MARINES. It has always been my observation that when we are on duty, us Army types are ON but when we are off duty, we are OFF. Marines are always ON.
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LCpl Matt P.
LCpl Matt P.
4 mo
Another take on how the Marines differ from all the other branches of service, at the end of basic training, each recruit earns the title of Marine, this is the first time they are referred to or can claim that title, we become a Marine, from that day and forever after. Joining the Army, you become a Soldier, Navy, a Seaman, Air Force, an Air man. A Marine becomes, at graduation of boot camp, a newborn individual and a part of the whole at the same instant. No one becomes an Army or a Navy or an Air Force, but a Marine...well, that says it all, The individual title of A Marine and a part of the greater body of THE Marines.
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Edward Samsen
Edward Samsen
3 mo
LCpl Matt P. - I have for many years participated in events at the Festival of Sails San Diego with the USCG Auxiliary. During the afternoon on Friday, you often came across family groups including newly made Marines fresh from graduation at MCRD . THe auxiliarists on duty never failed to congradulate the newly made Marines with a salute and Congradulations MARINE.
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SPC J Juliano
SPC J Juliano
1 mo
I spent 4 years in a Marine unit and 3 as army. I can say unequivocally that the marine corps builds pride, strong character and more physically than the army does. The army has some great people but for the basic training they are more of a factory to get the recruits through. Afterwards only if a soldier decides to go into airborne or sf do they receive the similar marine corps character but marines do have a uniquely developed sense of personal build inside the individual that is achieved at the basic training level and carried throughout the career and life.
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CSM Michael J. Uhlig
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65
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We like to say we empower our Junior Enlisted, the USMC actually empowers theirs....why do we hold back the rank of CPL, while the USMC has it as a normal progression for them....are we scared to trust our subordinates? When is the last time you've trained with a Marine unit or been on a base, it is constant training - all day, whether combatives, weapons, shooting, more weapons......we have to remember what our task is, and when we get away from our mission which is to kill the enemy (not wearing fluffy socks)......
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CPT Alfred Smiley
CPT Alfred Smiley
9 mo
In my day, promotion to SP/4 in the Combat Arms came pretty much like clockwork at about 18 months TIS.
My oldest son was a Marine and I wondered if there was a problem when it took him close to three years to make Corporal. Then I met other young Marines who were also not making Corporal until about three years of service. Granted, they all tended to be aircraft mechanics and avionics technicians, so maybe that had a lot to do with it.
Maybe it just takes longer to train a soldier or Marine to be a Corporal (a bona fide NCO) than it does to be an SP/4 (essentially a very experienced private).
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GySgt Joe Strong
GySgt Joe Strong
9 mo
In addition, I don't think most Army folks recognize(due to the extreme cultural differences) that it's not just NCO's that are different in the Corps. If you have two Marine Privates a minute into their first assignment out of bootcamp, one of them is responsible for the other and their actions. When 4 of them are assigned a room in the Barracks, while their Fire Team & Squad Leaders(None of which may be NCO's and in Infantry Units are likely Lance Corporals (a non-NCO rank) are Responsible for them, so is the Senior Man in the room for the state of the Room. Responsibility in the Corps doesn't wait until you are wearing the Stripes of an NCO.
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GySgt Joe Strong
GySgt Joe Strong
9 mo
CPT Alfred Smiley - In my memory the Corps structure tends to run along the line of 6 mo out of Bootcamp and no trouble promote to PFC(E-2) automatically, I want to say another year to Lance Corporal(E-3), but that's reliant on the Cutting Score system. The Corps being much smaller it's run much like a Marina - we actually use?/used the term Boat Spaces. If the person who was in the Boat space above you (in your MOS & Rank) hadn't moved on then your field hadn't "opened up" that boat space for someone to move up into it. Your Proficiency & Conduct Scores, Time in Grade/Time in Service, Physical Fitness Scores, Rifle Range, Professional Military Education & Civilian Education all combine to produce your Cutting Score. The Corps counts up how many Boat Spaces exist, finds the cutting scores of all the folks in the field, looks for the number that matches the number of boat spaces they have, and we now have selected that promotion windows cutting score for each MOS & Rank. If you are in a slow promoting field that number gets higher & higher as it has to account for how long people are staying in to attempt to reach that score, because at some point you "Max out" everything you can affect. Now if there are Boat Spaces available, then Corps wide some percentage of them are reserved for Meritorious Promotions and parceled down to subordinate commands to fill thru Meritorious Boards etc. But that's why you don't see promotions happening equally across MOS's in the Corps up through Sergeant. After Sergeant, the process becomes much more similar to the Officer Selection Boards you are familiar with. But still relies on open Boat Spaces (someone dying, not contracting, or retiring) for there to be an open slot for the board to promote into. Also, we don't do the Specialist thing, so all our Support and Wing NCO's have to make it thru our NCO Schools and lead as there is no Specialist track for them to promote thru.
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Sgt Jude Eschete
Sgt Jude Eschete
1 mo
According to MCO P1400.32D W CH 1-2, minimum regular promotion requirements.
Pvt -> PFC: 6 months TIG/6 months TIS
PFC -> LCpl: 8 months TIG/9 months TIS
LCpl -> Cpl: 8 months TIG/12 months TIS/Cutting Score Req
Cpl -> Sgt: 12 months TIG/24 months TIS/Cutting Score Req
Sgt -> SSgt: 27 months TIG/4 Years TIS/Board Selection
SSgt -> GySgt: 3 Years TIG/6 Years TIS/Board Selection
GySgt -> MSgt/1stSgt: 4 Years TIG/8 Years TIS/Board Selection
MSgt/1stSgt -> MGySgt/SgtMaj -> 3 Years TIG/10 Years TIS/Board Selection
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