Posted on Jan 15, 2014
SFC Ricardo Ruiz
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<h1 style="margin-bottom: 15px; margin-left: 10px; font-size: 32px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); line-height: 1.2; font-family: Georgia, Times, serif; position: relative;">'Lone Survivor' is realistic about this: We owe these heroes a debt</h1>
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Responses: 51
CW2 Joseph Evans
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Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.<br>Never question the decision of the man on the ground.<br>If an innocent colludes with the enemy, they are not innocent.<br><br>This is complicated by the fact that ROE in Iraq and Afghanistan can not be reconciled with the Geneva Convention because the "enemy" does not wear a uniform.<br>There may actually be an argument that the mission itself was not justified under the ROE. For that matter, there is an argument that current operations are illegal, but that brings me back to "Never question the call of the man on the ground." Arm chair Quarterbacks and backseat drivers really got no clue.<br>
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D Jeremy Campbell
D Jeremy Campbell
7 y
Enemy for sure.
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Steve Sledge
Steve Sledge
7 y
Never question the man on the ground." There's nothing like hearing, "Well, I wasn't there but here's what you should've done if it was up to me.....". Fuck your Monday morning SIERRA BRAVO's!
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SGT Ben Keen
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The situation faced by the 4 man team and the actions they took should never be up for debate. &nbsp;Their understanding of the situational awareness and their personal character helped in their decision to release the civilians. &nbsp;Sure, they knew what the result of that decision would be but at the same time they knew what the results would be if they removed the threat. &nbsp;It was truly one of those "between a rock and a hard place" situation.<div><br></div><div>As far as what I would do, I have no idea. &nbsp;I know what I did during my deployments and even now I cannot tell you how I would react if placed back in that same situation I faced. &nbsp;Granted, I was never on a 4 man team, miles away from any support, and outnumbered that bad, but again, the situation and our character drive us to make the calls we make and do the things we do. &nbsp;</div>
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LTC Yinon Weiss
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Edited 10 y ago
<div>Killing an innocent civilian is never going to be the right answer in that situation. What is the right answer will depend on the subtleties of the situation, and every situation is going to be a little different. Best situation is not to get compromised in the first place, and if you have a soft compromised, you should execute the planned response to it, which will also vary depending on the importance of the mission.&nbsp;<br></div><div><br></div><div>If you are certain a civilian is going to compromise your security on purpose by colluding with the enemy, he is no longer an innocent bystander. Problem is that you can't possibly be certain of their intent, unless they actually tell you. Another problem is that if your position is compromised, you most likely will never know what actually compromised it. It's easy to assume it was a goat herder that came around earlier, but unlikely you would ever know if that actually led to anything.</div><div><br></div><div>The "discovered by goat herder" is a commonly studied military scenario and I would assume any recon team would have some plan for a variation of a soft compromise. It happened to 5th GRP and the SAS for example in the first Gulf War.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Full disclosure: I have not seen Lone Survivor, so I am not commenting about their specific circumstances. &nbsp;</div>
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LTC Yinon Weiss
LTC Yinon Weiss
10 y
I think the best question is what one should one PLAN to do in a soft compromise situation (before the mission actually starts). That said, ROEs change, and they are applied differently in different context, so there is no one right answer... though there are definitely wrong answers.
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SPC David Wyckoff
SPC David Wyckoff
10 y
I haven't watched Lone Survivor yet, but I did see Bravo Two Zero and it had the exact same scenario, with the same outcome. Good men trying to do good things in an almost impossible situation.
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SGT Tj West
SGT Tj West
10 y
I've been stewing about this response for a bit now, and I think that although I think that the general premise is correct -- teams should plan, METT-TC, etc. -- the first sentence is definitely not correct.  Let me say that more specifically: The premise that it is never right to kill a civilian is simply wrong.  

If the world were perfect it might be different, but people in general, and soldiers in particular do not operate in a perfect world.  Having served in a unit that spent time hunting along the Af/Pak border I can assure you that if given the choice between killing an innocent civilian on the one hand or walking away on the other, any soldier worth his salt would exfil (or execute whatever other contingency plan existed).  We certainly had our share of compromised patrols and LP/OPs and this was the result 99% of the time.  


However, even the best laid plans sometimes go to hell once on the ground.  Circumstances arise when the choice is not whether to kill an innocent civilian or exfil, but rather whether to kill the civilian or allow for the certainty that someone wearing a US uniform will die.  It's a hard choice for the individual soldier or team to make, and even harder to live with afterward regardless of which option he chooses.  That being said, I cannot recall ever telling my boys that they would be wrong for choosing to save the life of the man on their right or left as opposed to saving the life of the civilian.  I also feel fortunate that neither my chain of command nor the ROE during my time in service tied my hands in this respect.

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