Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 675
For those who chose not serve and stuck around to face the music. I disagree, but respect.
For those that avoided service, but used the rules to do it. I don't like it, but harbor no ill will. "The rules is the rules."
For those that ran, they made a choice and they should live by their choice. I don't like them standing on American soil, breathing American Air, and enjoying American freedom. I forgive, but do not forget. I don't go looking for a pissing contest, but If they bring up the subject, I'm not going to pussyfoot around it. As far as I am concerned, they are not to be trusted.
For those that avoided service, but used the rules to do it. I don't like it, but harbor no ill will. "The rules is the rules."
For those that ran, they made a choice and they should live by their choice. I don't like them standing on American soil, breathing American Air, and enjoying American freedom. I forgive, but do not forget. I don't go looking for a pissing contest, but If they bring up the subject, I'm not going to pussyfoot around it. As far as I am concerned, they are not to be trusted.
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Maj John Bell
1SG Mark Rodgers - I don't hate the man (President Biden). Is it OK if I just hate his stand on critical issues, his policies and his overall governance?
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1SG Mark Rodgers
Walking down the street seems to be something of controversy. I'm one of those ppl that saw more while learning less. I live in Tx and controversy is constant. I lived as a CSM for a yr and hated how the system worked. We vote our conches and that's life!
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1SG Mark Rodgers
Walking into the sun can blind U in more ways than one! Seeing beyond the light takes skill and perception before an objection.
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I agree with you that I want men and women serving that are joining of their own free will. I do not agree with you that a draft is slavery. I volunteered and knew that I would be going to Vietnam. I never gave any thought to draft dodgers. What bothered me were the scum bags that greeted me at LAX when I returned from Vietnam. They tried to block my way, asked me how many babies had I killed, told me to repent for my sins, etc. I was in uniform flying military standby. One of the hardest things that I have ever done, was not confronting these scum bags.
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SSgt James Jones
Sir I respect your opinion. However I can’t agree with you comparing the draft to slaver.Black American have served in every war conflict and police actions this great country has been involved in.However it wasn’t always as free men and women. I wasn’t drafted I volunteered for the USAF and A proud Vietnam vet. I don’t agree with draft dodgers it’s a choice they have courtesy of those who served. I would like to believe that most of the draft dodgers paid their taxes or have other members of their family that have served this great country in some capacity.with that being said no one (0) members of 45 family served this country. They took advantage of the freedom this country gave them to not pay taxes and cheat lie and steal for their benefit only.yes that’s a blanket statement there are some members of his family that are not tax dodgers and don’t want to set the constitution aside if it helps him to continue with the lies hate bigotry and the fleeing of those who believe in him.
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SPC Lyle Montgomery
SSgt James Jones - It wasn't slavery in any way. If you live in this great country then you should be willing to fight for it.
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SSgt James Jones
SPC Lyle Montgomery I think you are agreeing with me. The draft has nothing to do with slavery.
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1SG Mark Rodgers
SSgt James Jones - There is a yes and a No in both statements! Can you walk away when drafted? No. The next question is of same thought.. Just think about the parallel!
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As a Viet Nam era enlistee I chose to enlist. I didn't run off to Canada. I am admittedly more upset with folks like Kerry & McCain that embellished their own record, profited from it and have become national embarrassments. Lack of information is the biggest enemy. If the reasons were legitimate I have no problems with deferments.
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1SG Mark Rodgers
There were NOT 5 medical deferments for Biden. That was 5 education deferments because he was holding a great GPA. 4 for undergrad and 1 for law school.
In 1968 the was given a 1-Y profile, which meant he wouldn't be selected to serve unless it was a world war.
In 1968 the was given a 1-Y profile, which meant he wouldn't be selected to serve unless it was a world war.
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CSM Thomas Ray
Lifeguard/Football player Joe Biden got five draft deferments for asthma during VietNam Biden received five draft deferments is TRUE. He was granted five deferments as a student before he received a medical exemption for asthma. Similarly, Trump was granted four deferments as a student before his exemption for bone spurs.m,"
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