ROTC
ROTC
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Should Officers have to complete a certain number of years enlisted before being commissioned?
A few of my soldiers and NCO's stated that they can tell the difference between Officers who were prior enlisted and those who weren't. They think a certain amount of years enlisted should be mandatory before becoming an Officer. I have my opinion but just wanted to hear yours. Would it provide the military with a better caliber Officer?
A few of my soldiers and NCO's stated that they can tell the difference between Officers who were prior enlisted and those who weren't. They think a certain amount of years enlisted should be mandatory before becoming an Officer. I have my opinion but just wanted to hear yours. Would it provide the military with a better caliber Officer?
Posted in these groups: 
Officers
OCS
United States Military Academy (USMA West Point)
ROTC
Enlisted-to-Officer
Officers OCS United States Military Academy (USMA West Point) ROTC Enlisted-to-Officer
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 30
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Don't like the mandatory part. I have seen everything from Privates to Sergeants Major receive commissions and how they adapted depended very much on the individual.
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CPT (Join to see)
Roger Sir, I don't agree with the mandatory part either, however, I do believe in a stronger screening process which the Army will start doing for Battalion/Squadron Commanders next year. This should be done more thoroughly for all the ranks.
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1LT Rich Voss
Sir, great and brief comment. I've seen similar results. I used to say that everyone able (you know what I mean) should serve our country for a couple years, just to see what it's like to do a non-selfish duty "for the greater good". I've backed off that somewhat. BTW, I was drafted during Nam and was an EM before going to & graduating from Armor OCS. Forever grateful for that opportunity.
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LTC Philip Marlowe
I agree John. I think it mostly depends on the individual. I am a fmr enlisted who transferred to the USAR while in college and received my Commission via ROTC after which I went back on active duty. During my active time, I met and worked with both great and terrible "Mustang", ROTC and USMA graduate officers. It almost always boiled down to the individual. I had a Platoon Leader who came into my office one day and asked me to provide him a critique of him. I aske if he really wanted me to and of course, he answered yes. I told him he reminded me of a SPC 4 (E4) in Lieutenants Bars. He was aghast and asked me why. I told him he had not successfully transitioned from his E4 day to his current status. I told him that his enlisted troops knew that anytime they brought him their 'monkey' - had accepted it willingly - no matter the cause and proceeded to throw himself on the SWORD they gave him and then stepped back and laughted. I told him I admired his defense of his troops, BUT he needed to learn which battles to fight... and that he'd discover that 99% of the 'issue monkeys' people brought to him expecting him to take them on his back were trivial. I counceled him on how to work with his troops so the end result was THEY took charge of resolving their own issue monkey. He retired a LTC after a great career. Now, I'm not taking all the credit, but in the end...I think as his commander, I gave him some good 2LT mentoring.
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Why? Should enlisted have to serve a couple years as an officer to understand their role. Thank you for your service.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
Sir, my response was the Have To, I worked with a few General Officers and more Junior whom I thought to be outstanding leaders Officers, they too stated that they believe they benefitted from the experience. I always supported enlisted to Officer, I personally chose to remain enlisted even with a Masters Degree. All of life’s experiences contribute to who we are and how we perform. Thank you for your post and service. CPT (Join to see)
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CPT (Join to see)
CSM Darieus ZaGara Roger Sergeant Major, you are one of the guys I hope to work for one day. I know alot of enlisted who steer away from education, you're leading by example. I hope to be pursuing my Masters this upcoming spring.
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A better question may be to ask why we have officers in the first place (no, that's not the same thing as suggesting we should not have them). My thoughts are that we need officers to fulfill a critical role in the hierarchy between national command authority, and execution of orders. I was never an NCO, but it always appeared to me that at the division/department (Navy), platoon/company (Army/Marine Corps) level...NCOs were primarily concerned with maintaining the capabilities of their people, protecting them when appropriate, and correcting them where necessary. Officers at those same levels are more or less conduits for instructions and details coming from the commander; responsible for broader goals to the same. Once you get to the higher levels of leadership, I believe things begin to level out, and the Captain/Master Chief (Navy), Colonel /Sergeant Major (Army/Marine Corps) form a unified structure encapsulating the experience and responsibilities of both communities. Should all officers have that few years of experience as enlisted to do their jobs better? It's probably too subjective to ever come down with such a policy. Can it be helpful? Certainly-some of the best officers I served with or under were priors. However, so were some of the worst...including THE worst JO I've ever seen. Looking back, I wish I had three to five years of enlisted time backing me up...my four years at USNA were not, nor could they ever be equivocated as the same. That being said, I came into service with a profound respect for my NCOs, and a genuine desire to "do right" by the junior enlisted in my division. That wasn't always easy because what I thought was "right by them" wasn't always in keeping with my tasking from higher, or what Chief wanted. It was a constant process of compromise and balance...and all in all, I think I could've done better, but certainly could've done much worse.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
Well-I can't say that's at all what I was trying to convey, so I'll try and flesh it out a little better. No-I don't think we're "stepping on their toes" or "blurring the lines of authority"...not if we're doing our jobs correctly, and in the right context. NCOs run the Military at the execution level for a reason-they have the experience and expertise we normally don't have. However, we're segregated and placed in command for an equally good reason-we're responsible for the broader compliance with Commander's intent. The moment, short of a combat necessity, "we" are trying to do "their" job...or vice versa, something critical has broken down in the system. When a JO comes in with a significant amount of prior enlisted experience, they have to adapt to the new role, learning to use their experience within the context of being a new officer. The same is true in reverse for more experienced officers...who cannot forget that while they may be in command, they'll still never know a platoon or company as well as their respective NCOs. Maybe what has changed (if anything has changed at all) is that officers feel more pressure to show more esoteric results, while NCOs are being given fewer of the traditional "tools" to ensure those results are borne out. At some point, officers just have to trust their NCOs and resist the temptation to micromanage. I think when we do that, while remaining engaged in our "lane"...most NCOs are going to find a way to get the results we require.
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LCDR Mike Morrissey
Admiral Jeremy Michael Boorda was the Chief Of Naval Operations. He was a true mustang, having risen from the deckplates to the most powerful position in the Navy. However, he was silently reviled by those who had come up through “real” commissioning programs.
When he was the Chief of Naval Personnel, I was appointed to head an enlisted retention board. He direction to us was one which was one of the most thoughtful charges there could be. He knew excellent professionals and leaders would be sent home and made us well aware of the care we had to take.
As CNO, he was exceptionally conscientious. In a way to his detriment. A reporter went searching through his record and raised a question about a “V” on a lesser medal from years ago. It must have caught him at a vulnerable time...that very day he went home and shot himself.
I really loved that man. I also knew several senior officers who were relieved...a disgraceful example of those who could not accept him. Not unlike Zumwalt who brought the Navy around to appreciating sailors..though he was fought tooth and nail. Elmo had sailed with the riverine forces and broke through that flag wall.
When he was the Chief of Naval Personnel, I was appointed to head an enlisted retention board. He direction to us was one which was one of the most thoughtful charges there could be. He knew excellent professionals and leaders would be sent home and made us well aware of the care we had to take.
As CNO, he was exceptionally conscientious. In a way to his detriment. A reporter went searching through his record and raised a question about a “V” on a lesser medal from years ago. It must have caught him at a vulnerable time...that very day he went home and shot himself.
I really loved that man. I also knew several senior officers who were relieved...a disgraceful example of those who could not accept him. Not unlike Zumwalt who brought the Navy around to appreciating sailors..though he was fought tooth and nail. Elmo had sailed with the riverine forces and broke through that flag wall.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
LCDR Mike Morrissey - I remember Admiral Boorda's death well...it was a tragic event that had an impact on all of us that began our path to a commission that same summer.
There may have been serious prejudice against his rise (and perhaps that of others) back then-In a grim way, it's believable. However, during my time, I'd suggest that things really have come full-circle; as prior-enlisted officers are (from all appearances) more common, the education levels of many enlisted personnel exceed those of commissioned personnel, and a twenty-year, asymmetrical war has altered our doctrines and operations.
My prediction is that eventually, we'll see more prior-enlisted officers holding senior positions. Personally, I think it's a great thing.
There may have been serious prejudice against his rise (and perhaps that of others) back then-In a grim way, it's believable. However, during my time, I'd suggest that things really have come full-circle; as prior-enlisted officers are (from all appearances) more common, the education levels of many enlisted personnel exceed those of commissioned personnel, and a twenty-year, asymmetrical war has altered our doctrines and operations.
My prediction is that eventually, we'll see more prior-enlisted officers holding senior positions. Personally, I think it's a great thing.
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