Defense and Space
Defense and Space
Posted on Jun 18, 2018
Trump orders creation of independent space force - but Congress will still have its say
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Congressional Reaction: Trump’s announcement also left it unclear whether this new space force will rest under the Department of the Air Force—much like the Marine Corps is a component of the Department of the Navy—or whether a new “Department of the Space Force” will also be created.
Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Ala., the head of the House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee, tweeted out his support for Trump’s order. Rogers had previously proposed a separate space service as part of Congress’ annual defense policy bill.
However, lawmakers and experts also immediately registered their opposition to the announcement.
Sen. Bill Nelson, (D-Fla.), the top Democrat on the Senate Commerce Committee that oversees nonmilitary space programs, tweeted that now was not the right time to establish a separate space force.
Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Ala., the head of the House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee, tweeted out his support for Trump’s order. Rogers had previously proposed a separate space service as part of Congress’ annual defense policy bill.
However, lawmakers and experts also immediately registered their opposition to the announcement.
Sen. Bill Nelson, (D-Fla.), the top Democrat on the Senate Commerce Committee that oversees nonmilitary space programs, tweeted that now was not the right time to establish a separate space force.
Trump orders creation of independent space force - but Congress will still have its say
Posted from defensenews.com
Congress
Defense and Space
Donald Trump
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 21
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MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy So when is the proper time! We need to be a leader in this new aspect of the military! Great share!
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SSG Warren Swan
From what I've read in these responses, most of are mentioning the same argument that was used on Obama and now on Trump where the President cannot legislate, let alone legislate through the use of EO's. That is the job of congress. The SAME congress that bipartisan voted for sequestration. This in our current OPTEMPO is not the right time to stand up a sixth branch that will effectively gut one of the first three. Cyber, Air Dominance, an Space are all Air Force core missions. So to make a bad dream come true, we EO a "sixth" branch at the cost of one that already has the mission?
If the idea was "draining the swamp" making a sixth branch only will thicken it. You cannot have a branch with no civilians as the continuity to keep things going. So the swamp thing goes nowhere faster.
What about NASA? If there is a space command, who I'm sure will be the ones tracking objects in space, along with defending and maintaining space, what's the point in NASA? Do away with NASA just to roll them into this new branch?
I'd like to see this new branch's mission statement and core values. I believe once the jokes go away, we'll all see this was a fools errand that didn't attract anyone but made a conscious effort in gutting talent from the other branches to be in one that more than likely will not be needed anytime in the next century. When the AF has no pilots, maintainers, the Army has no recruiters or instructors, the Navy is looking to expand the fleet to pre-911 levels, and the crayon eaters are just eating in the hangar of a ship bored out of their minds, someone will have to pipe up this is a bad idea and only stole more pilots, maintainers, radar operators, and in the end troops from another service who needs them more now than ever. This idea will look sexy at first, but will hurt mission readiness for the sake of being "first"....I don't think we want to be that type of "first" where this is going.
If the idea was "draining the swamp" making a sixth branch only will thicken it. You cannot have a branch with no civilians as the continuity to keep things going. So the swamp thing goes nowhere faster.
What about NASA? If there is a space command, who I'm sure will be the ones tracking objects in space, along with defending and maintaining space, what's the point in NASA? Do away with NASA just to roll them into this new branch?
I'd like to see this new branch's mission statement and core values. I believe once the jokes go away, we'll all see this was a fools errand that didn't attract anyone but made a conscious effort in gutting talent from the other branches to be in one that more than likely will not be needed anytime in the next century. When the AF has no pilots, maintainers, the Army has no recruiters or instructors, the Navy is looking to expand the fleet to pre-911 levels, and the crayon eaters are just eating in the hangar of a ship bored out of their minds, someone will have to pipe up this is a bad idea and only stole more pilots, maintainers, radar operators, and in the end troops from another service who needs them more now than ever. This idea will look sexy at first, but will hurt mission readiness for the sake of being "first"....I don't think we want to be that type of "first" where this is going.
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MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy
LTC Greg Henning, I'm in no position to answer authoritatively, Sir; however, from all the information I've collected, collated and curated here on RP, it appears to be a Work in process (WIP). Defensor Fortis!
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Sgt Kelli Mays
Capt Gregory Prickett - yet, congress at this time will not do anything for Trump...which is UNFORTUNATE...even if it's a good thing staring at them in the face, they would rather cut off their noses despite their face. Like Obama did with OBARFMA CARE.....he shoved it down our throats...first with cutting down the number of votes needed to vote for it and then there was the waving of his magic pen after he spent the previous years stating he would never do it, he did it anyway because it was time to run again for office...I'm talking about his DACA unconstitutional BS.... https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/daca-unconstitutional-obama-admitted
DACA Is Unconstitutional, as Obama Admitted
President Donald Trump has caught a lot of heat for rescinding the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program with a six-month wind-down. Few people seem aware that he's ending an administrative amnesty for illegal aliens that President Barack Obama lacked the constitutional and legal authority to implement.How do we know? Because even Obama admitted it – repeatedly.
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Well my friend MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy the concept of a separate space force has been bandied about for over a decade. The USAF and the US Army primarily have their hands in space from weapons, through man-launched satellites, though counter missile technology, etc.
Since the POTUS has the federal agencies within the Executive Branch it makes sense for the President to announce a separate military service for the Space Force.
Based on my extensive understanding of the formation of the JCS and USAF after WWII it makes great sense to separate the Space Force from the other Military Services and combine offensive and defensive space capabilities in one service.
The US Constitution authorizes Congress to create Armies and Navies which made sense in the 18th century.
Creation of the USAF from the Army Air Corps while leaving the US Navy and Marines Air forces separate indicates that establishing of an air force was not an issue with clear constitutional viewpoints that could trump contrary views.
Congress particularly the U.S. House of Represnetives has authority based on the Constitution to initiate authorization and appropriation bills for the Federal agencies including the DoD and Military Services.
I would expect Air Force Space Command (AFSPC) would be the HQ structure used to create the Space Force with one 4 star billet and a couple 3 star billets moved from USAF to Space Force.
I would expect Army and Navy strategic assets and capabilities would be moved to Space Force as well.
The initial budget for Space Force would require some unique funds but Congress would also be able to realign the budgets of Army, Navy and Air Force as assets and force structure [Army term] were transferred to Space Force military service.
Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution provides Congress authority to raise and support Armies and to provide and maintain a Navy.
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; "
https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html
What do you think? SGT John MeredithMSgt John McGowanMSgt David M.LTC Jeff ShearerSGT Philip RoncariCPT Jim GallagherLt Col Jim CoeCWO3 Dennis M.SGT (Join to see)PO3 Bob McCordSgt Albert Castro1SG John MillanSSgt Boyd Herrst TSgt Rodney BidingerSGT Jim ArnoldSFC Randy PurhamCDR (Join to see) MSG Brian Ross PO3 Phyllis Maynard
Since the POTUS has the federal agencies within the Executive Branch it makes sense for the President to announce a separate military service for the Space Force.
Based on my extensive understanding of the formation of the JCS and USAF after WWII it makes great sense to separate the Space Force from the other Military Services and combine offensive and defensive space capabilities in one service.
The US Constitution authorizes Congress to create Armies and Navies which made sense in the 18th century.
Creation of the USAF from the Army Air Corps while leaving the US Navy and Marines Air forces separate indicates that establishing of an air force was not an issue with clear constitutional viewpoints that could trump contrary views.
Congress particularly the U.S. House of Represnetives has authority based on the Constitution to initiate authorization and appropriation bills for the Federal agencies including the DoD and Military Services.
I would expect Air Force Space Command (AFSPC) would be the HQ structure used to create the Space Force with one 4 star billet and a couple 3 star billets moved from USAF to Space Force.
I would expect Army and Navy strategic assets and capabilities would be moved to Space Force as well.
The initial budget for Space Force would require some unique funds but Congress would also be able to realign the budgets of Army, Navy and Air Force as assets and force structure [Army term] were transferred to Space Force military service.
Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution provides Congress authority to raise and support Armies and to provide and maintain a Navy.
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; "
https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html
What do you think? SGT John MeredithMSgt John McGowanMSgt David M.LTC Jeff ShearerSGT Philip RoncariCPT Jim GallagherLt Col Jim CoeCWO3 Dennis M.SGT (Join to see)PO3 Bob McCordSgt Albert Castro1SG John MillanSSgt Boyd Herrst TSgt Rodney BidingerSGT Jim ArnoldSFC Randy PurhamCDR (Join to see) MSG Brian Ross PO3 Phyllis Maynard
U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
Article 1 Section 8 of the United States Constitution
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MAJ James Woods
Yes before there was a DoD, it was called the War Department and Navy Department. You know what created the DoD by merging the two departments? The National Security Act of 1947 that I previously mentioned.
I'm enjoying your chicken-egg argument. If the POTUS establishes a Service Branch but Congress doesn't authorize it nor appropriate funds, does that Service Branch still exist? On paper, Trump can create whatever he wants, he still needs Congress to make it official with an actual bill recognizing it. So I will say it again, Trump cannot establish any military branch he wants without the authorization of Congress.
I'm enjoying your chicken-egg argument. If the POTUS establishes a Service Branch but Congress doesn't authorize it nor appropriate funds, does that Service Branch still exist? On paper, Trump can create whatever he wants, he still needs Congress to make it official with an actual bill recognizing it. So I will say it again, Trump cannot establish any military branch he wants without the authorization of Congress.
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LTC Stephen F.
I spent a lot of time [about 18 years] in the Pentagon in various capacities and have a couple friends on the Hill. The communication between Executive Branch and Legislative Branch is continual at many levels.
Before any POTUS makes a public statement about creation of anything that requires congressional action, legislative, judicial and affected agencies all provide input from their perspectives.
I expect you have some experience working at OSD or on the HQDA staff MAJ James Woods so you are probably aware of the machinations.
Before any POTUS makes a public statement about creation of anything that requires congressional action, legislative, judicial and affected agencies all provide input from their perspectives.
I expect you have some experience working at OSD or on the HQDA staff MAJ James Woods so you are probably aware of the machinations.
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MAJ James Woods
And during those 18 years you had a typical relationship between Executive and Legislative personnel expected of knowledgeable professionals in their career fields. You cannot say that relationship exists in this administration unless your suggesting the WH staff and Congressional staffers and their bosses are in cahoots with the mix messaging platforms of Trump. Are all those claims by GOP and staffers of being taken by surprised by something Trump or his spokesperson says after a meeting to be considered deliberate behavior?
Be honest, this POTUS will intentionally make a public statement of action without conferring with his staff with the intent of forcing some kind of action by his staff or Congress or agencies to react in support whether they agree or disagree with it. I.E. Reinstating the Transgender Ban in the military.
Yeah I have some experience and we are not observing traditional systems of policy making that we are used to seeing in government.
Be honest, this POTUS will intentionally make a public statement of action without conferring with his staff with the intent of forcing some kind of action by his staff or Congress or agencies to react in support whether they agree or disagree with it. I.E. Reinstating the Transgender Ban in the military.
Yeah I have some experience and we are not observing traditional systems of policy making that we are used to seeing in government.
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Sgt Kelli Mays
LTC Stephen F. I believe it's a fantastic and very NECESSARY idea. Space is the only place left for HUMANS to explore...although we do not know much about our own oceans....I believe it's imperative for HUMANS to learn more about space...and at the rate we in the US are going...we are on a very slow road compared to Russia and China...and I believe it's in the best interest of the US to be the first at everything and we need to catch up and get in front of this before it's too late. In order to accomplish this, I believe we need a separate branch from the Air Force or Army...we need a Space Branch that will only focus on Space/space technology etc....
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Does this mean that Ripley finally gets to kill Aliens from LV-426 with the Space Crayon eaters? Will Sarge allow them to keep their pulse rifles in the nuke facility? Will there be Co-ed showers? Would Tom Cruise still wind up fighting Aliens in France with a woman who can do push ups literally till the cows come home with rounds exploding all around her? Will David infect Earth finally? What about Capt Kirk? Will he and the Enterprise be able to stop him? So many questions about the Space Force with their Space Crayon eaters maritime infantry. Will Khan be there too? Will we find peace with whales again? I nominate Deadpool as Space Force CoS!!!! He's as smart as a good SPC (you won't find him until it's too late). and he likes crayons just like Marines!
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MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy
SSG Warren Swan, Weyland-Yutani Corp. is way over my head but sparks my interest. Thanks for sharing, Sir. You've inspired me to do some late night reading. Feel free to offer literary suggestions. In the meantime I'll be checking out the following primer: http://alienanthology.wikia.com/wiki/Weyland-Yutani
Weyland-Yutani is a large conglomerate corporation known as "The Company." It is one of the corporations that runs the human colonies outside the solar system through the Extrasolar Colonization Administration, has a seat in the Interstellar Commerce Commission's Company Review Board, and also has a large presence on Earth. They hold their main offices in Tokyo, San Francisco, The Sea of Tranquility, and Thedeus. Weyland-Yutani consistently...
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