Airborne School
Airborne School
Posted on Jul 28, 2017
What is the punishment for a SM being a jump refusal?
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I know refusing to jump is punishable under UCMJ ART 92. I am wondering what qualifies a SM to being a jump refusal?
Airborne School
United States Army Airborne School
SGM
SGT
SSG
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 107
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NOBODY ever refused or froze in my door. If you made it to the door you were going out one way or another.
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SPC Troy Shelby
I remember Jump school well on my 1st actual jump, when we got to the door we had to say our name rank and social well I got through name and rank and the jump Master put his boot in my back and kicked me out the door, I wasn't hesitating cause I was syked about my first jump, just apparently I wasn't giving the info fast enough XD
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SSG James Dolen
SPC Troy Shelby - It probably wasn't you, the jump master saw he was running out of drop zone.
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CDR William Kempner
Was AJM on a jump with 2/75 (RGR) back in 1979 -Rogers DZ. Not a refusal-that's a whole other ball game-but one soldier was doing the "hesitation stutter step" thing as he approached the door. JM and I just gave him "an assist". I can still recall him hollering going out over the wind!! JM and I just looked at each other and smiled and shook our heads. Everyone landed safely. The guy probably smiles about it now.
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SGM Robert Murray
MSgt Ronnie Kelly - I leaned in your direction of what to do because this was, what I believe to be, a training jump where the young lady had yet to receive her wings. I'm kinda believing what CPT (Join to see) said would apply in that training situation as well MINUS the UCMJ because it's "training" and no one has earned their wings. Having earned the wings? OK, "consideration" for punitive action, yes. As always, depends on the specific circumstances.
I'm still curious <and still reading> where someone actually refused and landed still onboard.
I'm still curious <and still reading> where someone actually refused and landed still onboard.
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When at the door the jump master will give you the command to "go." On the third command he will pull you at from the door. The assistant jump master will then have you sit on your hands on the aircraft. Upon landing a rigger will inspect your equipment. If no faults are going you could receive UCMJ and termination of any orders to an airborne unit.
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MAJ Dallas D.
This happened in my unit back in the 90's and it was treated exactly as CPT Rosa explained above. The following week the Battalion Commander called a Battalion Formation and called the individual out front, he and the CSM ripped his wings off his uniform and made him march by the entire Battalion. He was then transferred to a leg unit. I was a young SGT back then and it really left a mark, the morale of the entire Battalion went through the roof after this incident.
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SGT John Graham
SGT Dan Gray - Something wrong with fixing cars? My father was a WW-II Glider Pilot. His aircraft was also pinstriped. He went from a "Flying Sgt." to being commissioned first as a Flight Officer then as a O-1, and O-2. He left the service after the war and became a Licensed Master Mechanic. His first son went on to become a O-3 Company Commander in the 82nd ABN. Myself, I went ASA and stayed enlisted. Cowardice and a Superior attitude of the Captain is disgraceful. Being a mechanic isn't anything to be ashamed of; my son makes more as a mechanic than most college grads.
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SGM Robert Murray
SSG Aaron Marshall - CPT (Join to see)
I'm still looking at it as a process <people kinda don't understand that>. Orders/processes <spoken or unspoken> are to be carried out without reservation.
You suit up, you gear up, you board that airplane. . .all within a process. Any deviation to that process is grounds for punitive consequences especially if you've already earned your wings. Again, if you're a trainee, ok. . .you've failed. Failure is punitive especially since on your class attendence report, it shows you've failed. <Been so long, I've forgotten the form>
I'm still looking at it as a process <people kinda don't understand that>. Orders/processes <spoken or unspoken> are to be carried out without reservation.
You suit up, you gear up, you board that airplane. . .all within a process. Any deviation to that process is grounds for punitive consequences especially if you've already earned your wings. Again, if you're a trainee, ok. . .you've failed. Failure is punitive especially since on your class attendence report, it shows you've failed. <Been so long, I've forgotten the form>
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Here is what happens to the Airborne Badge
AR 600-8-22, Ch. 1-31c
(2) Parachutist Badge. Any Parachutist badge may be revoked when the awardee—
(a) Is punished under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) for refusal to participate in a parachute jump.
(b) Initiates action which results in termination of airborne status or withdrawal of any Career Management Field (CMF) 18 military occupational specialty (MOS), 180A or specialty skill identifier (SSI) 18A before he or she completes 36 cumulative months of airborne duty. Any parachutist badge with bronze star for a combat jump will be retained regardless of time on airborne status. Any parachutist badge will be retained if the Soldier is unable to complete 36 cumulative months of airborne duty through no fault of his or her own, for example, injury or reassignment under favorable conditions.
AR 600-8-22, Ch. 1-31c
(2) Parachutist Badge. Any Parachutist badge may be revoked when the awardee—
(a) Is punished under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) for refusal to participate in a parachute jump.
(b) Initiates action which results in termination of airborne status or withdrawal of any Career Management Field (CMF) 18 military occupational specialty (MOS), 180A or specialty skill identifier (SSI) 18A before he or she completes 36 cumulative months of airborne duty. Any parachutist badge with bronze star for a combat jump will be retained regardless of time on airborne status. Any parachutist badge will be retained if the Soldier is unable to complete 36 cumulative months of airborne duty through no fault of his or her own, for example, injury or reassignment under favorable conditions.
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CW3 Terry Gile
LTC (Join to see) - HooAah! They say that generally there's less wind after sunset, so most of our jumps were "night" jumps (not counting those daytime jumps that some of our fellow "Sky Soldiers" turned into simulated "night" jumps in response to the insane act that we were committing).
I don't recall the exact wording, but remember the saying that went something like "I don't care how many skydives you've got under your belt. Until you exit a high performance aircraft at 800 feet with an M1950 weapon case and an ALICE loaded with 80+ pounds of equipment strapped to your legs into the pitch dark of a cold, cloudy, moonless night with just the dim lights of Fayetteville glowing in the distance to tell you that Mother Earth is down there somewhere, you are still just a LEG to me!"
(Keep your feet and knees together, Brother.)
I don't recall the exact wording, but remember the saying that went something like "I don't care how many skydives you've got under your belt. Until you exit a high performance aircraft at 800 feet with an M1950 weapon case and an ALICE loaded with 80+ pounds of equipment strapped to your legs into the pitch dark of a cold, cloudy, moonless night with just the dim lights of Fayetteville glowing in the distance to tell you that Mother Earth is down there somewhere, you are still just a LEG to me!"
(Keep your feet and knees together, Brother.)
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SSG Brian Wilber
LTC (Join to see) - My son is a paratrooper. He is also afraid of heights. He told me that's why he never hesitates in the door. It will just be that much longer before you're on the ground.
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LTC (Join to see)
Absolutely. Why training is so critical. At that point it is muscle memory and you just do what you were taught. You can't beat the view though! AATW!
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