Career Counselor
Career Counselor
Posted on Mar 25, 2021
What punishment should I recommend for Soldier who showed up for an ASU inspection with it on a hanger?
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Backstory. This Soldier has know about the ASU inspection for well over a mont and had gained a substantial amount of weight this past year. She knew a month ago that she didn’t fit in her uniform. But instead of coming forward and saying anything she decided to show up the day of the inspection with it on a hanger saying she has it but it doesn’t fit. Is a punishment warranted for this action? If not what steps or counseling should I give her forcing her to buy a new uniform. Looking for guidance?
Punishment
Corrective Training
Leadership
Career Counselor
Career Advice
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 90
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You can't "punish" anyone. You can do corrective training though.
Counseling. Come up with a plan of action to correct the deficiencies. I would do a courtesy height/weight to see if she's out of regs and giving her a certain date to be within regulation or she will be flagged and enrolled in ABCP.
Counsel her that she needs to get her uniform fitted and you will have another inspection in xx days. If she fails that, you do the follow up portion on the bottom of the 4856 that she failed and counsel her again. If this becomes a repeated issue, you take it to the commander and the commander is the one who can put forth UCMJ.
Sit down and talk to the soldier and find out what's going on. Sometimes people gaining weight suddenly there are underlying issues.
Counseling. Come up with a plan of action to correct the deficiencies. I would do a courtesy height/weight to see if she's out of regs and giving her a certain date to be within regulation or she will be flagged and enrolled in ABCP.
Counsel her that she needs to get her uniform fitted and you will have another inspection in xx days. If she fails that, you do the follow up portion on the bottom of the 4856 that she failed and counsel her again. If this becomes a repeated issue, you take it to the commander and the commander is the one who can put forth UCMJ.
Sit down and talk to the soldier and find out what's going on. Sometimes people gaining weight suddenly there are underlying issues.
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SPC Martin Meyer
We had an IG inspection and I was short a uniform so I borrowed a pair of pants from one of my brother paratroopers. I wore a 32 at the time he wore 31 and I an 5'10" and he is about 5'8" so to say the least the pants were not perfect. The CSM that was part of the inspection mentioned looks like I was eating well as pants were a bit snug. You could always squeeze into a uniform and if it is that much out of size has to be an underlying reason for it.
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CPL (Join to see)
SPC Chris Ison - You were national guard. Reserves and guards don't get a yearly clothing allowance (unless maybe they are AGR). A month is not always "plenty of notice". Especially with this Covid bullshit. If I were to take my ASU's in right now to be altered I would not have them back until mid October. If I had a "leader" like you I would have told you to go fuck yourself. A leader leads not dictate. A good leader not only leads but also mentors and helps. Since you don't have "good leadership" skills (and marginal "leadership" skills at best from the sound of it) the guard and the army as a whole is better off with you having been in but not BEING in. You clearly lack respect for those who serve and have served by calling them "fucking pieces of shit" because they disagree with you. But if that is what helps you sleep at night then I hope you sleep well.
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SPC Chris Ison
CPL (Join to see) -
Okay so first I have 4 years active duty in the Navy, 2 years active duty in the Army, and 1.5 years Active in the guard for operation OIF II.
But you are correct as a NG soldier I am not financially responsible for my uniform, if i needed one that fit, I could Direct Exchange my old ones, and if they did not come back in time, that is an excuse to miss an inspection. However, *I*, personally, did not do this. I went out of pocket and spent close to 350.00 dollars for new set of greens in 1996, after putting on over 40 pounds. For our dress green inspection in Decembers drill of that year. Asthat is what a responsible soldier does.
I quote:
" This Soldier has know about the ASU inspection for well over a mont and had gained a substantial amount of weight this past year. "
This girl got fat, and she got fat sitting on her ass doing nothing and missing PT formations and shit. Then when the pedal hits the metal, she walks in with a uniform that does not fit, on a hanger, because shew as too CHEAP to buy a new uniform.
I can guarantee you, just like every other worthless and ignorant fucking soldier on active duty, this girl drives a car that is out of her financial means, and she has fake eyelashes, fake nails, etc so she can go dick trolling at the clubs.
She knew three months ago that uniform did not fit, it did not matter that she had an inspection, she knew that uniform did not fit and should have either started losing weight, or wait for it... bought a new uniform.
If she is pregnant, then she should have purchased a maternity uniform, that is why they are made.
If I were to take my ASU's in right now to be altered I would not have them back until mid October.
Take them off post, or alter them yourself. Had she purchased a uniform three months ago, she would have gotten it back in time. I had dry cleaning done, including alterations in December of last year. Not a single problem.
If I had a "leader" like you I would have told you to go fuck yourself. A leader leads not dictate.
If you had told me to go fuck myself you would be sitting in front of the BN CO, and you would be a fucking private. See this is why YOU don't know how to lead:
and had gained a substantial amount of weight this past year.
This problem did not happen a month before inspection it happened 6 months before inspection, probably when that fat ass failed a PT test.
You clearly lack respect for those who serve and have served by calling them "fucking pieces of shit" because they disagree with you. But if that is what helps you sleep at night then I hope you sleep well.
Yes I have called of all you wimps pieces of shit. None of you understand how to lead and discipline combat troops. I doubt you are even a corporal as a motor t. But shit like this doesn't happen in an infantry unit, we take the job seriously.
You fucking REMFS don't know shit. I have served in 3 combat zones jack ass, you can kiss my ass.
Okay so first I have 4 years active duty in the Navy, 2 years active duty in the Army, and 1.5 years Active in the guard for operation OIF II.
But you are correct as a NG soldier I am not financially responsible for my uniform, if i needed one that fit, I could Direct Exchange my old ones, and if they did not come back in time, that is an excuse to miss an inspection. However, *I*, personally, did not do this. I went out of pocket and spent close to 350.00 dollars for new set of greens in 1996, after putting on over 40 pounds. For our dress green inspection in Decembers drill of that year. Asthat is what a responsible soldier does.
I quote:
" This Soldier has know about the ASU inspection for well over a mont and had gained a substantial amount of weight this past year. "
This girl got fat, and she got fat sitting on her ass doing nothing and missing PT formations and shit. Then when the pedal hits the metal, she walks in with a uniform that does not fit, on a hanger, because shew as too CHEAP to buy a new uniform.
I can guarantee you, just like every other worthless and ignorant fucking soldier on active duty, this girl drives a car that is out of her financial means, and she has fake eyelashes, fake nails, etc so she can go dick trolling at the clubs.
She knew three months ago that uniform did not fit, it did not matter that she had an inspection, she knew that uniform did not fit and should have either started losing weight, or wait for it... bought a new uniform.
If she is pregnant, then she should have purchased a maternity uniform, that is why they are made.
If I were to take my ASU's in right now to be altered I would not have them back until mid October.
Take them off post, or alter them yourself. Had she purchased a uniform three months ago, she would have gotten it back in time. I had dry cleaning done, including alterations in December of last year. Not a single problem.
If I had a "leader" like you I would have told you to go fuck yourself. A leader leads not dictate.
If you had told me to go fuck myself you would be sitting in front of the BN CO, and you would be a fucking private. See this is why YOU don't know how to lead:
and had gained a substantial amount of weight this past year.
This problem did not happen a month before inspection it happened 6 months before inspection, probably when that fat ass failed a PT test.
You clearly lack respect for those who serve and have served by calling them "fucking pieces of shit" because they disagree with you. But if that is what helps you sleep at night then I hope you sleep well.
Yes I have called of all you wimps pieces of shit. None of you understand how to lead and discipline combat troops. I doubt you are even a corporal as a motor t. But shit like this doesn't happen in an infantry unit, we take the job seriously.
You fucking REMFS don't know shit. I have served in 3 combat zones jack ass, you can kiss my ass.
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Burpees till they've worked off the "COVID 20" and can fit back into that uniform lol
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG John Millan - We DO have to counsel first because your Art 15 packet isn't getting far with JAG if there's nothing to back it up on paper. So you need to just stop with the "ArTiClE 15!!" That's not how it works. You have issues John. Big issues.
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG John Millan - FFS you are ridiculous. Going AWOL is not the same thing as bringing in ASU jacket on a hanger. Get real. You know that's not the same thing.
I don't care what they said when YOU were in. I saw it while I was on Rear D at Ft Riley in 2012-2013 - JAG kicked back packets because there weren't counselings in them AND people didn't do the follow up portion of the counseling. I was there when 1SG bitched about JAG kicking them back.
You can kindly go f* yourself with the calling me a "clueless disgrace."
I don't care what they said when YOU were in. I saw it while I was on Rear D at Ft Riley in 2012-2013 - JAG kicked back packets because there weren't counselings in them AND people didn't do the follow up portion of the counseling. I was there when 1SG bitched about JAG kicking them back.
You can kindly go f* yourself with the calling me a "clueless disgrace."
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SSG Rick Miller
Anybody stop to think she might be pregnant? Some other medical reason? Get her checked out by competent medical authority, and if none of the above, do a weigh in and a tape. If she's not overweight, then she has 5 days to get a uniform that fits properly, and on the 6th day, she will be re-inspected. If she still doesn't have a uniform that fits, ask for a reason. No excuses, just a reason. If the reason is bullshit, school of the soldier works wonders with recalcitrant swine.
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I know the Army way now is counseling. However, that DOES NOT always mean a paper trail. If shes generally squared away and does her job well, then a verbal counseling can stand (it's still an acceptable form of counseling). Have an actual conversation with her, rather than being one of those NCOs that says "hey you f*cked up, so I'm telling you you're wrong and what you're gonna do to fix it." There are a lot of things that can contribute to this type of decision-making (emotional stability, stress, financial hardship, etc). And as for the weight gain, which was undoubtedly her biggest obstacle, in wearing the uniform for inspection, again, this is a moment to open the dialogue, as there are a LOT of factors, especially with females, soldier or otherwise (yes it matters, even in the Army), that can affect fluctuations in weight and body mass. So open the dialogue with her. "Hey Soldier, I've noticed you've gained enough weight that your uniform no longer fits properly. We have regulations about this, and before it becomes too big an issue, I wanna talk to you about it, see if we can sort out what's causing it and work together to try and mitigate it.
Now, all of this being said, she knew a month in advance and SHOULD HAVE had the fortitude to come and talk to you. However having been a soldier that didn't trust their leadership or that the leadership had my best interest at heart, I can understand the reticence to do so. Sometimes, as a leader (and I've learned this now, as a civilian employer) we sometimes have to open that dialogue ourselves and establish the foundation of trust in our subordinates. Remember, trust is earned, but never assured.
All that being said, if she's set a precedent for being a soup sandwich and is typically more f*cked up than a football bat, then yes, counsel her on paper (just as much to CYA as hers) on the proper wear, maintenance and readiness of ALL Army uniforms, and set up a written plan of action of how to address it within a certain timeline. If she fails, CLOSE THE COUNSELLING annotating her failure to comply. If she succeeds, CLOSE THE COUNSELING with her success. But for the love of whatever holy item you see as praiseworthy, CLOSE OUT HER COUNSELINGS. I cannot tell you how much hell got raised in my last unit when it came to light that not ONE SINGLE counseling, for any soldier, had been closed out with remarks on progress.
Now, all of this being said, she knew a month in advance and SHOULD HAVE had the fortitude to come and talk to you. However having been a soldier that didn't trust their leadership or that the leadership had my best interest at heart, I can understand the reticence to do so. Sometimes, as a leader (and I've learned this now, as a civilian employer) we sometimes have to open that dialogue ourselves and establish the foundation of trust in our subordinates. Remember, trust is earned, but never assured.
All that being said, if she's set a precedent for being a soup sandwich and is typically more f*cked up than a football bat, then yes, counsel her on paper (just as much to CYA as hers) on the proper wear, maintenance and readiness of ALL Army uniforms, and set up a written plan of action of how to address it within a certain timeline. If she fails, CLOSE THE COUNSELLING annotating her failure to comply. If she succeeds, CLOSE THE COUNSELING with her success. But for the love of whatever holy item you see as praiseworthy, CLOSE OUT HER COUNSELINGS. I cannot tell you how much hell got raised in my last unit when it came to light that not ONE SINGLE counseling, for any soldier, had been closed out with remarks on progress.
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG Robert Perrotto - Weight standards for males and females HAVE to be different because our bodies are different. Even among the genders bodies are different. My body type as a 5'10" female isn't the same as another 5'10" female who is younger or older than me - or who hasn't given birth. 100% different. Plus the military's body standards are extremely archaic and ridiculously unhealthy.
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SPC Chris Ison
I am sorry, all of that is sound advice, honestly one of the better responses. But this is not a deficiency of character that needs to be fixed, it is a simple as purchasing a uniform that fits.
All of what you suggested should have happened at the first PT test and weigh in, and if not then the second.
I can only assume that she must have gained enough weight that the uniform doesn't fit, but not enough to have been flagged for height and weight, and she has not failed a PT test, or this would have already been addressed.
I remember in the Guard, My Platoon Sergeant told me, you don't have to just pass the PT test, you have to pass height and weight, which I barely did i was 204, and the curt off was 205. I fixed that issue.
This should never have gotten this far, but the fact that she knew 30 days in advance and did not fix the problem by purchasing a new uniform, to me means she is not taking her own issues seriously. Or she just did not want to spend 500 dollars on a new service uniform.
My money is on the money. I have dealt with female service members, and I have found they have a harder time budgeting money then men, most of the time; Everyone is different but women buy make up, get their nails done, etc. Men tend to buy anew vehicle and then rub it with a diaper cause they can't afford gas.
I always counseled my peers about these issues, sometimes they listened and sometimes they didn't.
All of what you suggested should have happened at the first PT test and weigh in, and if not then the second.
I can only assume that she must have gained enough weight that the uniform doesn't fit, but not enough to have been flagged for height and weight, and she has not failed a PT test, or this would have already been addressed.
I remember in the Guard, My Platoon Sergeant told me, you don't have to just pass the PT test, you have to pass height and weight, which I barely did i was 204, and the curt off was 205. I fixed that issue.
This should never have gotten this far, but the fact that she knew 30 days in advance and did not fix the problem by purchasing a new uniform, to me means she is not taking her own issues seriously. Or she just did not want to spend 500 dollars on a new service uniform.
My money is on the money. I have dealt with female service members, and I have found they have a harder time budgeting money then men, most of the time; Everyone is different but women buy make up, get their nails done, etc. Men tend to buy anew vehicle and then rub it with a diaper cause they can't afford gas.
I always counseled my peers about these issues, sometimes they listened and sometimes they didn't.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SFC (Join to see) - You misunderstand, what the standards are for women is not the point. The point is the individual soldiers weight, and inability to fit into her uniform because of it. I would counsel a male soldier for the exact same infraction. SPC Italino is saying we should make exceptions based on gender to this type of infraction, I disagree with that line of thinking. As for Combat arms, I've already stated my position regarding it many times - if they can do the job to the same standard as the males, by all means, I would stand by their side in a fox hole.
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SPC (Join to see)
Am I the only one that noticed the pompous retired 1SG calling anybody else a disgrace to the Army and the NCO Corps, while simultaneously engaging in textbook Conduct Unbecoming? Hypocrisy is hilarious, it truly is.
And to those of you smearing my advice, bear in mind I DID mention that the soldier's performance patterns were a factor, and advised accordingly. If this soldier was a new soldier at the time (to be fair, I would say within the first 18 months of Service), they may not understand the severity of their actions. Hamstringing said Soldier over it will only decrease morale, and dissuade confidence in unit leadership. This isnt the 80s and 90s. You simply cannot be a tyrant in the military anymore. And behaving this way, particularly this arrogant ass of a 1SG, only shows the type of shitbag, unconcerned, dismissive and detached leadership that is considered acceptable. This makes me truly glad that I am out of the Army and never had leadership this horrific (despite the absolute shit leadership I had on numerous occasions).
And to those of you smearing my advice, bear in mind I DID mention that the soldier's performance patterns were a factor, and advised accordingly. If this soldier was a new soldier at the time (to be fair, I would say within the first 18 months of Service), they may not understand the severity of their actions. Hamstringing said Soldier over it will only decrease morale, and dissuade confidence in unit leadership. This isnt the 80s and 90s. You simply cannot be a tyrant in the military anymore. And behaving this way, particularly this arrogant ass of a 1SG, only shows the type of shitbag, unconcerned, dismissive and detached leadership that is considered acceptable. This makes me truly glad that I am out of the Army and never had leadership this horrific (despite the absolute shit leadership I had on numerous occasions).
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