Posted on Jan 28, 2014
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E 5   spc5 copy2
When I joined the Army we Specialist 4-6 (SP7 had just been discontinued). It provided those Soldiers who had technical expertise and experience the opportunity to progress and earn more pay. However they typically were not "green tab" leaders and were subordinate in rank to a "sergeant" of the same pay grade (SSG & SP6). I've often thought over the years that the Army deleted a program that brought added value to the organization by discontinuing these ranks, as not all Soldiers are not going to be good leaders but should have the opportunity to progress based on their occupational expertise.

Should the Army bring these ranks back?
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Responses: 713
COL Vincent Stoneking
463
462
1
100% agree! I have known many EXCELLENT Soldiers who were great at their MOS duties, but didn't have the desire to lead others. Whether leadership is inherent or learned (it's learned, btw!), they simply didn't want to do it.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>These people should be kept. Their institutional knowledge is priceless. Forcing them out because "everybody is a leader" is shortsighted.&nbsp;</div>
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PV2 Soldier
PV2 (Join to see)
5 y
PV2 (Join to see)
Also, Thank you for your service, Sir.
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SSG Rodney Richter
SSG Rodney Richter
5 y
Keep the specialist ranks. I was in that rank for awhile and then decided I wanted to go to a line platoon in ADA. We had very fine technicians in my air defense units that knew what they were doing but had no motivation to run a line squad or platoon. I had a motivation to progress in the line units.
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SGT Robert Mcfadden
SGT Robert Mcfadden
5 y
I wish I could have been spc5. I wasn't a poor leader but I was lacking in some areas. I could run my team take care of them do the paperwork, I had pldc and bncoc, so I did learn it but I just never wanted to be the guy standing in front of the platoon. Maybe promotion system could be better for spc ranks instead of the unreachable 998 point system.
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SSG Kenneth Ponder
SSG Kenneth Ponder
4 y
USArmy done away with that in late 70's early 80's either move up or be moved out. Brits still allow professional privates, I believe
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CPL Rick Stasny
322
321
1
Bring back the rank. Here is why. The Army spent a lot of money to train a tech geek. Some could not lead the way out of the chow hall. In this case keep him employed, because there is a private firm that sells that system to the government, and will pay the non-leader more. So why not sweeten the pot and keep technically skilled soldiers serving. Just my opinion.
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SGT Intelligence Analyst
SGT (Join to see)
6 y
This is exactly what happened to me. All-Source Intel Analyst who left the Army after eight years in part because there was no actual work for most Analyst MOS outside of deployment or training and another part because of a string of less-than-stellar NCOers from a leader who wanted someone to get promoted IOT take over a PLT SGT slot and was knocking people who didn't want to get promoted into the most overworked position in the Company that had nothing at all to do with Intel. I get that the Army does still need people who want to get more rank and more money and more PT and hooah but it also needs highly skilled technicians and you're culture-shocking us nerds out of the system., and paying civilians to do the jobs you just spent a year training Soldiers to do. I had to leave the Army in order to be able to work as an Intelligence Analyst.
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SSG Dave Johnston
SSG Dave Johnston
6 y
No, because "High Velocity Lead Poisoning" or an IED can put Dufas in a leadership position until he/she can be replaced. Similar to when a REMF of 16 to 18 years shows up to be your PLT. SGT. of a CBT Arms unit[INF, AR, ART], not fun, not fun at all, especially when your breaking in a new LT.
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SSG Dave Johnston
SSG Dave Johnston
6 y
SGT (Join to see) - I was 'Doc' but I do understand, just as much fun as getting a E-6 Bed-pan commando from MEDDAC/MEDCOM assigned to my Aid Station wanting to be the EVAC NCO.
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SGT Eric Knutson
SGT Eric Knutson
>1 y
SSG Dave Johnston - I agree with you on that, I was actually talking to someone about that the other day, I think that the "Branch Immaterial" needs to go away to a degree. Some career fields might be able to handle someone from the outside. but I think everyone would agree, there is zero call for someone who has spent their whole career as an Infantryman or a tanker, to go in and run a hospital. MAYBE in the Admin side, but only maybe. However within the Combat Arms, at the higher ranks, decisions that you make will DEPEND upon your knowing what you are talking about, which only happens when you are dealing with it every day, year in year out. We can deal with the 2Lt, but even then, the crossed rifles are all they have know, (I said they because we do have a small number of females graduating FT Benning now) but that being said, the furthest I think any of them could be as of when I am writing this is O3 and POSSIBLY a High Speed O4. but, while I do wish those ladies good luck in their career. I also heard somewhere that a Female MG was given a Division (1st I THINK) and she does NOT have the background to run a Combat Division. I have also seen a CSM take over an INF Bn, and he had come from being Ord I think I heard. and the unit fell apart pretty quickly. (if I remember it was back in the early 90's out at Ft Ord, a buddy who PCS'd there relayed it back to us in the 101st).
Back to the original thread though, we all know people who are cracker jacks at their jobs, and can continue, and DESIRE to continue what they are doing, but get pushed into a leadership position and they fall apart. or you come into a new unit and find that you have people who not fit for the positions they hold, and are even unhappy with their positions. But at the same time we need to cull out those who are ROAD (Retired on Active Duty) and just there to collect a paycheck until they qualify for a permanent paycheck.
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MAJ Sitz Randy
75
75
0
<p>After 26 1/2 years of service, I have met plenty of folks that were great at their MOS but never figured out how to motivate and lead soldiers.&nbsp;There is a distinct difference in being great at your vocation and being great at leading.&nbsp; Some can get it done...for them give them the stripes.&nbsp; For those that can't I am in favor of letting them follow and not lead.&nbsp; Not sure why we seem to think everyone can be a leader but not everyone can be a pilot, medic, or pick another MOS.&nbsp; You have to meet certain qualifications and standards...but we promote just about everyone to the rank of&nbsp;Sargent and put them in leadership positions.&nbsp; When I was in Korea (95-96)&nbsp;as a newly promoted 2LT PA after crossing over from E-7, I witnessed first hand the migration of mindset that all Sargent's should be able to fill leadership roles.&nbsp; My Section Sargent came from the Hospital Ward and had no flipping clue about leading line medics...none!!&nbsp; In the words of Jase from Duck Dynasty "it was a disaster."</p><p><br></p><p>Please understand that this is my opinion/2 cents...don't hate!!&nbsp; LOL</p>
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SP5 Ronald R Glaeseman
SP5 Ronald R Glaeseman
>1 y
A word or two on leadership from my one tour in the US Army. I was trained in electronics at Fr. Monmouth, NJ and was subsequently sent to an 8 man radio station in northern France. When I arrived, the station was commanded by a Spc-6. He was airborne ranger trained to be the radio guy on a Special Forces A-team. From the beginning, he let us know what was expected and what the punishments would be if we failed. A year later, he was relieved by a MSgt, and made assistant site commander. This NCO proceeded to decimate morale. He did not know the equipment, even a cursory knowledge. His leadership skills were non-existent and he was deliberately divisive. The point being that it matters little what's on your sleeve. It's what's inside the uniform that counts.
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CSM Charles Hayden
CSM Charles Hayden
>1 y
MAJ Sitz Randy I must add; LTC Stephen C. has advised me that Knoxville Car dealer Harry Lane passed away in Knoxville, TN a few years ago, his estate was in the $80,000,000 range. As a ‘car’ guy, he was Good!!
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CSM Frank Supinski
CSM Frank Supinski
>1 y
I believe that they need to be brought back. Not everyone is cut out to lead and it is time that we come to that realization. With the new Army STEP program a lot of Soldiers wroth great technical skills are not seeking advancement. Also I believe that as NC OI PMD is trying to mirror Officer PME that we have oat sight of what we want NCO's to be.
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SGT Mark Saint Cyr
SGT Mark Saint Cyr
>1 y
The other thing that bothers me...with soft stripe being forced to be hard stripe and then get up or get out.... some folks who are decent leaders, can't get promoted, because that can't dot every I or cross every T, because they are too busy doing their jobs. If the non-leaders weren't being forced up, you might get real leaders in some spots, instead of people who know just enough of the right stuff to get promoted, but can't actually manage anyone.
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