Posted on Oct 16, 2016
PO1 Officer Candidate
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
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GySgt Kenneth Pepper
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It must be nipped in the bud quickly and without hesitation. Having had a few minutes to think about it, here goes....
PFC Shitbird and his team leader stand fast. All others fall out and carry on.

Have PFC Dipshit stand by while I ensure his team leader knows what my expectations are; "Instant obedience to lawful orders. Period. Any other answer is unacceptable. The fact that PFC Dipshit thinks it is okay to open his trap is a direct reflection of your leadership. Take a look at how you are leading and determine how this could happen."

To PFC Dipshit; "If you have decided to end your time in the military you have chosen a sure-fire method. If you do not comply with lawful orders, it will eventually end with you on a bus headed for home. But only after spending the next few weeks/months becoming the example of what not to do. If that is what you want, we will go there. If not, get your ass moving on what you were ordered to do."
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TSgt Ralph Schloss
TSgt Ralph Schloss
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SPC Kenneth Koerperich - By the Gunny's definition you are a troll. And I'll stand by my previous comments. You define a butt hurt snowflake as well. Don't waste my time by replying.
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SPC Kenneth Koerperich
SPC Kenneth Koerperich
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TSgt Ralph Schloss - Yup, shitbag! You stand by the "SNOWFLAKE" method...As I said, you would have been piss pounded out of the service during my time. Your way WAS NOT the way things got done... Woodline training all the time....Squad blanket parties abounded! You remind me of the 2 douches I work with, snowflakes to the core, shammers who got through the service, neither deployed, yet they both have 100% disability....LIARS is what they are....mooching off the system.....I don't truck with that! Good riddance to rubbish like you....
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PO1 Joseph Collins
PO1 Joseph Collins
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SGT Tony Clifford - ....perhaps they already didn’t like the E2 (asshat) and were hoping he would mouth off and get himself killed....
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SGT Shane Serna
SGT Shane Serna
16 d
Pretty much agree with all but the PFC dipshit part. I’d have you in my office with First Sergeant if I heard you respond to any soldier of any rank that way.
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CPL(P) UH-60 Helicopter Repairer
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Edited 3 y ago
Praise in public, punish in private. "You stand fast after formation." Give him a chance to explain insubordination. Mandatory counseling. If he is defiant in private after getting the chance then burn him. ART15. Sometimes people are defiant because something happened and they feel out of control so they try to take it wherever they can no matter how inappropriate. Sometimes a wife cheated or a parent died. Sometimes the hospital calls and congratulates you on having cancer. To outright burn a Joe without gathering the facts is irresponsible and we would want someone breathing down our neck to take that extra moment to consider what might be going on too. If it's nothing more than attitude and a shitty personality then by all means light that dead Christmas tree and know you probably saved lives downrange.
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GySgt Kenneth Pepper
GySgt Kenneth Pepper
3 mo
I'm curious as to the origin of your belief that an NCO cannot issue a "direct order"? NCCOs issue direct orders every single day. The legality of an order is pretty simple and I hope we all understand that.
The barrack's lawyer stance that only officers can issue a direct order is a pretty old one, but is still as invalid today as it was when it originated.
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SFC Rick LaFace
SFC Rick LaFace
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SPC Chris Ison - Every order an NCO gives a subordinate is a direct order. It must be proven unlawful at the next higher level of leadership or in a court of law in the event that the chain supports the NCO. That's if you allow common sense to come into play. Troops that think they can decide what orders to follow are headed down a dangerous path.
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SPC Chris Ison
SPC Chris Ison
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I was taught that only commissioner officer give direct orders, this comes form the fact that they are COMMISSIONED officer and as such have been granted a specific TYPE of authority.

However, upon research it seems there is no such thing as a direct order PERIOD.

So, thanks for "setting this barracks lawyer strait". You need to learn what the difference is too though, right?



Article 92 reads: “Any person subject to this chapter who—

(1) violates any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by a member of the armed forces and fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
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SGT Rich Blackaby Bsd
SGT Rich Blackaby Bsd
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There IS a difference between a direct order and a lawful order. Think about that for a quick second.
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PO1 David Gibbens
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I can speak from experience on this one. On my first boat( yes I'm a submariner) as an E3 I was made Deck Div LPO, AKA Leading Seaman. While passing out the day's job assignments, I was told "f@#k no" by one of the new seaman. I was shocked to say the least. I went to the 1st LT, a TMCS, and informed him of my situation. He told me in no uncertain terms to take said individual to the back of the work barge and show him the error of his ways. I did so, physically. The young man never questioned me again.
Now, before everyone jumps on me, let me give you my opinion on this matter. This was the late '70s. We were still in the Viet Nam mind set. However; when did the military go from being a gung ho military organization to a job? "Ask him what's wrong". Really?! When you're at 400ft and there's a fire in the Torpedo Room, or you're someplace where people are shooting at you are you really going to take no as an answer?? Or are you going to kick him in his ass, and get him motivated to move in the right direction? I spent 20 years in the Submarine Force and I've seen people come and go. And the ones that went were sent haze gray and underway on surface ships. Which, BTW, was the same as failing. Next time someone tells a senior NCO he doesn't want to do something, point out that the contract he signed doesn't say anything about liking it. He (or she) doesn't have to like it. They just have to do it. STS1(SS) USN, Ret
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PO1 Joseph Collins
PO1 Joseph Collins
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty - “in the fan room...no one can hear you scream”....
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty
PO1 Kevin Dougherty
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LOL, YUP! From one who would know ...
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TSgt Heavy Equipment Operator
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It has gotten to the point in most Army units now to where (if you follow regulations to the letter) you can do very little besides paperwork to correct Soldiers. I have always tried to explain to younger troops that paperwork is significantly worse in the long run than getting smoked is. You end up with individuals who could care less, and the rare soldier who would rather receive some sort of "sweaty" punishment. I always preferred pushups to paperwork myself.
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PO1 Joseph Collins
PO1 Joseph Collins
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SFC Terry Strauss - ....”roller”?...who uses rollers?...back in my day it was a brush...roller sissies....
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