Posted on Aug 18, 2017
SPC Ilya Arkadiev
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11B Infantry seem to be MOS that have a lot of similarities with 19D counterparts. While 19Ds perform recon for mainly armored units, they still at times go on foot and perform similar tasks such as route clearance and raids. However modern warfare seems to be changing and new technology seem to be slowly pushing boots on the ground out as essential need in favor of drones and other recon devices.
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MSG Tom Earley
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Edited >1 y ago
When I came in the Army in 1982 many of the SSGs, and our SFC Platoon Sergeant all wore CIBs from Vietnam. That is because during the Vietnam War Scouts were 11Ds. Some time later the Army made 11Ds part of the Armor Branch and they became 19Ds. I think the MOS should stay, but I think it should belong to the Infantry Branch as 11Ds. 19Ds have always had more in common with the Infantry than the Armor. In a light unit 19Ds have wheels, the same as Infantry Scouts, or the use their boots to get around. In a Mechanized unit they ride a Bradley just like the Mechanized Infantry. Scouts need to be a dedicated force focused on Recon, but should be moved back, and become 11Ds again.
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MSG Tom Earley
MSG Tom Earley
3 y
SFC (Join to see) - When I was a Scout Platoon Sergeant in Alpha Troop 3/4 Cavalry, 25th Infantry Division (L) all the Light Infantry Battalions had their 11B Scout Platoons in their HHC, and yes they had turtle shell HMMVEES the same as us. Of course this was from 1996 - 1999. Like us they did not always use those vehicles. It depended like us on the Recon mission. Sometimes we used Helos to get there, some times HMMVEES, and always boots once their.
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SFC (Other / Not listed)
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MSG Tom Earley - This is absolutely a false statement, as I served as a Light Infantry Scout for two units from 1996 to 2003 and we most certainly did not have "turtle shell" HMMWVs....or any vehicles for that matter...assigned to us. Matter of fact, the only "turtle shell" HMMWVs assigned to a Light Infantry Battalion during that time period were assigned to the anti-tank company (the Delta and sometimes Echo companies which were filled with 11Hs at the time and not 11Bs). I am not saying you did not run into infantrymen in "turtle shells", but if they had "turtle shells" they absolutely were not light infantry scouts.
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SFC David Xanten
SFC David Xanten
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MSG Tom Earley from March 1967 to March 1967, I was with B Troop 3/4 Cav in RVN. We were an Armored Cavalry Squadron made up of M-113 and M-48’s. The PC’s had 11E, 11B and 11D’s. The Tanks were 11E and all were Cavalry. I have always thought because of the make up of a Armored Cavalry Squadron, it was the best Combat Unit because it could do almost any task assigned. We had Tanks, infantry, light Artillery and Helicopters including Gunships and LRRP. No other Unit in the Army has that kind of Firepower.
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MSG Tom Earley
MSG Tom Earley
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SFC (Join to see) - Thanks for the comment, but we trained along side the Division LRSD, and with a number of Light Infantry Battalion Scout Platoons. I guess they must have borrowed all those turtle shell HMMWVs they were driving, LOL. Yes, they did a lot of dismounted Ops, and may not have deployed for training a mounted unit every time, but a Scout Platoon must be able to move farther, and faster than the unit it is supporting. Not every Light Battalion in the Army had the exact same MTOE just as not every Light Div Cav was the same. Eg= 2-17 Cav, 101st had all Air Troops. They were the only Light Div Cav in the Army not to have a ground recon troop. Way back in the day in the 7th Infantry Division Light, the Division Commander wanted his ground recon troop from his Div Cav to be Airborne just like his LRSD. So 7th ID had the only Airborne Light Cav Troop in a non Airborne Division in the entire Army.
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SPC Erich Guenther
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Edited >1 y ago
In my opinion, I have not figured out if it is the Army or other services but someone in the Pentagon does not think 11B's are smart enough for tasks they can easily handle. I would not stop at 19D I would also include the Stinger Anti-Aircraft missile which was designed for Infantry to use vs a seperate MOS. Little to no extra skills to learn how to fire a Stinger but someone on one of the Ivory thrones in the Pentagon wants to keep that weapon system out of the hands of 11 Series. Don't ask me why, I was never at that level to figure out what is going through their heads.............I think a seperate MOS for the Stinger, which even the Muhadeen can handle in Afghanistan.........is also very shortsighted.
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To fire a stinger you have to know about the weapon system, which requires a security clearance. It is not an easy weapon system to use and is complicated enough that to be proficient enough in it, it has to be your primary job like a 11C specializes in mortars. It makes no sense that a guy who specializes in air defense should be in an 11 series MOS. Their mission planning and special operational considerations would make them poorly suited to be Infantry 11Zs because their specialty is too far out of scope with infantry skills.
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SPC Erich Guenther
SPC Erich Guenther
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SFC (Join to see) - Interesting, I did not need a security clearence to be taught how to fire it in 1985 as well as sit through the indoor target qualification test. Unless they greatly complicated the weapon system since then........took maybe 10 min to learn how to arm and fire. Probably another hour and a half to practice and qualify with it on a indoor range.
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SPC Erich Guenther - The same could be said about any weapon system. Here is your 10 minute class, now run immediately over to the trainer and qualify...good job you are now a super star on X weapon system. Except you really aren't and it is a perishable skill. You are telling me that the one time you got a 10 minute class on the Stinger you were proficient enough to go through the procedure to consistently employ the weapon system at an expert level? If memory serves me right, a lot of guys who don't regularly use the Stinger screw up one particular aspect of it. Then there is the whole issue of planning an Air Defense plan and a host of other skills. By the way, I am also a former 11B who learned to use the Stinger.
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SGM Erik Marquez
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What you suggests brings to mind the saying "Jack of all trades, master of none"
Like combining 11M and 11B, we took a carrier field where a dedicated demographic could be come experts in there equipment, training, tactics and knowledge of deployment needs and watered it down with lumping them in with 11B..operating as a 11B is completely different then operating as an armored fighting vehicle crewmen..The vehicle dismounts can be cross trained easily the Crew and your 11B sqd leader not so much.

The same holds true for a 19D...yes, like an 88M, 92G, 31V, a 19D may occasionally be used as a dismount, a mounted wheeled vehicle patrol, defensive position member... the expertise needed to be a 19D at the highest level of training for all duty positions is not something you can master in a few weeks when you PCS to a new unit and suddenly go from 11B SQD LDR to mounted or dismounted previously coded 19D position.
Likewise, the SSG who was a 19D yesterday, is woefully unprepared to be a 11B the day he shoes up at his new duty station..
Both can succeed in the new job tasks, but neither will be an expert in the field, they may become competent (most do), but is that what we want in our leaders? If thats all we want, "good enough"
buy more body bags, future generations of military folks are going to need them.
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