Posted on Dec 10, 2020
SPC Equipment Records And Parts Specialist
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CPT Platoon Trainer
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This is a great example of what the Army is trying to move towards. The Army is trying to identify those that have the potential to lead and the capacity to manage. The first thing you should do is counsel all of your new subordinates, even the SGT. You should let them know that you were placed in this position and you are going to ensure that you will take this responsibility seriously. When you speak to the SGT I would ensure you leverage his experience and let him know that you will work with him for the success of the team. You want to avoid having a disgruntled SGT. That can turn toxic quickly.
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SSG Brian MacBain
SSG Brian MacBain
3 mo
CPT (Join to see) - Squad leader is a position not rank. That E4 cannot counsel nor rate an E5. That is like a 1st LT counseling a CPT. Goes back to the CW4 statement that said E5 needs to be moved to another squad with a senior E5 or E6. As for the him, the E4, he should get up with his PSG and figure out the solution that would work. We do not know the full story here so well all are making assumptions. If I was that E4, I would counsel everyone in my squad, minus him. I would tell him/her that I cannot due to rank and inform him/her that myself and the PSG will have a meeting with you to discuss the situation. If I was the PSG, I would inform squad leader that I will have a meeting with the SGT with the squad leader and tell both of them that if I cannot place the SGT in another squad with a senior E5 or E6, that I as the PSG will do the counseling on the SGT with feedback from the squad leader.
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SSG Brian G.
SSG Brian G.
3 mo
SSG Brian MacBain - Yes, Squad leader is a position, not a rank. However in that position that SQL is a leader of the squad and thus all those in the squad, regardless of rank are his or her subordinates. A LEADER can always counsel a subordinate, rank is not a factor in this and never has been. That E-5 is subordinate by position to the E-4. Rank plays no part in that until it comes to the point of issuing orders. It's a no brainer.
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SSG Brian MacBain
SSG Brian MacBain
3 mo
SSG Brian G. - I hear what you are saying, but have to disagree. An E-4 cannot counsel an E-5. However, if an E-4 is the squad leader over that E5, that tells me and should tell you that E5 is a puntz and should not be an E5. That will show in the E5 NCOER under leadership. That E5 should be asking to be moved out of that squad. It is like a CPT in a Command position (CO CDR) cannot counsel a Major assigned to the company (HQs company where you have BN Staff). However, it could be that E5 is over weight, failed a PT test and the Command removed E5 from a leadership position, but that command should also place that E5 to another squad that has a E5/E6 as squad leader. But I do stand on that an E4 cannot counsel E5. As you said, It's no brainer.
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SSG Brian G.
SSG Brian G.
3 mo
SSG Brian MacBain - Yes they can counsel an E-5. They hold the position of authority of squad leader over that E-5. Now they do not out rank that E-5 but that E-4 can absolutely counsel that E-5. It is positional authority. Now he cannot rate that E-5 as that falls to a person senior in rank to the E-5.
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CPT Staff Officer
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I probably would have moved the non squad leader SGT under a SSG, or elsewhere. No one is doing you any favors by setting up this situation. I'd be furious as a SGT sitting across from a SPC getting counseled. Why has that even happened? How is this SGT looked upon by the rest of the unit? He must be pretty low drag to not have been given the courtesy of being placed in another squad with an NCO running it.

Not knowing the dynamics of your working environment I don't have much to offer. Manage by counselings. That's how army does it.

I could see a SGT be someone who's just happy to have a job, and just riding the wave where it takes him. So it might be a non issue.

I could see the SGT also force you to address him from the At Ease position if he's not happy about the situation, and do so in a public way to degrade your leadership position.

Who put you in your squad leader position? Your Platoon SGT? Your Platoon Leader? Does the 1SG know? Who has your back?
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SGT Ivory Brown
SGT Ivory Brown
2 mo
It happens. When I was a E-5 I've been selected for duties over plenty of E-6, and once a E-7 by multiple 1SGTS but always military customs and courtesy are applied. Never easy but at the end of the day if you can work together they get the nice Ncoer, you get the experience and respect from your chain of command, peers and subordinates. Sometimes people slip through the cracks or have been out of there mos they aren't proficient at there jobs and a lower enlisted just has the experience. Its that simple
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CPT Staff Officer
CPT (Join to see)
2 mo
SGT Ivory Brown - I personally think the military abuses this practice. Otherwise, in the civilian sector I simply quit employers and get paid the correct range and title for the job I'm doing, and folks of higher ranks and pay get released or get jobs of reduced pay relative for their contribution.
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SGT Ivory Brown
SGT Ivory Brown
2 mo
CPT (Join to see) I loved the responsible and the challenges. When I retired my company lost a retention nco, Eo rep and section Sgt , talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.
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CPT Staff Officer
CPT (Join to see)
2 mo
SGT Ivory Brown - I know what you mean. I had two soldiers with military drivers license that were multiple pages of qualified vehicles. One ETS'd and the other transferred. POOF now there's no one to drive the forklifts, wrecker and large PLS's.
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CWO3 Us Marine
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Don't manage, lead. Professionalism dictates he respect your billet if not your rank, and you should respect their rank to a certain point. It's up to you to change that, by promotion or by your actions. Anything else should be addressed privately and tactfully between you two. Only one alpha per pack.
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SFC James Cameron
SFC James Cameron
3 mo
Well said, Gunner!
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CWO3 Us Marine
CWO3 (Join to see)
3 mo
SFC James Cameron - That's a disservice to the real Gunners but thanks. SF
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